Damage Model Discussion--HPW Campaign DM released!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Ooooh, a Dr I, boat model! Is that triple decked too? Sounds like it leaks too much for my tastes, though, with all of those holes.

 

Since you live in BC, any chance to go see any of the Olympic events? I bet they are horrendously priced.

[carrick58 23]

With my "effects" on 4, I have black smoke, thinner smoke, phosgen vapour over hit areas,

splintering wood, fires, explosions, whole engines zooming out, parts coming off - so all that

is missing (but that's allright that way!) is a vapour of blood from hit pilots.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

A vapour of BLOOD from Hit Pilots ?

[Guest British_eh]

Herr Prop-Wasche

Ooooh, a Dr I, boat model! Is that triple decked too? Sounds like it leaks too much for my tastes, though, with all of those holes.

 

Since you live in BC, any chance to go see any of the Olympic events? I bet they are horrendously priced.

 

Yes, flying a Dr.1 that has been abused by those nasty FRC types is awful. I took on 3 Bristol Fighters the other day, knocked one down, but had been holed so many times by the remaining two, that it handled much like a leaky boat, and I was making about 55 mph at full throttle. Put it on the ground and survived another day.

 

The tickets are reasonably priced. Germany vs ? went the other day for $80 CDN, so not to bad. The Gold medal game, if it's Canada and Russia, will probably go for $1000 at least!

 

The DM work sounds very good.

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

 

Edited February 20, 2010 by British_eh

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I assume you are talking hockey? Care to make a wager on the U.S. vs. Canada match Sunday evening? I'd offer America's best beer v. Canada's best, but I don't know if it would be fair to send either to the winner!

[catch 81]

I'd like to see the enemy pilot and/or observer slump down when mortally wounded. I understand it may not be possible with the cfs3 engine but it would be nice to remove Charlton Heston's El Cid's from the skies.

[carrick58 23]

carrick58--I like the stock HITR DM, too. My only real gripe is the wings blowing off so easily. These are not 20 or 30 mm cannon rounds being fired at these aircraft.

 

OTOH, many people (myself included, if I am in the mood) get a certain satisfaction from blowing the wings off of an adversary's crate. Ultimately, I don't intend to totally eliminate the chance of blowing off an opponent's wing. I only want to reduce it to a more realistic (IMHO) level.

 

Dej--I'd like to eliminate this discrepancy as well. Unfortunately, even the rookie AI's are real sharpshooters and seem to know exactly where all the critical components are on your aircraft. I think I've found some success lowering the hit probability on the aileron cables from 100% to 90%. Instead of the aileron cable being the first component the AI will hit on your crate, it is now usually something else--usually the aileron itself, interestingly enough. Seems these diabolical AI have a plan: first cripple your aircraft's ability to maneuver, then kill you! Cheeky devils!

 

 

In that case we are in agreement

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Well, I have finally finished making all of my changes to the .xdp files of all of the QC airplanes. After I do a little more testing, I will upload the mod for others to evaluate. Keep in mind that this will be a BETA version for use in QC only, so expect a bit of oddness. Please report anything that strikes you as unusual or unrealistic, here.

 

Ideally, the mod will make most of the aircraft a little more sturdy in certain areas, and a little weaker in other areas. My ultimate goal (when the full campaign mod is released) is to make most of the aircraft a little easier to cripple, but somewhat more difficult to fully destroy. Hopefully, this will increase the survivability of both human and AI pilots, as I think it is currently a bit too bloody out there, IMO.

[carrick58 23]

ITS THOSE ALBATROSS PILOTS

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Another update and a small bump.

 

Still testing and tweaking the DM. The last major hurdle is getting the wings of the Nieuport's and Albatross' series correct so that the lower wings are hard for the enemy to shoot off, but still come off when overstressed by the pilot. Generally, if the wings shred from overstress, they can also be easily shot off; but if they can't be shot off, they also can't be overstressed. However, I think I am making progress with this problem.

 

Another problem is that some airplane wings do not display much visual damage until they totally fail. The DH2 is a prime example of this. Sometimes I can pump round after round into the wings of a DH2 with little visible effect until the wing suddenly departs the fuselage! In general, the wings on the DH2 seem to be tougher than the wings of comparable aircraft. Has anyone else seen this?

 

I could probably keep tweaking until I get everything just right, but then I might never release the mod. OTOH, I could release now, even while some glitches remain. What is everyone's preference?

