Help me not suck.

[Ryan H 0]

Recently I started a new campaign flying for Jasta 6, Right when they got the first Albatros (late 1916?) I've never flown for "the other side" before but I do like the way the Albatros flys. First time I set out on a flight I got ripped apart by flak; bad luck I figgured. Tried again, new pilot, same Jasta, same time. First flight, Torn apart by the damn crumpets near our front lines; frustrating. Tried again, new pilot, same Jasta, same time. Again, ripped apart by enemy fighters; you can only call it bad luck so many times!! I'm starting to get the vibe that I'm not very good at this game.. NO simulator !!!

 

Per Olham's advice in another thread, this is not a game.. this is a simulator, so I'm starting to fly it like one; calculated decisions, dont just go rushing in guns blazing. I'm still getting shot down regularly. I recently turned off labels, and the tac. and I'm not warping either and I have to say, turning those 3 things off makes this simulator a totaly different monster! Its a lot harder when you actually have to look around to find the enemy .

 

So my question is this: Can anyone offer any advice on how to stop getting killed? What year/months should I start in? What squadron/jasta? I'd like to get some hours behind my pilot but I'd also like a little action too. Do you all fly with traffic density on high? Any other general help/tips/tricks that you have learned would be greatly appreciated. Also, how long can you hold the trigger down before you get a jam? Thanks for the help everyone!

 

BTW: does anyone else find it impossible to climb as fast as your wingmen when they climb to attack?

Edited September 17, 2009 by Ryan H

[Olham 164]

Hi, Ryan

 

First of all: read and memorise the "Dicta Boelke" (it's in the sticky "Tips and Tricks"); and follow it.

 

It took me some time to get really good with some craft - you can't expect to be an "instant ace".

 

The time you picked was alright, and the fighter too. You may just need to learn to handle it better.

The earliest Albatros DII is I think in Jasta 2, Bertincourt, September 1916.

 

Now, make sure to achieve some good altitude, before you cross the lines - 5.000 feet or more.

When the enemy always comes in higher, go higher too next time.

 

When you fly over dense enemy Flak (airfields, front line, towns, army camps, balloon bases etc.),

don't fly straight! Fly zigzag course.

In combat, don't go down too low over the lines.

 

Flying without TAC is hard, but may also avoid many enemies, simply because you don't see them.

I have flight density on medium.

If you fly in an elite Jasta, like Jasta 2 or Jasta 11 for example, the other pilots may care much better

for enemy fighters - but also they won't leave you any to shoot down.

 

The problem to catch up with your AI pilots was described by several others too. I always fly as leader,

so I don't have that problem. You could warp; that should bring you up to them.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Olham

[itifonhom 6]

I'm a newbie too and I suck! But I learn! This sim has nothing to do with getting into a plane and fight. It's about surviving! Be selective and patient. Choose your opponent and try to let nobody to choose you. If you feel unsure or threatened just run! It's not a shame, you will come another day. Try to get lonely two seaters and avoid furballs. My rule of thumb lately is: Medals are decorated with white feathers!!!

 

 

itifonhom

[Olham 164]

Don't give up, chaps!

I was lucky enough to get earlier training in the much softer Phase 2, and then, when BHaH came out,

it still wasn't as tough, as it is now.

So you come into it the hard way - or you put the settings some steps easier.

 

But remember: Udet perhaps shot down 1 craft every 15 sorties! Manfred von Richthofen ONLY attacked,

when he was sure to win the fight - all other occasions, he would have left.

 

The rest is: training! You just have to stand up more often than you are knocked down.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Olham

[deadangle 0]

Good advise from olham. I am still getting swatted out of the sky by AA. The longest streak I had was just under 6 hours. I just delete deceased pilot start another and try again and try not to make the same mistakes. I will not attack railyards anymore even if they are the objective. WWI aircraft are just not suited to ground attack IMHO.

[Bullethead 12]

"Sucking at OFF" is a relative term, different for everybody. Most folks define "sucking" as "not fun", but the problem is that everybody has a different definition of "fun", which is why "sucking" is different for everybody. So the 1st thing you need to do to not suck is to first define what "fun" means to you.

 

Do you enjoy really intense combat until you die? Do you enjoy skirting the edge of the meatgrinder and picking off the sick, lame, and lazy around the fringes? Are you of the "press on regardless" style? Or something else entirely?

 

At the bottom line, it's not how many kills you get, or how long you live, it's how much fun you have. Personally, I don't care how often I die, or how far along towards 17 hours I am, as long as I had fun doing it.

 

 

[deadangle 0]

"Sucking at OFF" is a relative term, different for everybody. Most folks define "sucking" as "not fun", but the problem is that everybody has a different definition of "fun", which is why "sucking" is different for everybody. So the 1st thing you need to do to not suck is to first define what "fun" means to you.

