+lindr2 Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) I' working on big mig-23 pack, wanna make all serial produtction models, i have enough info about homeuse models, but i need more info about export versions: note: i have Mig-23 database, Mig-23 S/N Structure is FFF MM SS NNN were: FFF - Factory code, 039 for M,MF,ML,MLA,MLA,P, but 296 for MLD some MLA... MM - model number 02 for M,MF,MS, 03 for ML,MLA, 06 for P, 32 for BN SS - Serie {block number} NNN - plane number, however some sources used SSN as serie, {0390617079 MiG-23P, Block 170, plane 79} example: 039 02 13 865 -> Factory Number 39, M -family (M,MF,MS), Block 13, plane number 8-65. Q1: MF armanent: i read what polish Mig-23MF's (Blocks 17,21,22,24) cant use Kh-23 & R-60, Romanian MF's Block 17 can use kh-23 but not R-60, i need more info about WP MF's & indian MF's loadout... Q2: ML or MLA? after analize S/N's i found what CSSR & DDR & Iraqi & Syrie & Bulgarian ML is MLA, because it's S/N get block number more that 19... i'm sure that Block 08 or above is ML, 19 or greater is MLA, blocks 15,17,18 is P.. Q: i need to know Cuban & Angola "ML' Serial numbers... maybe some others... for check it's version. Q3: anoter ML family versions ML family is: {Factory codes} 32-12 - ML : Sapfir-23ML radar 32-12A - MLA : Ametist N003 radar 32-14 - P : Ametist N006 radar 32-18 - MLD : Ametist-2 N008 radar 32-22 - MLAE2 or MLA2 : Ametist-2 N008 radar, but no aerodynamic updates (for Bulgaria,1985), also named MLD is some books, but Bulgaria got 'pure' MLD only in 1992 32-19 - MLAE, downgrated 32-22 with N-033 radar, but with CM & other MLD avionics, for Iraq,Syria note: i read, that some MLA,MLD have VP-23 ( 23mm chaff/freares, 12 items) in centerline pylon... Q: i need more info about 32-22, 32-19 ... P.S. if you need SN database (BD.xls, on russian), just ask... for example: CzSSR MiG-23BN's, plane number decals -> last 4 digits 0393209138 0393209139 0393209140 0393209142 0393209545 0393209548 0393209549 0393209550 0393211080 0393211083 0393215733 0393215734 0393215735 0393215739 0393215741 0393215742 0393215744 0393215746 0393219814 0393219817 0393219819 0393219820 0393219825 0393219829 0393219830 0393219831 0393219859 0393219861 0393219862 0393219863 0393219866 0393219868 Edited October 30, 2009 by lindr2 Quote
+Epizikl Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Yes, it is interesting ... But in this case to be a great and hard work ... Quote
+starfighter2 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Hey , nice. Just keep up with good work. Quote
+EricJ Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Please double check where you're starting your topics, as this has nothing to do with campaigns. Quote
+The Trooper Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Privet, I'll try to answer some of the questions: Q1: Bulgarian MF were able to use R-23R, R-23T, R-3S, R-3R, R-13M, UB-16/32, bombs. Later (in 1982 I think) R-60 was integrated. Mixed R-23R + R-23T loadout was not possible. I am pretty sure that they were able to carry Kh-23 if "Delta" pod was attached. Q2: Bulgarian ML were actually MLA izd. 23-12A ( s/n 2960324XXX IIRC ) with N003E (Н003Э) radar and TP-26Sh (26Ш) IRST. The armament was the same as on MiG-23MF plus R-24R/T capability. They were able to carry mixed R-24T + R-24R (or R-23T + R-23R) loadout. Q3: 23-22 is the export variant of MLD not MLA. These were delivered only to Bulgaria and Syria (and maybe Iraq?). The avionics are much like that on soviet MLD - N008E (Н008Э) (export version of N008) radar, TP-26Sh (26Ш) IRST, SPO-15L RWR. There are some differences: the angle of attack limiter on 23-22 was SOUA (СОУА) instead of SOS-3-4 (СОС-3-4) that was on 23-18 and the SAU (САУ) was improved on 23-18. The cockpits are almost identical. The airframe has little external differences to ML /MLA (see the attached image). The armament was the same as on MLA. There is countermesure dispencer on the centerline pylon. I hope this helps. btw. can I see the sn database? P.S. I am currently working on new templates for the different models MiG-23 we have (MLD and ML are almost complete), so drop me a PM if you want some new skins for your pack. Edited October 31, 2009 by The Trooper Quote
