A letter to the President...

[+pcpilot 181]

Dear Sir, It is said that War is the failure of Diplomacy. Before you send our boys to fight a war very far away, make damn sure you have exhausted all other avenues to gain whatever it is you are trying to gain. Have you ever waited for a telegram from the Secretary of Defence to tell you that a loved one is not coming home, or looked into the eyes of one receiving it? Have you ever known the fear and uncertainty of a coming battle? Have you heard the screams of the dying or the groans of the wounded? Have the political bastards that make up congress known this? How many body bags are you willing to fill that your goals will be achieved?

I understand that you have a duty to protect this country. As a former member of the military, I understand that duty, and I support you in upholding that duty. I even expect you to do your duty. But before you give those boys the order to move out, you best damn well make sure that your motives are pure. None of that political rationale crap. There are no politics on the battlefield, or at the front door to the soldiers home where his wife and children stand waiting, or in the cemetary where he is laid to rest. There damn sure better not be any politics involved when you give that order.

Save all that glory and honor crap. Thats for children and fools. The only honor in war is doing your duty and bringing your buddy home. The only glory is to be remembered by those you served. We fight to protect our freedom you say, and yet the constitution which our freedom is built on is under assault here at home. We arent idiots, we see what is happening in the halls of congress and elsewhere in our goverment. Our freedoms are legislated away by those who aint got the guts to go to war themselves. Yet they clammer the loudest when threatened by some potential enemy to send the boys over.

There is a verse in the Bible that says, "examine yourselves to see whether ye be in the faith or not." That kind of honesty can be applied to a lot of the facets of our lives. Just remember sir, before you say "go", you will be judged...by your people, by history, and by God.

Sincerly,

Jeffery Bryon Gerald

former USMC, USN

[*Fast Eagle* 0]

WOW

[pitros 0]

Pcpilot, 'gratz, it's a nice job !

 

I wpuld like more of you fellows do that / or more often ;)

 

 

 

 

 

-> to you who don't argree with me, don't go and flame me "SimHQ-style", dont take it personally, if you dont like it let it go ... it is MY thinking and I wont discuss it in a flame war !

 

-> MadJeff, sorry it this post goes mad after that, feel free to cut that post, as I said, i am not willing to rotten your forums with my thoughts...

[Guest Ranger332]

Old "grunt" saying from russian Infantry soldiers.

"NO ONE LOVES A SOLDIER-TILL THE ENEMY IS AT THE GATES"

[BirdDogg 0]

PCPilot,

 

Outstanding read!. Pretty much sums up my feeling about the whole mess. I hope some-ones listen.

 

BirdDogg.

[Scout_51 0]

the post by pcpilot is quite direct,well I guess there ought be another view posted,kind of like Both sides telling their point...Mr Bush showed a bit of backbone by getting the smallpox vaccine himself..no he never went across the pond to a battlefield,but neither did the liar and DRAFT dogger that was in the peoples house before him...the one that was given SEVERAL reasons to defend the country and gaffed them all off,lets see the USS Cole,the khobar towers,the 93 wtc bombing....there has NEVER been a good war NEVER good reason to go to war,but sometimes it is the right thing to do...if uncle saddam has a nuke lets be honest he WILL use it sooner or latter,we ought give the IAF a hell of a Thank You for bombing the osirak reactor...this country OUGHT to stop worrying about what the terrorists will do if we attack them,they ALLREADY did It!..several times.one way to deal with a bully is to let him know he does NOT intimidate you,one way to deal with terrorists is to bring IT to them,let THEM look over THEIR shoulders..saddam IS a terrorist,he HAS ravaged his OWN people,and I do bet there IS a good reason the President of OUR country wants him out....by the way pcpilot I HAVE been across the pond,the RVN as a matter of fact.nope not flaming,just thought there ought be twp sides read..

[Guest Ranger332]

minor correction bush sad to say has been caught liing(about his national guard duty see Iam In a unit near that one and ppl there at the time he was assigned to it never saw him) but he is the c & c(commander and chief).