 

Do you enjoy really intense combat until you die? Do you enjoy skirting the edge of the meatgrinder and picking off the sick, lame, and lazy around the fringes? Are you of the "press on regardless" style? Or something else entirely?

 

At the bottom line, it's not how many kills you get, or how long you live, it's how much fun you have. Personally, I don't care how often I die, or how far along towards 17 hours I am, as long as I had fun doing it.

 

 

 

Vey good Point Bullethead, At least for myself I really enjoy this sim because of the difficulty

[Dej 17]

Chaps, there was a time when Olham woud attack everything in sight, I believe, but OFF has tempered even his impetuosity! You do have to pick your fights very carefully indeed. Superiority in everything - height, numbers, manoeuvrabilty - still does not guarantee victory.

 

Olham didn't expand on his good advice about always leading which has two vital features a) you can control your wingmen better - read Olham's thread on this - my wingies save my neck on many an occasion leaving me genuinely sad to lose them b) you can stick with the first flight, which is where the aces are if you've any in your unit.

 

My own advice is also twofold: a) avoid, nay, SHUN target-fixation, it WILL kill you; b) if hit, AT ALL, get out, fast... shove everything in a corner and RUN AWAY! For the former, a WW2 ace combat pilot's advice is good 'never fly straight and level in the combat area for more than thirty seconds' - Adolphus 'Sailor' Malan, RAF. And that 'thirty seconds' includes that last deadly little bit of time you think you need to nail that enemy machine that's so almost under your guns.

 

'Air-fighting in a nutshell'

[Rickitycrate 10]

Look, look and look some more. Situational awareness, do you keep an eye open all around you? Like Dej said don't get fixated on one target. Do him some damage if you can but don't chase too long when there are enemies at hand. Fly with TAC or any other tools you may want. No need to be macho when you are first learning. Do you have TrackIR? It sure does help the situational awareness. Fly as high as you can manage at all times. Higher elevation than the enemy is a great advantage it also helps in decreasing the accuracy of the AA. As mentioned before use your wingmen. Always lead, select in workshop. You will not win the war. You may survive for awhile. There are many choices in workshop to fit your current skills or to make it challenging. Make the selections to suit yourself and have fun. Know this, we long time fliers have a large stack of dead dudes piled up around our pc's. We got better and are getting better. Practice, practice. Keep at it and you will improve.

Best wishes.

[carrick58 23]

Welcome Ryan H to the meat grinder. Everyone already pointed out the main facts about staying alive in OFF campaign. The one that killes me the most often is the TAC if u fly with it and I do. Always expect the Bad guys will be above you and mostly behind U with that said , You will see awsome views of ur oppositions aircraft diving on u guns blasting Tac a Tac a Tac a.

 

[Baldric 42]

I've only just begun to 'leave' enemies alone-- when I first started playing earlier this month, my DiD pilots would go after everything , and naturally I'd have my 'stupid' moments and get a pilot killed/captured trying to come to the aid of a comrade, or get too low and die from ground fire. Worse for me was engaging a group of enemy fighters and completely forgetting Dicta Boelke- something I've used for years in other combat flight sims like IL2-- and losing my best pilot. I was starting to feel quite pants at this sim, but in reading some of the battle reports above, or reading about others adventures with the game, I'm doing just fine for the length of time I've been able to enjoy this sim. I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with BH about the degree of suckage being relative. :)

 

I'm still campaigning at the end of 1916, early 1917 for Jasta 1, and my newest best pilot (not on Siggi's list) has got a bunch of missions flown- all in crappy weather, with 1 confirmed kill, 1 pending claim, almost 8 hours of survival, and hasn't lost a wingman yet (knock wood). And three flights of enemies over two missions, all 'ignored' as they had too much advantage and by the time we gained enough altitude and started searching the cloudbanks we had missed them (playing/trialling Tac off) Its just taken me a bit of time to settle in to what the sim offers campaignwise, and to leave the Stachelitis behind. Personally I wouldn't worry about 'suckage' as I haven't seen anyone here judge anyone else and they're very supportive no matter the skill level-- makes for a great comfort level which makes play even better :)

[Firecage 1]

Well Im very new to OFF as well(less than 2 weeks now) and if I get any pilot past 4 hrs I feel I am doing someting right. I have lost more than a fair share to flak hits. I am really learning MVRs approach to fights.... only get in a fight if your sure to win. The AI in this sim seems to really like to catch you fixating on a target. At the point where your sure your about to fill the enemy with lead you will want to look behind you because theres a high chance his friend is about to do the same to you

 

One thing Im sure of is the idea of leading the flight and being in the aces groups pays off well. AI wingmen do listen more and have saved my ass many times now.

