mig-23 Questions

[+lindr2 19]

I' working on big mig-23 pack, wanna make all serial produtction models, i have enough info about homeuse models, but i need more info about export versions:

 

note: i have Mig-23 database, Mig-23 S/N Structure is FFF MM SS NNN

 

were:

 

FFF - Factory code, 039 for M,MF,ML,MLA,MLA,P, but 296 for MLD some MLA...

 

MM - model number 02 for M,MF,MS, 03 for ML,MLA, 06 for P, 32 for BN

 

SS - Serie {block number}

 

NNN - plane number, however some sources used SSN as serie, {0390617079 MiG-23P, Block 170, plane 79}

 

example: 039 02 13 865 -> Factory Number 39, M -family (M,MF,MS), Block 13, plane number 8-65.

 

Q1: MF armanent: i read what polish Mig-23MF's (Blocks 17,21,22,24) cant use Kh-23 & R-60, Romanian MF's Block 17 can use kh-23 but not R-60, i need more info about WP MF's & indian MF's loadout...

 

Q2: ML or MLA? after analize S/N's i found what CSSR & DDR & Iraqi & Syrie & Bulgarian ML is MLA, because it's S/N get block number more that 19... i'm sure that Block 08 or above is ML, 19 or greater is MLA, blocks 15,17,18 is P..

 

Q: i need to know Cuban & Angola "ML' Serial numbers... maybe some others... for check it's version.

 

Q3: anoter ML family versions

 

ML family is: {Factory codes}

 

32-12 - ML : Sapfir-23ML radar

 

32-12A - MLA : Ametist N003 radar

 

32-14 - P : Ametist N006 radar

 

32-18 - MLD : Ametist-2 N008 radar

 

32-22 - MLAE2 or MLA2 : Ametist-2 N008 radar, but no aerodynamic updates (for Bulgaria,1985), also named MLD is some books, but Bulgaria got 'pure' MLD only in 1992

 

32-19 - MLAE, downgrated 32-22 with N-033 radar, but with CM & other MLD avionics, for Iraq,Syria

 

note: i read, that some MLA,MLD have VP-23 ( 23mm chaff/freares, 12 items) in centerline pylon...

 

Q: i need more info about 32-22, 32-19 ...

 

P.S. if you need SN database (BD.xls, on russian), just ask...

 

for example: CzSSR MiG-23BN's, plane number decals -> last 4 digits

 

0393209138

0393209139

0393209140

0393209142

0393209545

0393209548

0393209549

0393209550

0393211080

0393211083

0393215733

0393215734

0393215735

0393215739

0393215741

0393215742

0393215744

0393215746

0393219814

0393219817

0393219819

0393219820

0393219825

0393219829

0393219830

0393219831

0393219859

0393219861

0393219862

0393219863

0393219866

0393219868

Edited October 30, 2009 by lindr2

[+Epizikl 7]

Yes, it is interesting ...

But in this case to be a great and hard work ...

[+starfighter2 116]

Hey , nice. Just keep up with good work.

[+EricJ 3,991]

Please double check where you're starting your topics, as this has nothing to do with campaigns.

[+The Trooper 104]

Privet,

I'll try to answer some of the questions:

 

Q1: Bulgarian MF were able to use R-23R, R-23T, R-3S, R-3R, R-13M, UB-16/32, bombs. Later (in 1982 I think) R-60 was integrated. Mixed R-23R + R-23T loadout was not possible. I am pretty sure that they were able to carry Kh-23 if "Delta" pod was attached.

 

Q2: Bulgarian ML were actually MLA izd. 23-12A ( s/n 2960324XXX IIRC ) with N003E (Н003Э) radar and TP-26Sh (26Ш) IRST. The armament was the same as on MiG-23MF plus R-24R/T capability. They were able to carry mixed R-24T + R-24R (or R-23T + R-23R) loadout.

 

Q3: 23-22 is the export variant of MLD not MLA. These were delivered only to Bulgaria and Syria (and maybe Iraq?). The avionics are much like that on soviet MLD - N008E (Н008Э) (export version of N008) radar, TP-26Sh (26Ш) IRST, SPO-15L RWR. There are some differences: the angle of attack limiter on 23-22 was SOUA (СОУА) instead of SOS-3-4 (СОС-3-4) that was on 23-18 and the SAU (САУ) was improved on 23-18. The cockpits are almost identical. The airframe has little external differences to ML /MLA (see the attached image). The armament was the same as on MLA. There is countermesure dispencer on the centerline pylon.