Served as Grunt 72-93,reseves 2001-present. and the small pox well Hes just protected befor you are

[BirdDogg 0]

Scout 51,

Not to be political/(nor am I attacking you view point) about this but, where in all of that does Iraq or it's citizens have anything to do with any of those events? And I think that's what PCP is getting at.

 

There wasn't one Iraqi citizen of the 19 hijackers of 911, There were no Iraqis that bomb the USS Cole. And there were none involved in Kobar bombings. Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that Sadam is a good man, However there is still yet unfinish business with Afghanistan. :roll:

 

We don't have Bin Laden, Mullah Omar, not even a top 10 member of the organization. So before stepping off into yet another Political/Military quagmire, lets try and figure out where and whom we should really be looking at :shock:

 

As a Ex-Marine whom served in Desert Shield/Storm, I say make sure you go after the right guys for the right reason. Should we be looking at Iraq, or should we be more concern about the breeding ground of fanatic Religious warriors. ie: *Saudi Arabia* where most of the hijackers were from. Afghanistan were Al qida is and will no doubt return, or Yemen which is a hotbed of Fanatics according to those whom know.

 

As a one time proffesional Military person I can honestly say, that I cannot see Mr Bush's clear agenda, and I think all Americans should have a level of clearity on this matter,

 

I'm still not clear on it, are you?

 

BirdDogg.

[Guest Ranger332]

Say folk lets save the forum for the SFP1 issues this realy isent the place,speacking as one who may be going back to Iraq Id reather see SFP1 stuff then what I may be doing in real life If I want stuff like this CNN has a forum!

[Scout_51 0]

minor correction bush sad to say has been caught liing(about his national guard duty see Iam In  a unit near that one and ppl there at the time he was assigned to it never saw him) but he is the  c & c(commander and chief).

Served as Grunt 72-93,reseves 2001-present. and the small pox well Hes just protected befor you are

 

Well I dont know,there never was a clear thing wether those of us took the shots in infancy are still somewhat protected,what I meant was least he took the smallpox shot,instead of letting everyone take the antrax vaccine as ordered...

[BirdDogg 0]

Say folk lets save the forum for the SFP1 issues this realy isent the place,speacking as one who may be going back to Iraq Id reather see SFP1 stuff then what I may be doing in real life If I want stuff like this CNN has a forum!

 

True, true. And for whats its worth Ranger I hope you do not have to go on Duty in this.

 

Peace

BirdDogg.

[Scout_51 0]

Scout 51,

 Not to be political/(nor am I attacking you view point) about this but, where in all of that does Iraq or it's citizens have anything to do with any of those events? And I think that's what PCP is getting at.

 

I understand that,that however doesc NOT mean the guy does NOT have his hands dirty,dont forget he pays suicide homicide types...

 

There wasn't one Iraqi citizen of the 19 hijackers of 911,  

 

true,nor were there little ole ladies or ww2 aces in it,yet those are the ones getting frisked,we need stop being politically correct,call a terrorist a terrorist and deal with it...

 

there is still yet unfinish business with Afghanistan. :roll:  

We don't have Bin Laden, Mullah Omar, not even a top 10 member of the organization.  

 

That we KNOW of......yes afgan will bea unfinished thing as long as they keep playing hide and seek..

 

So before stepping off into yet another Political/Military quagmire, lets try and figure out where and whom we should really be looking at :shock:  

 

well it was said it was a swamp with snakes,seems we ought deal with them as we catch them...

 

As a Ex-Marine whom served in Desert Shield/Storm, I say make sure you go after the right guys for the right reason.

 

gee I thought once a marine Allways one...lol just kidding..as a vietnam vet I understand going after the right guys,for the right reason,Political correctnes or polls ought NOT be the yardstick as to why the enemy needs be dealt with...