+lindr2 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 Thank You Trooper! "Export" MLD & MLAE2 it's same plane (32-22), some sources use 'MLD' name, others "MLAE2' but MLAE2 (MLAE-II) more correct, i think because not aerodynamics update for this.. Syria & Iraq never got 32-22... They use 32-19... i will send you DB... (lot of Bulgarian S/N there). Quote
+Soulfreak Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Lindr, thank you for your great work on the MiG-23 Family!!!! A while ago i´ve made an East German MiG-23ML skin. if you like, use it in your pack! http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=8079 Quote
+lindr2 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 Lindr, thank you for your great work on the MiG-23 Family!!!! A while ago i´ve made an East German MiG-23ML skin. if you like, use it in your pack! http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=8079 i know, Thanks!... i added two numbers (471,475) & sorted planes according SN, need more SN's? DDR_MLA.rar Quote
+Soulfreak Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 if i remember it right, i have done the numbers historical correct... Quote
+lindr2 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) if i remember it right, i have done the numbers historical correct... You numbers is hystorically correct! i just sorted it's & add two: S/N ________ Plane Number 0390324250 ___ 471 0390324254 ___ 475 they's between ..... 0390324051 ___ 606 0390324249 ___ 610 <--------------> 0390324255 ___ 488 Edited October 31, 2009 by lindr2 Quote
+lindr2 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 if i remember it right, i have done the numbers historical correct... DDR BN: 0393211085 _ 689 0393211087 _ 690 0393211088 _ 691 0393214101 _ 692 0393214210 _ 694 0393214211 _ 695 0393214212 _ 696 0393214213 _ 697 0393214214 _ 698 0393214216 _ 0393214217 _ 701 0393214218 _ 702 0393214219 _ 0393214220 _ 707 0393214225 _ 710 0393215600 _ 712 0393215721 _ 715 0393215729 _ 0393215730 _ 0393215732 _ 718 0393222830 _ 705 0393222831 _ MF: 0390213095 568 0390213096 586 0390213097 582 0390213098 584 0390213100 585 0390213299 577 0390213300 591 0390213351 592 0390213352 593 MLA: 0390324018 550 0390324019 551 0390324027 554 0390324028 558 0390324031 563 0390324033 567 0390324038 569 0390324040 576 0390324050 601 0390324051 606 0390324249 610 0390324250 471 0390324254 475 0390324255 488 0390324617 343 0390324618 345 0390324619 330 0390324621 331 0390324623 0390324624 333 0390324625 332 0390324627 336 0390324630 338 0390324635 339 0390324636 340 0390324637 341 0390324638 349 0390324639 350 0390324640 353 UB: A1037826 102 A1037901 104 A1037902 105 A1038034 106 A1038221 107 A1038280 109 A1038506 103 A1038594 100 Quote
+The Trooper Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Thank You Trooper! "Export" MLD & MLAE2 it's same plane (32-22), some sources use 'MLD' name, others "MLAE2' but MLAE2 (MLAE-II) more correct, i think because not aerodynamics update for this.. Syria & Iraq never got 32-22... They use 32-19... i will send you DB... (lot of Bulgarian S/N there). Thanks for the DB! Our 23-22s were listed as "MLD" in all the documentation including the original Soviet manuals. Are there any other 23-22 users besides Bulgaria? I've always thought that Syria got some 23-22s too. Another (a bit offtopic) question... Do you happen to know the tactical numbers of the 120 IAP MLDs based in Afghanistan during 1988-89? This is what I have found so far: MLD (17 aircraft in 1st squadron, 16 in 2nd): 01 05 06 08 09 10 14 15 31 32 37 38 39 40 42 44 50 51 54 55 57 58 59 60 61 63 64 UB (3 in 1st squadron, 2 in 2nd): 07 later changed to 70 28 29 Quote
+lindr2 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Posted November 2, 2009 MLAE2 is 'MLD Export' just another name, at any way only 32-22 is OFFICIAL name... something like 'хоть горшком назови' {no matter WHAT name..} i talked about it with some people, looks like 32-22 exist only in 'EXPORT A' version... 32-22{A} MiG-23MLAE-2 for WP only 32-19 MiG-23MLAE for no WP about MLD SN's: WERE updated to MLD 0390310389 - 0390323765 & 0390324647 - 0390324849 except 0390310485,496,556,560,561 source 32-19 {probably}, not sure.. I know You speak russian... sorry i have no time fo full translate, maybe tomorrow about 120 iAP dont' know yet, will try.. Quote