Edited March 1, 2010 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[carrick58 23]

My vote release the mod

[Von Paulus 8]

Hmmm. You can released as beta....

When you think you'll release for campaign?

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Good news! I have just uploaded the mod and it should be available on the 3rd party download forum in a few hours. Keep in mind that the mod is currently designed for QC battles only and is still only a BETA. I hope to have a campaign version soon, but only after I get some feedback regarding the QC mod.

 

NOTICE: MOD TEMPORARILY WITHDRAWN DUE TO FAILURE TO INCLUDE FILE TO BACKUP ORIGINAL DM FILES!

 

I hope to have a corrected mod available later today or tomorrow. My apologies to anyone who may have already installed the mod.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I have now corrected the mod so that you can easily backup your standard HITR DM before installing the mod. Here are the revised installation instructions:

 

INSTALLATION: Important! Backup your HITR .xdp files first! Backup your HITR .xdp files by first copying the HITR_xdp_Backup.bat file to your OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder and then clicking on it to run the program. After you have backed up your .xdp files, extract the entire contents of the HPW_HITR_DM_1.1.zip file to the OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder. DO NOT unzip the file into the aircraft folder itself! If prompted, simply click "Yes to all" when asked if you wish to replace files. If at any time you wish to return to the stock HITR damage model (for either campaign or MP use), simply click the Restore_HITR_DM.bat file included in the zip file and automatically placed in your OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder. In order to re-apply the mod, simply re-open the HPW_HITR_DM_1.1.zip file and extract the aircraft folder to the OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder.

I apologize for the error in version 1.0 and hope no one messed up their installation as a result.

 

You may find the new version of the mod here: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=10663

Edited March 9, 2010 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Dej 17]

Those batch files are very conscientious of you HPW, thank you. I'll try the mod out tomorrow evening.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

You are most welcome, Dej. Let me know how you get on with the mod.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Help!

 

I'm afraid I need some assistance in testing my QC DM. Right now I am trying to determine if I have set the proper wing strength for the Bristol Fighters. Trouble is, I can't get close enough or do enough damage to the bloody things before they blow ME out of the sky! Damned English craftsmanship! This makes it very difficult to assess their damage model. Is there anyone daring or foolish enough to test my damage model in QC against these battle tanks of the sky? Any help would most certainly be appreciated, as I may never finish my DM mod at this pace!

 

Now excuse me as I go off muttering to myself....

[Guest British_eh]

Help!

 

I'm afraid I need some assistance in testing my QC DM. Right now I am trying to determine if I have set the proper wing strength for the Bristol Fighters. Trouble is, I can't get close enough or do enough damage to the bloody things before they blow ME out of the sky! Damned English craftsmanship! This makes it very difficult to assess their damage model. Is there anyone daring or foolish enough to test my damage model in QC against these battle tanks of the sky? Any help would most certainly be appreciated, as I may never finish my DM mod at this pace!

 

Now excuse me as I go off muttering to myself....

 

 

Hi there PW,

 

Will look at the suicide mission tonight:).

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

[Guest British_eh]

Help!

 

I'm afraid I need some assistance in testing my QC DM. Right now I am trying to determine if I have set the proper wing strength for the Bristol Fighters. Trouble is, I can't get close enough or do enough damage to the bloody things before they blow ME out of the sky! Damned English craftsmanship! This makes it very difficult to assess their damage model. Is there anyone daring or foolish enough to test my damage model in QC against these battle tanks of the sky? Any help would most certainly be appreciated, as I may never finish my DM mod at this pace!

 

Now excuse me as I go off muttering to myself....

 

Dr.1 against Bristol F2B QC DM loaded.

 

1. 22 rounds into one wing, aircraft down

 

 

2. 25 into tail, aircraft down

No pic sorry

3. 110 into Fuselege, A/C down

 

4. 30 into wing from under craft, A/C down

 

5. 179 into Wings, Engine, Fuseleg, from 6, A/C down

 

6. 182 into Engine area from frontal attack, aircraft seemed to be fine

 

7. 223 into both wings, one wing severely damaged, still fought on and downed by AA fire

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

Edited March 21, 2010 by British_eh

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Quite. Thank you very much.

 

182 into Engine area from frontal attack, aircraft seemed to be fine

 

No effect, huh! Hmmm. How many frontal attacks? What was your hit percentage? Did the aircraft seem to slow down or lose any of its maneuverability?

