Non Track IR users what keys/views...

[DukeIronHand 8]

For the non-users of TrackIR...

 

I have tried mapping keys to my joystick but I am not sure if they are working. Sometimes they seem to and other times not. My HAT switch works OK but it is not enough to help me

 

The explantion (title or name) of the key commands (in the configuration menu) seems logical enough but I am not acheiving the results that I desire and am hopelessly confused in dogfights trying to track aircraft around me. Like one of the several Padlock commands - it does not seem to work for me or I am not using it right.

 

What exact (as they are called in the configuration menu) key commands/view commands are you using when you dogfight to maintain situational awareness??

Edited December 6, 2009 by DukeIronHand

[Check Six 2]

DukeIronHand,

 

What you need to ask yourself is "What commands are MOST USEFUL to me in combat?" and "Which of these commands are NOT ACCESSIBLE to me during combat (because I have to take my eyes off my enemy to utilise them)?"

 

These keys are the ones you need to map onto your joystick. (BTW, what Joystick do you use? Perhaps others that have that kind of Joystick will share their profile with you here).

 

I have a Saitek X-52 Joystick, and use these keys...

 

 

 

Some of these commands do in fact emulate TrackIR commands (and you said you don't need/want those, so I apologise, but if you have this type of joystick you can assign those keys to something else) and not all of the commands are shown (as the less important ones towards the end need to be scrolled down, and you can't do that in the provided photo, plus the key commands for the seperate throttle aren't shown). But these are the key commands that I use on my Saitek X-52, and are carefully thought out as to the questions above "What is most useful" and "What are not accessible" to me in combat.

 

Now, other commands, such as fuel mixture cut-off (Ctrl+Shift+F8) is a very complex command with pressing three keys at once, but this is only used on landing, and (in theory at least) is performed when you have touched down and can afford to take your eyes off the screen momentarily. I do have this command mapped to my throttle, but I have many programmable buttons on both joystick and throttle (I also have 18 programmable keys on my keyboard, so I am very lucky).

 

So, that's it...You need to understand what is VITAL to you in combat, and what you NEED to program onto your joystick. Next you need to put them into a priority list. Which of these necessary commands is the MOST necessary, and then allocate buttons that are most accessible or most intuitive or user-friendly (ie views to hat switches, weapons to triggers etc).

 

I hope that helps you try to work out what to do. If not, tell us what type of joystick you use, and maybe a forum friend who has a profile can post it for you.

 

The padlock command is dangerous, and it's easy to lose situational awareness and suffer CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain).

 

Zoom your TAC to maximum, so it only displays aircraft within the 2 mile radius (obviously these are the most dangerous to you) keep one eye on this when you have a brief moment. Try to identify those that MAY soon be in a position to fire at you (whether they are on your tail or not).

 

Try to develop your situational awareness. If an enemy conducts a head-on pass at you, try to develop an internal clock that will alert you when he will become a danger. "If I continue on in a straight line after this enemy has passed me head-on, how many seconds will it take for him to perform a tight circle, and hence be approaching me from my Six o'clock? If he performs a right hand bank to get on my tail, can I get on HIS tail quicker by performing the same manoeuvre with my Camel's (or Dr.1, or D.VII etc) flight characteristics?" etc. Practice this in Quick Combat using a Joe Bloggs pilot.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Check Six

[Rickitycrate 10]

FYI, http://cgi.ebay.com/Natural-Point-TrackIR-3-Pro-IL2-Sturmovik-1946_W0QQitemZ180441480531QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2a03267d53

 

Currently $25.

[DukeIronHand 8]

Thanks Check Six - thats exactly what I was looking for. I use a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro but a X52 (probably) and a TrackIR 5 are on the near horizon.

 

Couple of questions though:

 

Is the "Toggle Views" the setting that brings up the gunsight view?

 

How exactly are the "Next Target" "Previous Target" working view wise? Does your "cockpit head" track toward the target?

 

Does a target have to be "designated" first? Like padlocked or the use of the "Brackets" command - which does not seem to work for me.

 

IIRC the "Player/Target View" toggle switches to an outside view of you to the enemy?

Edited December 7, 2009 by DukeIronHand

[Check Six 2]

Thanks Check Six - thats exactly what I was looking for. I use a Logitech 3D Extreme Pro but a X52 (probably) and a TrackIR 5 are on the near horizon.