 

Should we be looking at Iraq, or should we be more concern about the breeding ground of fanatic Religious warriors. ie: *Saudi Arabia* where most of the hijackers were from. Afghanistan were Al qida is and will no doubt return, or Yemen which is a hotbed of Fanatics according to those whom know.

 

yemen should have been dealt with when the cole got hit,I do agree  the other places will need be dealt with on a ongoing basis..

 

As a one time proffesional Military person I can honestly say, that  I cannot see Mr Bush's clear agenda, and I think all Americans should have a level of  clearity on this matter,

 

I'm still not clear on it, are you?

 

yeah I think I am.you deal with the snakes as they get in range...do you really want saddam to have nukes? or hand over one to someone?

 

BirdDogg.

[BirdDogg 0]

Scout, good points,

But I still don't get it and the proof to such things has not been adaquately produced and, without that proof or affirmation I would say tis better to address North Korea than Iraq. NK has been a long time proliferator of Weapons period and if they have the Technology the will sell it. I think I'd be a little more concern about them.

 

BirdDogg.

[Seawolf 0]

I will say this: I support our Commander and Chief and there is nobody I would rather have as my President right now. I have to trust him if he feels this country is in danger and grant him the power to act. It's time we stop letting ourselves get run all over by these animals and take the fight to them. I don't care what other countries think or say, We have to take care of ourselves from now on. Being a Gulf War vet myself I to don't like the idea of sending our Men & Women off to combat, but that is what they train for and I know they are willing to do so if they are needed.

To Ranger and other active duty military in here- I salute you and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you do. God Bless, Be safe, and Have a Merry Christmas.

[BirdDogg 0]

Seawolf I hear ya,

I think my main thing with it all is that, unfortunately I don't see how we can fight along so many fronts effectively accomplishing what we set out to do, without caring much about how the rest of the worlds views us.

I some how think that America could be isolating itself by taking that approach.

 

Undoubtedly, I beleive we have the greatest Military on the planet, and I'm sure our men and women in the Armed Forces of America will put it all on the lines when the call comes. Just as we did. Heck I would sign backup if Mr Bush said let's cut the crap and go right after the Saudis and North Korea. BTW chech CNN for the North Korea developments as of today 12/23/02.

 

BirdDogg.

[Guest Ranger332]

before your so quick to jump saudies remeber we trained both bin laden and saddam,with laden rated as the best ever by the CIA.

and for all those that gave best wishes we of all branchies of the military thankyou for you words,wishes,and thoughts

[BirdDogg 0]

We normally train our future enemies, that said we better be more leary of those shifty eyed Canadians to the north

 

they've been looking for a reason to storm across the border, I think they said something about direct TV

 

I'm Kidding

(I feel the reason to say that alot in here lately :) )

 

BirdDogg.

[Scout_51 0]

Scout, good points,

   But I still don't get it and the proof to such things has not been adaquately produced and, without that proof or affirmation I would say tis better to address North Korea than Iraq. NK has been a long time proliferator of Weapons period and if they have the Technology the will sell it. I think I'd be a little more concern about them.

 

BirdDogg.

 

proof..do we really need let our enemies know how we do gather intel?...or you talking proof as per a mushroom cloud over manhattan or tel aviv?.or a nice gas attack in the a train line in ny?.as for the nk's,yep they also need be dealt with,but dont forget we DO have troops there and in nam I did get to see the rok's are the wrong bunch to screw with lol...And I do want to add my best wishes to all on active duty now,away from the land of the big px,hey guys(and gals,have to be pc lol) you doing good,and doing it right.god bless you All..

[Guest Ranger332]

well we trained them to do our bidding saddam as we wanted Iran done,and laden as we wanted Russian troops out of Afgan,both turned when we broke promasses made to them

[BirdDogg 0]

Scout 51,

I understand what you are saying about the attacks, both local and abroad. I don't think we have to disclose our information resourses but what has been presented is neither new nor unknown. (for example I've seen the same file footage for 11 years now) I believe in defense, and I believe in offensive defense.