 

I hope this helps.

 

btw. can I see the sn database?

 

P.S. I am currently working on new templates for the different models MiG-23 we have (MLD and ML are almost complete), so drop me a PM if you want some new skins for your pack.

Edited October 31, 2009 by The Trooper

[+lindr2 19]

Thank You Trooper! "Export" MLD & MLAE2 it's same plane (32-22), some sources use 'MLD' name, others "MLAE2' but MLAE2 (MLAE-II) more correct, i think because not aerodynamics update for this.. Syria & Iraq never got 32-22...

They use 32-19...

 

i will send you DB... (lot of Bulgarian S/N there).

[+Soulfreak 6,366]

Lindr, thank you for your great work on the MiG-23 Family!!!!

A while ago i´ve made an East German MiG-23ML skin.

if you like, use it in your pack!

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=8079

[+lindr2 19]

Lindr, thank you for your great work on the MiG-23 Family!!!!

A while ago i´ve made an East German MiG-23ML skin.

if you like, use it in your pack!

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=8079

i know, Thanks!... i added two numbers (471,475) & sorted planes according SN, need more SN's?

 

DDR_MLA.rar

[+Soulfreak 6,366]

if i remember it right, i have done the numbers historical correct...

[+lindr2 19]

if i remember it right, i have done the numbers historical correct...

 

You numbers is hystorically correct! i just sorted it's & add two:

 

S/N ________ Plane Number

 

0390324250 ___ 471

0390324254 ___ 475

 

they's between

.....

0390324051 ___ 606

0390324249 ___ 610

 

<-------------->

 

0390324255 ___ 488

Edited October 31, 2009 by lindr2

[+lindr2 19]

if i remember it right, i have done the numbers historical correct...

 

DDR BN:

 

0393211085 _ 689

0393211087 _ 690

0393211088 _ 691

0393214101 _ 692

0393214210 _ 694

0393214211 _ 695

0393214212 _ 696

0393214213 _ 697

0393214214 _ 698

0393214216 _

0393214217 _ 701

0393214218 _ 702

0393214219 _

0393214220 _ 707

0393214225 _ 710

0393215600 _ 712

0393215721 _ 715

0393215729 _

0393215730 _

0393215732 _ 718

0393222830 _ 705

0393222831 _

 

MF:

 

0390213095 568

0390213096 586

0390213097 582

0390213098 584

0390213100 585

0390213299 577

0390213300 591

0390213351 592

0390213352 593

 

MLA:

 

0390324018 550

0390324019 551

0390324027 554

0390324028 558

0390324031 563

0390324033 567

0390324038 569

0390324040 576

0390324050 601

0390324051 606

0390324249 610

0390324250 471

0390324254 475

0390324255 488

 

0390324617 343

0390324618 345

0390324619 330

0390324621 331

0390324623

0390324624 333

0390324625 332

0390324627 336

0390324630 338

0390324635 339

0390324636 340

0390324637 341

0390324638 349

0390324639 350

0390324640 353

 

UB:

 

A1037826 102

A1037901 104

A1037902 105

A1038034 106

A1038221 107

A1038280 109

A1038506 103

A1038594 100

[+The Trooper 104]

Thank You Trooper! "Export" MLD & MLAE2 it's same plane (32-22), some sources use 'MLD' name, others "MLAE2' but MLAE2 (MLAE-II) more correct, i think because not aerodynamics update for this.. Syria & Iraq never got 32-22...

They use 32-19...

 

i will send you DB... (lot of Bulgarian S/N there).

 

Thanks for the DB!

 

Our 23-22s were listed as "MLD" in all the documentation including the original Soviet manuals.

Are there any other 23-22 users besides Bulgaria? I've always thought that Syria got some 23-22s too.

 

Another (a bit offtopic) question... Do you happen to know the tactical numbers of the 120 IAP MLDs based in Afghanistan during 1988-89? This is what I have found so far:

 

MLD (17 aircraft in 1st squadron, 16 in 2nd):

 

01

05

06

08

09

10

14

15

31

32

37

38

39

40

42

44

50

51

54

55

57

58

59

60

61

63

64

 

UB (3 in 1st squadron, 2 in 2nd):

 

07 later changed to 70

28

29

[+lindr2 19]

MLAE2 is 'MLD Export' just another name, at any way only 32-22 is OFFICIAL name...