 

Couple of questions though:

 

Is the "Toggle Views" the setting that brings up the gunsight view?

 

How exactly are the "Next Target" "Previous Target" working view wise? Does your "cockpit head" track toward the target?

 

Does a target have to be "designated" first? Like padlocked or the use of the "Brackets" command - which does not seem to work for me.

 

IIRC the "Player/Target View" toggle switches to an outside view of you to the enemy?

 

 

DukeIronHand,

 

Hope I can answer your questions satisfactorily. If I can't, I'm sure others will be able to elaborate better.

 

I forgot to mention that you should assign a key command and/or Joystick button to "Virtual Cockpit". If you enlist a Joe Bloggs pilot and take him to Quick Combat, sitting on the field. Hit Escape, and a drop down menu appears. Select "Controls" and another drop down menu appears. Scroll down to "Virtual Cockpit" and add the assignment "V". Save as "Mine" (without the quotation marks and with the default file extension). Now pressing "V" will take you to the Virtual Cockpit, a very useful view in combat.

 

Now, to your questions...The "Toggle Views" controls goes through the views you are using...Virtual Cockpit, designated target view etc. This one isn't good for combat because it is a toggle of SEVERAL views, and you mostly want to switch between two views only...a general view (virtual cockpit or TrackIR and over the gunsight "Ima kill this bastard" view).

 

"Target View" is a little more complex. Let's basically describe a scenario...

 

You're chugging along, looking at the scenery, with your TAC on 8 mile range. A couple of target blips appear. (White because of their excessive range). As they get closer, you see both blips turn red (signifying enemy), and they seem to get bigger (because there's more than one in that group).

 

Determine which is more likely to be the biggest threat to you (you should have been carefully watching as you approach). Say for instance it seems as if you're trailling the group at your 11 o'clock, and catching up reasonably fast...most likely two-seaters or heavies. Say also that the group on your 3 o'clock WAS travelling in the opposite direction to you, but has apparently turned in towards you. They are likely to be your most threatening.

 

Keeping your eyes on your TAC (because these guys are still 4 or so miles away), toggle your "Next Target" key or button until the yellow blip signifying your designated target is one of the aircraft on that group. Then hit "Target View". The view will show you a close up of this aircraft with your aircraft in the centre of the screen some distance away, and not visible. Check out a few things here...is this aircraft a scout (and what kind...can he outmanoeuvre you or you him? Is he faster than you, or are you the faster? Is he higher than you (this should become evident in this view) Is he headed towards you or does he apparently not see you (or ignoring you as he has an important mission to fulfill). Got all that? Good.

 

Now toggle "Next Target" again, keeping an eye on your TAC to ensure that the next target is still within that group on your 3 o'clock. Another scout, same type. Toggle "Next Target" again, again checking the aircraft is still in the 3 o'clock group. Eventually, the TAC will indicate that the designated target you have selected is in the group of aircraft at your 11 o'clock, and yep...he's a two seater. Toggle "Next Target" again and again, keeping your eyes on the TAC. You see he is one of three two seaters heading North like you. So far so good. Let's say the 11 o'clock group is closer than the 3 o'clock group of scouts. You decide to take one of the two-seaters out (which you can do well before the scout escort catches up to you). Quickly scribble down how many in this flight, type of aircraft (for your combat report).

 

Toggle "Next Target" within this group, looking at "Target View" and ascertain which aircraft is the flight leader (you can tell because usually you can see the other aircraft in his group at this range). See which one is leading the group. Toggle "Next Target" until you've selected one of his wingmen. Now you're ready to attack. Have a look around to see that the scout escort is far enough away to perform an attack.

 

Let's get YOUR wingmen into the action. I have assumed you are flight leader in all this, or it's all academic. Your flight leader MAY decide to attack either group or evade both. They should be close enough now to identify them with your "Labels". Scribble down their squadron (again for your combat report). Note your location (either with the in-flight map or hit "Z" to toggle info, pause and write down your lat and long and the time).

 

If you are the leader, you hit "A" and tell your wingmen to attack the wingman two-seater. As they move in, settle behind and under the flight leader. When your wingmen start blazing away, your flight leader's gunner should open fire on your wingmen to protect his wingman. Give him a good long burst and take him out. When it's obvious he's in flames or dropped out of formation, hit "Next Target" again until you have selected your next target in that formation.