 

That being said .... even when I die im having fun and can't wait to get the next ace wanna be in the air....

 

GL and keep up the good work.

[Olham 164]

Dej, "Sailor" Malan - gee, that struck a memory bell - was the first character I flew in a very early

flight sim, where you didn't have 3D models, but only pixelated views of the craft from various angles.

How far it all got from then (1995?)

 

The big advantage here for all of us: we can die a thousand times, and learn from it.

And you're better prepared: You will!

[Dej 17]

Dej, "Sailor" Malan - gee, that struck a memory bell - was the first character I flew in a very early

flight sim, where you didn't have 3D models, but only pixelated views of the craft from various angles.

How far it all got from then (1995?)

 

The big advantage here for all of us: we can die a thousand times, and learn from it.

And you're better prepared: You will!

 

Lucasart's 'Their Finest Hour' by any chance? I played that obsessively, renamed all the squadron memebers after friends and family, etc. One of the first sims where I 'felt' the loss of a squadron mate.

[Ryan H 0]

Some GREAT advice here, thanks all! I'll take it to heart as I soldier on in my campaign. Always lead seems like a good bit of advice, but a few questions: If you stick with the first flight will your wingmen follow you or the planed route? Also, does the first flight with the aces in it fly the same mission plan as the second flight? Lastly; what are the controls for the AI? Do I have to tell them to attack a specific target or can I just push a "turn 'em loose!" button? Thanks again for all the help guys!

[Ryan H 0]

Well, I just finished a mission (dead) where I made myself the flight leader, and I stayed with the first flight, I figgured with 7 albatroses in the air, we'd be pretty safe. Everything seemed normal, we were on a balloon attacking mission, we got about halfway and the first flight took a sharp turn to head away from our flight path, I followed. We flew for about 15 more minutes, we came across an enemy airfield, the two ace pilots decided it would be an awesome idea to dive down low (under 200 feet) across the airfield, I was stupid enough to follow. I figgured "they're ace pilots, they know what they're doing", the machine gun nests lit up like a christmas tree! firing at them, me, my wingmen, everyone. I got shot up but not to bad; after we pulled out of the dive we were attacked by some Aircos, we all started to dance (right over the airfield) and the moral of the story is that I got shot to bits by some "Sir. What-his-arse" ace and now I'm dead.

 

So what I'm wondering is why did the A.I. aces think it would be great to swoop down (for no apparent reason) over an enemy airfield, then start a fight right then and there?! Sounds like suicide to me!

 

(dont take this as me being mad, It just happened so I'm a bit heated/frustrated, thats all)

 

 

[Dej 17]

Well, I just finished a mission (dead) where I made myself the flight leader, and I stayed with the first flight, I figgured with 7 albatroses in the air, we'd be pretty safe. Everything seemed normal, we were on a balloon attacking mission, we got about halfway and the first flight took a sharp turn to head away from our flight path, I followed. We flew for about 15 more minutes, we came across an enemy airfield, the two ace pilots decided it would be an awesome idea to dive down low (under 200 feet) across the airfield, I was stupid enough to follow. I figgured "they're ace pilots, they know what they're doing", the machine gun nests lit up like a christmas tree! firing at them, me, my wingmen, everyone. I got shot up but not to bad; after we pulled out of the dive we were attacked by some Aircos, we all started to dance (right over the airfield) and the moral of the story is that I got shot to bits by some "Sir. What-his-arse" ace and now I'm dead.

 

So what I'm wondering is why did the A.I. aces think it would be great to swoop down (for no apparent reason) over an enemy airfield, then start a fight right then and there?! Sounds like suicide to me!

 

(dont take this as me being mad, It just happened so I'm a bit heated/frustrated, thats all)

 

The aerodrome attack was probably Flight 1's mission. The advice is to stick with Flight 1 for protection, but you're not obligated to follow them in I tend to stay with them only so long as our routes are mutually beneficial then break off for my own target. About 60% of the time (I'd guess) we're in roughly the same area so it works.

 

Olham's Wingman Advice has all the AI commands and how to use 'em, with some useful additions by Bullethead too... HERE

[Ryan H 0]

The aerodrome attack was probably Flight 1's mission. The advice is to stick with Flight 1 for protection, but you're not obligated to follow them in I tend to stay with them only so long as our routes are mutually beneficial then break off for my own target. About 60% of the time (I'd guess) we're in roughly the same area so it works.

 

Olham's Wingman Advice has all the AI commands and how to use 'em, with some useful additions by Bullethead too... HERE

 

Sounds great, thanks! I just wasnt sure if flight 1 had the same mission or not (makes sense that they'd be different though).