The Pfalz IIIa is Killing Me!

[GeorgeBoles 0]

Hi Chaps,

 

Well, I thought that since I flew Entente in Red Baron for all those years, I would go Deutsch with this time round for my first campaign. I can fly all of the old German planes (haven't tried the EIII) and of course the Fokker DVII and the DrI, but I simply cannot get around the PfalzDIIIa in any combat situation. (even against the DH2 I have major problems - against the Pup I have no chance.)

 

With almost any manoeuvre (well anything useul in a dogfight) the thing goes into a horrendous spin/flutter-spin without warning, and because it climbs like a brick, this always happens at very low level, and even if I can get the thing flying again, its elevator response is so poor that I still crash into the ground at a terrible angle.

 

Is it just the plane or is it me? I can fly the Halberstadt DII and the Albatros DII quite OK and can compete very fairly against DH2 and put up a bit of a show against the Pup with those. I wouldn't mind so much if I could sense when I was going to spin out in the Pfalz. I think I had trouble with them in Red Baron too!?

 

I have tried for a week now and am giving up, moving squadrons away from the ocean back to the mud, and only choose squadrons which have Albatros or Halberstadts. Pity. Suggestions?

 

Regards,

George.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Yep..the Pfaltz is a complete Pig in a Poke to fly.

The devs improved it slightly as well...it was even worse before that!....best avoid a turning fight with it...just try and get high, and dive on your opponents...but get the funeral procession on standby...they are gonna be real busy!!

[GeorgeBoles 0]

Good Evening, Widowmaker.

 

I am glad it is not just me. I am flying 1.46 at present, for what it is worth.

 

I have just found two posts from October which provide some assistance, one from Olham and one from Bullethead in the same thread. I guess there is hope, but I might come back to it another time. Thank goodness for the Pilot Never Dies option, or else all I would have been doing is creating new pilots - about 40 of them.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/topic/47700-flying-the-new-pfalz-d-iiia/page__view__findpost__p__343956

 

Regards,

George.

 

 

[GeorgeBoles 0]

Oh, here's a thing:

 

I haven't really got the feel for when any of the planes in OFF are about to stall. What are the clues to look for: buffeting wind noise - I can't hear any/much; increasing shaking of the aircraft - I can't see any/much; wriggles in my Force Feedback joystick (only kidding about that one)? But I sort of know when they are going to go with many of the planes ... is it there something there which I am not perceiving consciously - I doubt it though?

 

Am I not being sensitive enough to my baby in the air, or are there no/few clues?

 

Regards,

George.

[Pappy55 1]

keep an eye on airspeed.. i don't normally let it below 50

[Creaghorn 10]

Oh, here's a thing:

 

I haven't really got the feel for when any of the planes in OFF are about to stall. What are the clues to look for: buffeting wind noise - I can't hear any/much; increasing shaking of the aircraft - I can't see any/much; wriggles in my Force Feedback joystick (only kidding about that one)? But I sort of know when they are going to go with many of the planes ... is it there something there which I am not perceiving consciously - I doubt it though?

 

Am I not being sensitive enough to my baby in the air, or are there no/few clues?

 

Regards,

George.

 

usually when flying with FF joystick, you'll feel a "death-rattle" shortly before stalling. if you're sensitive enough you can dance on the edge of it (feel a slightly rattle, so adjust with pedals and let off a bit etc.), without stalling. need some practice. but of course in the heat of battle it happens now and then. sometimes this spin even saves your life, so don't hesitate to spin on purpose to shake some pursuer off.

there is also some message (red?) wich appears shortly before stalling. at least only if not switched off.

[Bullethead 12]

Am I not being sensitive enough to my baby in the air, or are there no/few clues?

 

I don't have FFB and I'm pretty deaf so if there are audible clues, I miss them. A few planes do give a few wobbles just before they stall, but it's not much and easy to miss. Thus, I judge things by eye and how the plane handles.