 

Whether successful or not, the fighter escort will be close now. Tell your wingmen to return to formation. Select "Next Target", keeping your eyes on your TAC until you're on the scout group. Again note their numbers, squadron, location and time before the attack. Using the same method described above, select the flight leader's wingman, and order your wingmen to attack him. Now you can concentrate on attacking the flight leader. Once an aircraft is no longer a threat (beacuse he's on fire, or dropped out of formation etc, select next target within that group and concentrate on him. If you get eyes on him, and hes some distance away, you may have time to select another target within that group, assign your wingmen to attack him, then get back to your designated target.

 

"Player/Target view" is a toggle, and if you select it, you will see the target in the centre foreground of your screen with you in the centre background (or invisible if you're far enough away). If you toggle "Player/Target View" again, you will have your aircraft in the centre fopreground, with your designated target in the centre background.

 

Whew!

 

Sorry for the long-winded reply. That's essentially how I might carry out an attack. I think it fair to "Cheat" a bit, and you may want (at first) to pause your sim whilst you perform all this toggling of "Next Target" etc, especially if there are many groups around, but after a while, you'll be able to perform a quick sweep of all enemy on your TAC and have ascertained which is the most threatening, which you will target first, how many in each group, which is at a higher altitude, which is at a lower, which is the flight leader...all within a few seconds, and you won't need to pause anymore.

 

I keep a lot of post it notes stuck on the cupboard which forms part of my cockpit. The left cupboard door contains post-it notes of my squadron mates. In the briefing room, I remove those that are in my flight and place them in a taped-off area for "A" flight, the accompanying flight in the taped-off area for "B" flight (so that these guys can witness my claims etc). On the right cupboard, I keep some prepared post-it notes such as "Albatros C.I", "Fokker Dr.1", and "Jasta 1", "Jasta 27" etc. When I enter into combat, I simply take a post-it note "Fokker Dr.1", another "4", and "Jasta 27", maybe anoth one with an ace opponent's name on it, and stick them in my target taped-off area (for my combat report...so all I have to remember is the location...and I pause and look at the map, so I can quickly ascertain my escape route back to my side of the lines, and an approximation of the location of the combat).

 

 

 

Long-winded...sure, but I hope this gives you a couple of good ideas that will improve your situational awareness, and answer your questions about the functions of a few of these commands.

 

Print out Homeboy's Command Key guide to use as a guide, and to know what commands to assign to your joystick buttons...

 

http://snomhf.exofir...commandkeys.jpg

Sadly...Homeboy "went West" some time ago. We here at the squadron are all hoping he is convalescing in some pretty French maid's care until he can rejoin us.

 

One more thing...beg, borrow, busk on a street corner, sell a kidney...WHATEVER you have to do to get the bucks...save up and get TrackIR. You will NEVER regret it, and will be amazed at how much easier it is to keep track of your enemy, and improve your SA twenty-fold. You will be astonished that you had ever gotten a victory without it.

 

 

Hope all that waffle helps, and you don't get lost or fall asleep during the explanation.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Check Six

[DukeIronHand 8]

Thanks again Check Six - your explanation was great and helps settle my mind! In that the screwy view system is not me making a mistake or having joystick problems. It's CFS3. Oddly, IIRC the CFS2 view system was certainly usable - in fact every flight sim I have ever had I managed to maintain SA with joystick/key commands only. Maybe I just need more practice to make this one second nature.

 

Uncleal is right though- the CFS3 view system apparently blows the big one.

 

Anyone got a spare kidney?

[DukeIronHand 8]

Oh...and nice setup with the "cockpit" there. You have given me some ideas.

 

I see we have the same chair anyway!

[Check Six 2]

Oh...and nice setup with the "cockpit" there. You have given me some ideas.

 

I see we have the same chair anyway!

 

 

I find it easier if and when I enter combat to just grab a post-it note for my fellow flight members and "A" or "B" flight during the pre-flight briefing instead of writing the same names down for each flight, and then to grab "Fokker Dr.1", another for "3", and another for the squadron they are flying for and stick them in the "active" part of the cupboard. It makes it much easier to fill in a claim form if and when you are presented with one. Basically, the only other thing you need is your location, and you can obtain that by hitting "Z" and writing down the lat and long, or looking on your map, and writing down "10 miles SW of Ypres" etc.