Derk Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) I know You speak russian... sorry i have no time fo full translate, maybe tomorrow about 120 iAP dont' know yet, will try.. What is the Russian word for "drag" ?? Hou doe, Derk Edited November 28, 2009 by EricJ Quote
+The Trooper Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Thanks, No need of translation, I can read it. So if I got it correct, Bulgaria was the only 23-22 user and Syria and Iraq had 23-19. There are 3 Libyan aircraft listed as MLAE in your database. Does this mean Libya has 23-19 too or it is just an error in the database? Is that an Iraqi aircraft on the picture? It looks like the stencils are in English... weird Quote
+The Trooper Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 What is the Russian word for "drag" ?? If you mean "aerodynamic drag", it is "сопротивление" Quote
Derk Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 If you mean "aerodynamic drag", it is "сопротивление" Great, thanks...... Hou doe, Derk Quote
+lindr2 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks, No need of translation, I can read it. So if I got it correct, Bulgaria was the only 23-22 user and Syria and Iraq had 23-19. There are 3 Libyan aircraft listed as MLAE in your database. Does this mean Libya has 23-19 too or it is just an error in the database? Is that an Iraqi aircraft on the picture? It looks like the stencils are in English... weird yes it's iraqi plane, you can see some elements, absent on pure MLA, also this plane has BVP-50-60... about lybian 2960326118 2960326461 2960327202 you can see this is 26-th serie, last known MLA serie is 24-th but not sure at 100%б som,esources speaks about lybian MLD... Quote
+Soulfreak Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Damn Lindr, your PM-Folder is full... i would like to ask you for a favour. Can you make Bitmaps with the layout of the MiG-23UB Model on the bitmaps? That makes skinning much easier! BTW Great work you do! Regards, Carlo Quote
+ghostrider883 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Q1: MF armanent: i read what polish Mig-23MF's (Blocks 17,21,22,24) cant use Kh-23 & R-60, Romanian MF's Block 17 can use kh-23 but not R-60, i need more info about WP MF's & indian MF's loadout... Indian MF's when initially bought were for air defence only. They could fire the R-23R...the first IAF fighter to be able to fire BVR missiles. Pictures of Indian MFs carrying bombs or rocket pods are rare, or none should I say. but during the retirement ceremony of Indian MF's , atleast one was armed with four UV-16 or 32 rocket pods...two on wing glove pylons & two in the belly stations a few pics of Indian MFs here: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/AirfieldVisits/Jamnagar/ Quote
+lindr2 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks! it means no Kh-23 for Rakshak, i think... so interesting: apu-60-ii on wing pylon, i seen 2 x R-60 racks only on fuselage before... any info about arab AF's MF armament? i heared R-60 exported only with ML family for them. and how about cuban MF? Quote
Erwin_Hans Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Need any info about Egypt MiG-23MS/BN? In mid of 1970S,China got 2 MiG-23MS,2 MiG-23BN,2 MiG-23U and at least 10 AS-5(KS-11) missiles... SN 770343 Quote
gregair Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Hi Lindr2, I can send you Angolan Mig23ML and UB "Bort numbers List" if you need, let me know but I dont have any serial numbers. To model their cammo is a nightmare as no two Angolan Mig-23 seem to have the same scheme. Quote
+ghostrider883 Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks! it means no Kh-23 for Rakshak, i think... so interesting: apu-60-ii on wing pylon, i seen 2 x R-60 racks only on fuselage before... any info about arab AF's MF armament? i heared R-60 exported only with ML family for them. and how about cuban MF? yes. no kh-23s or other a2g guided missiles for the rakshak. Quote
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