 

As Pappy says, to avoid stalling, stay above stall speed. The main stall speed to worry about is that for accelerated stalls in turns, not with the wings level. But I never look at my instruments during a fight. Instead, I familiarize myself with the plane and remember how its controls respond near that critical speed. I find that the best indicator is roll rate, which in most OFF planes is highly dependent on speed, whereas elevators and rudder seem to work equally well at all speeds. So, before starting a career in a plane, I do a lot of free flight QC test hops to learn the plane's characteristics and limits. When I find where it goes into an accelerated stall, I do this many times intentionally until I can recognize the roll rate associated with that airspeed. This roll rate will almost always be significantly lower than when you're at a safe speed and eventually you'll know immediately when you're getting close to it.

 

I find this a pretty good system. I see the enemy off to one side and want to turn toward him. As I start to bank, still looking at the badguy, I can tell right off how close I am to the accelerated stall speed, so depending on that, I'll not push things so hard or perhaps abort that maneuver and try something else (like running away).

 

 

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

I found this thread interesting, even though I've yet to try the DIIIa in OFF.

 

Over in that "other WWI flying sim", the DIIIa is about the only plane I can reliably fly a complete mission in without spinning into the ground.

[Pappy55 1]

I found this thread interesting, even though I've yet to try the DIIIa in OFF.

 

Over in that "other WWI flying sim", the DIIIa is about the only plane I can reliably fly a complete mission in without spinning into the ground.

 

Same with me in the SE5a

 

I am somewhat at ease in it

[carrick58 23]

Spining is a problem But it has to be faced. The Pfalz IIIa is a flying Brick Stay High and dive and always have a Grave digger standing by for U

[GeorgeBoles 0]

I judge things by eye and how the plane handles.

Thanks for that Bullethead: a well-considered bit of advice, especially about roll rate vs rudder & elevator response.

 

Thanks too to the other contributors for your assistance.

 

Salute,

George.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Hello George,

 

In addition to staying above 50 mph and watching the roll rate (great advice, Bullethead), there is something else you can try, but some might consider it to be unrealistic. Try going into the \OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields\sounds folder and increasing the volume on the stall.wav file. The stock sound is fairly quiet, IMO.

[Fortiesboy 3]

Thanks for that Bullethead: a well-considered bit of advice, especially about roll rate vs rudder & elevator response.

 

Thanks too to the other contributors for your assistance.

 

Salute,

George.

 

Yes - That is good advice re this problem, which i find is also not just confined to the pfalz.

Many of the german planes seem to me to be modelled under power. The Dr1, pfalz and some Albs.

Have a look at the RPMs - Planes meant to be 1200 max are barely 1000, some at 1400 max are at 1200 etc.

And, together with a poor roll rate ( Dr1) -and I will take a fly of the pfalz re this - this can give you a bad start against the AI FMs.

 

Because i fly almost only CFS3 QC, I can fly some planes which I've managed to mod- got more RPM and in the case of the Dr1, which rolls like a Sherman, I've got that with more aileron authority.

 

Just to say though, that even with these mods, this new non aggressive AI is brilliant.

in dogfights where there are more AI than you.

I usually start at 10000 ft, against two or three Ace AI, and on full real, no aids, external views, messages , labels etc etc, I invariably lose.

Seems whilst I am trying to line up on one, the other is lining up on me. If I sus him I usually lose the target and so I have to find and deal with one pretty quick before the other finds me.

And they do that better because they stay high in this non aggressive AI.

So that's why i need fully revved planes.-lol

15 and 20 minute dogfights are leaving me knackered!

Great fun!

Edited January 8, 2010 by Fortiesboy

[+Polovski 441]

The RPM will drop with alt FB, but even if it doesn't show it's stated RPM, the performance of the craft is correct. We have added turbo to many to help with altitude performance and to give a way for engine type and carburettor type/performance for various types to be accounted for given there are no settings in CFS3 for things like that (with great help from Bletchley).