[DukeIronHand 8]

Well, just got done with a little more enjoyable dogfight experience...I cheated my arse off...but it will have to do until the TrackIR arrives.

 

All of a sudden - not sure why - the brackets, padlock view, and the targeting cone started working.

 

Do you have to be in the Virtual Cockpit (or a certain viewing mode) for these cheats (guess there is no other word for them) to work?

 

Once I know how to get them I can wean myself off them - I hope.

[Check Six 2]

Well, just got done with a little more enjoyable dogfight experience...I cheated my arse off...but it will have to do until the TrackIR arrives.

 

All of a sudden - not sure why - the brackets, padlock view, and the targeting cone started working.

 

Do you have to be in the Virtual Cockpit (or a certain viewing mode) for these cheats (guess there is no other word for them) to work?

 

Once I know how to get them I can wean myself off them - I hope.

 

There are some "purists" here that might consider using these little assistances here and there as "cheats". There was no TAC, no "radar", no "labels", no Brackets, no padlock etc in WW1. Some here fly FULL DiD (Dead is Dead) with no assistance whatsoever. They need to physically scan the skies for tiny little dots as they do not use TAC, they have to then fly close enough to them to identify the aircraft as friend or foe, and then decide whether to attack or not. They look at a PAPER map they have sitting on their lap (beacuse they will not "PAUSE"...there were no pauses in war).

 

I think it's great that they enjoy the sim that much that they fully immerse themselves into it that deeply, and it's great that the game developers have adapted the sim so that persons who wish to fly DiD can do so...that you can remove your TAC from your screen, turn off labels, have realistic weapons loads and fuel loads, that you CAN run out of both.

 

For "novices" like you and I, we can start out with all these "helps" (cheats if you will), and gradually discontinue their use as we become more experienced. I still find it fun, and I still almost break into a sweat when I pull my triggers and there is no ammunition (or my guns have jammed), and I realise I'm going to have to dodge enemy fire all the way home, and "virtually" kissing the ground if I land safely, and cursing loudly if my pilot dies, and actually mourn his passing.

 

The targetting cone will operate whether you are in chase view (or external views of your aircraft) or in virtual cockpit, whether you are using TrackIR or not. It is just simply a toggle of the "I" key. If you have the target cone cone toggled "on" and it's not appearing, it is because you have no target designated (eg the designated target you selected earlier has plummeted to the ground, and is destroyed, so the cone "turns off"). You'll also notice it changes colour from red to green (I think this indicates whether the target is above or below you, I'm not sure).

 

Print out Homeboy's Command Key Guide and go for a jolly jaunt on your side of the lines and work out your views and what toggles them on and off etc, then enlist a Joe Bloggs pilot in quick combat against a single rookie opponent, with you having the altitude advantage, and mess around with targetting an enemy, turning labels on and off etc until it becomes second nature, work out which is most useful to you, then learn how to map them onto your joystick.

 

Once you're totally used to it, you can begin to wean yourself off these "cheats". I personally don't think they are cheats. There were other advantages a pilot in WW1 had that we OFF pilots do not have (such as different coloured flak from either side, so you can tell by the colour of the flak whether that tiny dot up there is an enemy or not), flares fired from your flight leader etc...so really, I think they're ok to use, but if you want a much more realistic immersion, you can turn them off. I think I'd go (even more) blind by peering around looking for tiny dots, and constantly be wiping my monitor to check if that is an aircraft, or a bit of dust (or when I sneezed that time). I sill enjoy the sim, and don't think of it as cheating.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Check Six

[DukeIronHand 8]

Some things are linked together . . .ie . . if you want the gunsite to remain, when you intentionaly vanish your cockpit . . Hit (F5) first

 

What a system! You are correct though.

 

I was was in "Wonder Woman" view once and had a gun site. Once. I never have been able to figure out how I did it but I can't duplicate it.

 

C'mon Christmas and TrackIR...

[Dave63 13]

I find this discussion very interesting since I don't have TIR either. I'd like it, but I'll never be able to convince the war department of it's necessity