 

223 into both wings, one wing severely damaged, still fought on and downed by AA fire

 

Wow, that's a lot of shots into the wings. How many were aimed at the wing roots? That seems to be the critical area where the wings on the standard DM appear to be the weakest.

 

I'm also curious about the seeming lack of smoke from the oil and coolant reservoirs. Did you see any damage to those areas?

 

Thanks again for your help!

[Guest British_eh]

Quite. Thank you very much.

 

 

 

No effect, huh! Hmmm. How many frontal attacks? What was your hit percentage? Did the aircraft seem to slow down or lose any of its maneuverability?

 

 

 

Wow, that's a lot of shots into the wings. How many were aimed at the wing roots? That seems to be the critical area where the wings on the standard DM appear to be the weakest.

 

I'm also curious about the seeming lack of smoke from the oil and coolant reservoirs. Did you see any damage to those areas?

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

 

Hi there PW,

 

just a note. My gun accuracy is a bit OFF, so I will endeavour to be more diligent with my accuracy.

 

Only one Frontal attack, will do more on my day off. No immediate change in maneuverability, but later a bit of tail down behavior.

 

The shots don't reflect accuracy, which was generally about 25%, but actual hits. Not much smoke seen, as I thought on the Frontal attack I would have seen more.

 

Had fun in the Dr. and will do some more on Tuesday/Wednesday.

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

 

 

[GeorgeBoles 0]

Hello, Propwash.

 

I am happy to try the new DM but given my time is limited, could you let us know when it will be available for Campaign Mode? That is where I would rather use it.

 

Thanks for the interesting work.

 

Regards,

George.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I know nothing, NOTHING!!

 

Seriously, I hope to have the campaign DM ready in just a few days. I have been making a lot of little tweaks lately to many of the planes and think that most of them are just about right. However, I still haven't had a chance to test all of the planes against each other. On the Allied side, any feedback about the Camel, both of the Sopwith Strutters, and the Fe2b would be helpful. For the Entente, a little info about the Fokker EV, the Pfalz, and any of the German two-seaters would be welcome.

I'll probably release by this weekend even if I haven't finished testing, as I AM getting a little tired of all of this. I can always release an update or two if anyone finds anything peculiar. Thanks for your interest.

[Guest British_eh]

My Dear Herr Prop Wash:

 

Dr.1 vs Bristol:

L wing hits - 40, 11%, Flew on two minutes then tail down crash.

 

 

FRONTAL 48 HITS - 9% FLEW ON FOR 2- 3 MINUTES PORPOISING, THEN TAIL DOWN CRASH, NO OIL LEAK,ETC

 

 

 

FRONTAL 53 HITS - 7% - SLIGHT SMOKE, FLEW ON AND THEN SHOT AT ME, AS I SUSTAINED DAMAGE IN THE NEAR MISS

 

 

 

TAIL 34 HITS, - 5%, AND THEN 17 HITS- 5% NO DAMAGE SEEN OR NOTED

 

 

EVEN SPREAD FROM 6 - 200 HITS - 20%

 

 

 

I CAN CHECK SOME OF THE OTHERS .

 

CHEERS,

 

BRITISH_EH

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Thanks for the reports.

 

Hmmm, not sure if I like the tail down crashes. Any idea what might be causing that? My guess is that every bullet that goes into the engine results in a small loss of engine power and therefore, torque. Eventually, the engine does not have enough power to sustain lift. OTOH, shouldn't the aircraft go into a spin instead of falling tail first?? Has anyone else noticed if two-seaters tend to spin or not when damaged? Perhaps a compromise had to be made in the FM of two-seaters between stability vs. spin characteristics?

 

Also, your pics are not showing up on my computer.

[Mr. Lucky 0]

Now that we're back on damage, there is one thing I really hate. If I have a damaged wingtip, and make a good landing when I finally roll to a stop, the plane rolls over and crashes as though I rolled off a cliff. I don't mean the wing dug in as might happen, but the airplane actually rolls over and the wings break off. kind of like the guy in the yellow rain coat on the tricycle from Laugh In (for the Americans). That is the only time I resurrect (or nullify the death of) a pilot. That is the only crash and burn that I can exactly attribute to a design flaw in CFS3 and not the fortunes of war so I feel it is justified.