 

So the performance of the engine gives max alt, speed, climb etc corrected for craft/engine type and carburettor type/performance for various types. It may SOUND like it isn't due to the revs matching up with engine sound but the performance is usually correct where possible.

 

So it's not always black and white and you are getting the correct performance usually, DH5 excepted, this has been improved for the next patch.

 

Pfalz was similar to DIII in performance with much better dive - but in the field most pilots reports are they were much inferior in climb and turn due to becoming much worse quickly with weathering, and many were supplied with poor reconditioned engines etc. Make sure you have the latest patches installed as performance was improved.

[Pappy55 1]

Hello George,

 

In addition to staying above 50 mph and watching the roll rate (great advice, Bullethead), there is something else you can try, but some might consider it to be unrealistic. Try going into the \OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields\sounds folder and increasing the volume on the stall.wav file. The stock sound is fairly quiet, IMO.

 

In sims I think we are allowed compramises.. In a real aircraft you can feel what the aircraft is up to. In a ww1 crate you would feel the aircrtaft stalling in the heat of battle all we get is is a smal rumble in a FFB stick (if you are lucky enough to own one) and a smal visual warning if enabled... I don't think think the realism nazis will hunbt you down for making it easier to identify a stall...

Edited January 8, 2010 by Pappy55

[ConradB 0]

With the Pfalz DIII, and DIIIa, gain altitude and try to keep it. Use a diving tactic to pounce on the E/A, but at all costs, avoid the turn fight. It doesn't manouever worth a damn. Great for balloon busting though, as it was like the SPAD in a dive. Won't shed the lower wing(s) in a powerdive. But it is definitely not a stay and linger type, unless you wish to keep the gravediggers busy. When flying the type, I will use boom and zoom attacks, and if the situation is is such, after making 1 pass, dive for the nearest airfield and pray. The wingmen are foolish to stay and fight with the Pfalz.

 

The plus side, of the plane, it is very sturdy compared to Albatros Fighters. It dives well, which is good for slashing attacks, and shooting gasbags.

 

Drawbacks to the type, is that the plane trades agility for sturdiness, and could have used the either the 185 or 200 hp inline engines. The type would have really benefited from a v-type powerplant, all-be-it a major undertaking in the redesign of the nose would have been required.

 

Hey FB, just pretend the Pfalz company provided you with our own personal uprated DIIIa with either of the above mentioned engines. Kinda like Adolph Galland had a 109 that used 96 octane gas instead of the standard 87 rating. I think he even used one that burned 100 octane gas. Same gas I used in my 1968 Torino that ran a 429 cu. in. V8 Cobrajet.

[Fortiesboy 3]

 

 

Hey FB, just pretend the Pfalz company provided you with our own personal uprated DIIIa with either of the above mentioned engines. Kinda like Adolph Galland had a 109 that used 96 octane gas instead of the standard 87 rating. I think he even used one that burned 100 octane gas. Same gas I used in my 1968 Torino that ran a 429 cu. in. V8 Cobrajet.

 

Lol= Yes, don't worry, I pretend a lot , especially if I am bruno stachel in the pfalz.! In order to fly as well as him, well almost, I have upped the revs to 1400 ( the spec is 1440), got a bit more roll and a little less elevator, so that helps.

 

You know, this new less aggressive AI is really growing on me in CFS3/QC

I just took on 2 Camels in MVR's souped up DR1, which he let Bruno

borrow for saving his life ( they didn't show that bit in the film, it was left on the editor's floor- ahem ! ),

Anyway, after 10 minutes Bruno smoked one which hightailed it, then he

saw the other below in a spin, then lost it against the trees.

_ And that's using a 5ft projector screen! =

 

On engine tickover, Bruno's looking for him for s few minutes, when it turns out that the blighter had doubled back and was diving on our hero, who got his arse shot away.!

Manfred was really pleased !!

 

How's that for easy, "non aggressive" AI? Excellent says I, but you got to leave all the aids behind and play full real.

 

Some sim, is this!