 

The logic behind the Iraq thing escapes me (unless there's something we are all missing) . I cannot see how Iraq can project it's power beyond its own borders. Now as far as terrorist type attacks yes it's all possible, 911 brought that critical point home and being from just across the river in Jersey really brings it home to me.

 

But there were no Iraqi hijackers on those planes. I think it is safe to say we are willing to go after whomever wherever, and I think it's safe to say that we agree in that. I take issue at the approach I think it's just a little to shot-gunnish without so much as evena name of one Iraqi operative, agent, training camp, something.

 

You'll get no arguement from me on taking a stance with Military Might. But (for example) I would never shoot you because I believe you own a gun and have been mentally unstable in the past. I would however watch you like a hawk, I'd have people making long careers off of learning about you, but I would not shoot you without direct information that you planned on shooting me.

 

That is what I feel is missing from the Iraq thingy.

that about sums it up for me. I'll let you have the last word on it.

 

I don't want this to turn into a political thread, we don't really do that here and MAD JEFF I hope you don't mind to much.

 

Scout 51, its been great talkin with ya, and have a great Holiday as to for everyone here... Merry Christmas.

 

BirdDogg.

[Guest Ranger332]

Merry Christmas.

to you to

[Coyote 0]

I am thru and thru US of A..I have been to that god forsaken desert over there the first time. I think this time will be different. I also love Bush in office, and support him as a citizen. I do however think there is a hidden agenda here. I have seen nothing bad that Iraq has done to this point. They havent found any weapons, and Saddam is actually not being an ass. It looks to me that our government is really hard pressed to send troops there...Like I said before Bush and Powell really wanna go there...

[Scout_51 0]

That is what I feel is missing from the Iraq thingy.

that about sums it up for me. I'll let you have the last word on it.

 

I don't want this to turn into a political thread, we don't really do that here and MAD JEFF I hope you don't mind to much.

 

nahh the last word is still to be written,somewhere down the line.... :roll:

I do agree we ought get back to flight......now when are those thuds,intruders and sluff's gonna be ready to fly!..I recall seeing some hellacious paint schemes on those birds...

[+pcpilot 181]

(By the way Ranger, this particular forum, the "PUB", is indeed for off topic subjects such as this if I understand the description of the forum correctly).

 

Fellas, thank you very much for the replys. They were all indicative of people trying to think and understand what is going on here. Please dont take my post wrong fellas, I do tend to support our President. Yes, my words to him were tough. But it will be far tougher on those who bear the fighting. I dont want one young man or woman to die for an unclear mission or for B.S. political reasons. If one does, then we have failed to learn the lessons of Vietnam.

If we have to take out Saddam or any other threat to our national security because they have nukes or gas and is threatening us or an ally, then we do what we have to. But it is wrong to waste lives for nothing more than the satisfaction of a politition. So far, our goverments evidence of wrong doing on Saddam's part is hidden if it exist at all. This reminds me much of the situation surrounding the Tonkin gulf and the resulting reolution condeming Vietnam and escalating the war there with the intervention of US troops. Things were kept quiet then too for "Security Reasons". Later years proved it all to be a farce. We lost 58,000 young men. How many might we lose in this war and put their names on another wall?

I did not fight in Vietnam, I was too young, not joining the Marines till 1975, in April, the same month Saigon fell... But 14 years of military service and a keen interest in Military history has taught me that onesided affairs like the Gulf War are rare events indeed. And even that "one-sided" event still cost the lives of 400 men.

I love this country fellas, with all my heart. I choke up everytime I see the flag hauled down for the evening because I feel ole glory should wave forever. And because I care, like with those you love such as your family, you take nothing for granted. How many of you really trust polititions? Why should we trust them now because we are threatened? I think it means we watch even more closely. The rest of the world certainly is. I look to their leadership and defer to their authority as my leaders up to a point. But I still watch them, most of all because I love this country...

[Guest Ranger332]

very few of those lost in the gulf were combat related deaths,50% were accidents and fratracides