 

something like 'хоть горшком назови' {no matter WHAT name..}

 

i talked about it with some people, looks like 32-22 exist only in 'EXPORT A' version...

 

 

32-22{A} MiG-23MLAE-2 for WP only

 

32-19 MiG-23MLAE for no WP

 

about MLD SN's:

 

 

WERE updated to MLD 0390310389 - 0390323765 & 0390324647 - 0390324849 except 0390310485,496,556,560,561

 

source

 

 

32-19 {probably}, not sure..

 

 

I know You speak russian... sorry i have no time fo full translate, maybe tomorrow

 

about 120 iAP dont' know yet, will try..

[Derk 265]

 

 

I know You speak russian... sorry i have no time fo full translate, maybe tomorrow

 

about 120 iAP dont' know yet, will try..

 

 

What is the Russian word for "drag" ??

 

Hou doe,

 

Derk

Edited November 28, 2009 by EricJ

[+The Trooper 104]

Thanks,

No need of translation, I can read it. So if I got it correct, Bulgaria was the only 23-22 user and Syria and Iraq had 23-19. There are 3 Libyan aircraft listed as MLAE in your database. Does this mean Libya has 23-19 too or it is just an error in the database?

Is that an Iraqi aircraft on the picture? It looks like the stencils are in English... weird

[+The Trooper 104]

What is the Russian word for "drag" ??

 

If you mean "aerodynamic drag", it is "сопротивление"

[Derk 265]

If you mean "aerodynamic drag", it is "сопротивление"

 

Great, thanks......

 

Hou doe,

 

Derk

[+lindr2 19]

Thanks,

No need of translation, I can read it. So if I got it correct, Bulgaria was the only 23-22 user and Syria and Iraq had 23-19. There are 3 Libyan aircraft listed as MLAE in your database. Does this mean Libya has 23-19 too or it is just an error in the database?

Is that an Iraqi aircraft on the picture? It looks like the stencils are in English... weird

 

yes it's iraqi plane, you can see some elements, absent on pure MLA, also this plane has BVP-50-60...

 

about lybian

 

2960326118

2960326461

2960327202

 

you can see this is 26-th serie, last known MLA serie is 24-th but not sure at 100%б som,esources speaks about lybian MLD...

[+Soulfreak 6,366]

Damn Lindr, your PM-Folder is full...

i would like to ask you for a favour. Can you make Bitmaps with the layout of the MiG-23UB Model on the bitmaps?

That makes skinning much easier!

BTW Great work you do!

 

Regards, Carlo

[+ghostrider883 526]

 

Q1: MF armanent: i read what polish Mig-23MF's (Blocks 17,21,22,24) cant use Kh-23 & R-60, Romanian MF's Block 17 can use kh-23 but not R-60, i need more info about WP MF's & indian MF's loadout...

 

 

 

Indian MF's when initially bought were for air defence only. They could fire the R-23R...the first IAF fighter to be able to fire BVR missiles.

 

Pictures of Indian MFs carrying bombs or rocket pods are rare, or none should I say. but during the retirement ceremony of Indian MF's , atleast one was armed with four UV-16 or 32 rocket pods...two on wing glove pylons & two in the belly stations

a few pics of Indian MFs here:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/AirfieldVisits/Jamnagar/

[+lindr2 19]

Thanks! it means no Kh-23 for Rakshak, i think... so interesting: apu-60-ii on wing pylon, i seen 2 x R-60 racks only on fuselage before... any info about arab AF's MF armament? i heared R-60 exported only with ML family for them. and how about cuban MF?

[Erwin_Hans 6]

Need any info about Egypt MiG-23MS/BN?

 

In mid of 1970S,China got 2 MiG-23MS,2 MiG-23BN,2 MiG-23U and at least 10 AS-5(KS-11) missiles...

 

SN 770343

 

 

[gregair 0]

Hi Lindr2, I can send you Angolan Mig23ML and UB "Bort numbers List" if you need, let me know but I dont have any serial numbers.

 

To model their cammo is a nightmare as no two Angolan Mig-23 seem to have the same scheme.

[+ghostrider883 526]

Thanks! it means no Kh-23 for Rakshak, i think... so interesting: apu-60-ii on wing pylon, i seen 2 x R-60 racks only on fuselage before... any info about arab AF's MF armament? i heared R-60 exported only with ML family for them. and how about cuban MF?

 

yes. no kh-23s or other a2g guided missiles for the rakshak.

[+The Trooper 104]

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