Attempt at Crash Smoke

[Bandy 3]

After Laton's post and brief discussion of the variables involved in crash smoke effects, I tried my hand at the numbers. Amazing that even something so simple has so many variables...

 

I managed to give it a more oily heavy look with the wind blowing it around at times and dispersing it. The images are stills of course, so you can't see how it moves with the whims of the wind.

 

Would appreciate any feedback, of course it may not be to everyone's taste. Also wondering if it works well with other effects; I noticed there may be a disconnect when a heavily burning and smoking aircraft hits the ground. I tried it out mostly by hitting the turf on take off to speed up the process...

Attached below.

 

Crash Fire & Smoke Feb27.zip

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi Bandy.

 

Nice effect!

 

'Scuse my ignorance...Is this for FE2 only?

[Bandy 3]

Thanks for reply Bucky,

 

I fully acknowledge the inspiration of Laton in my first attempt, thank you!

 

No I don't own FE2 yet, so this was modded in FE, but should work in either version AFAIK. Please, somebody confirm though. The only difference will be that FE2 will have that crash LOD at the base of the smoke and fire.

 

Just to my eye this version looks a little more natural to have the smoke a bit heavier and closer to the ground. It looks less like factory chimney smoke when a few AC are burning in the same area.

 

It is difficult to get the smoke to disperse in a visually realistic way and still not put a strain on the CPU/GPU. I'm not entirely satisfied with this version, but it was the end of the weekend and I was hoping for feedback.

 

What I also did was lower the frequency of the emitter (fewer smoke particles but bigger and more diffuse) and shortened their life span, so there is "room" for increasing the effect without excessive load. Please let me know what you experience.

 

Not that I need to say this to anyone, but back up original effects ini files please just in case!!!

Edited March 2, 2010 by Bandy

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi Bandy.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

Personally, just by way of a suggestion, I think it might look a tad more natural if the plumes weren't quite so deeply black and dense. I've only actually seen the effect once in about 12-15 'Single Mission' scenario's, but what I did notice was that the smoke stood out a little unnaturally,...in stark contrast to the terrain colour fade towards the horizon.

 

I'm wondering if by lightening the smoke plume colour a little, it might negate that effect somewhat?

[Bandy 3]

I hear you on the distance issue. I noticed that as well. And no worries, constructive criticism is great! It certainly is better than no comments; that sort of leaves you wondering...

 

The terrain has aerial perspective (colours wash out, things are less defined as they approach the horizon) but the crash smoke effect does not. It is the same with all aircraft smoke effects, bomb blasts, etc. AFAIK (i.e. in sim aerial perspective does not affect them, they are not terrain objects), so there are inherent in-game limitations.

 

Smoke that is diffuse enough not to stand out like-a-sore-thumb at a distance looks pretty d@mn weak up close. It is a balancing act but I will endeavor to try to reach a compromise. I'll ask TK if there is any way to get smoke effects to behave like the terrain.

[+Tailspin 3]

Looks good, Bandy. Do you all think maybe reducing the max visible distance would help. As it is now you can see the smoke plumes way beyond the visible "horizon" and at extreme distances it looks like the plumes are hanging in the air. Of course reducing the distance would likely cause the smoke to "pop" into view suddenly.... Haven't tried it out myself. Also about the winds. Didn't the prevailing winds flow from West to East or vice versa? The base wind direction is set to North.

[JFM 18]

Hello,

 

Let's cut to the chase--I barely know how to send email, let alone mess with files. I put your smoke into the effects folder (FE1) and then went and shot down some wingmen real fast to see the effect. Nada. Please tell me the proper location for this file.

[Bandy 3]

Good point TS, I saw that visible distance variable but left it alone. I'll see what that can do to help resolve it, but it will result in pop-up if you happen to be looking in that direction as you cross the threshold.

 

This was always an issue with FE, at least in the early days, and especially with the horizon band being so wide. You could see bomb blasts hovering in the haze, etc. If you use Stary's tweak to reduce the horizon band this is ameliorated for the most part.

 

As far as wind direction goes, the variable that provides the natural "smoke blown-in-the-wind" effect (sometimes looks like a slow snaking motion) simply provides a chance for the smoke emitter to change it's direction slightly from what it was prior to the "challenge". I do not know if the default emitter is actually tied to the wind direction, that would be cool attention to detail, though I wouldn't rely on the smoke path/direction for navigation .

[Bandy 3]

Let's cut to the chase--I barely know how to send email, let alone mess with files. I put your smoke into the effects folder (FE1) and then went and shot down some wingmen real fast to see the effect. Nada. Please tell me the proper location for this file.

 

OK you say you tried the Effects folder already. Hmmm, have a look in there to see if you have the stock files, or Laton's modded files, and if so make sure you back the regular ones up. Try the download again perhaps.

 

OK, I just downloaded it myself, unzipped or unpacked the file with Stuffit (or you could use 7-zip, both are free unzipping utilities that you need to download) and I got a folder (named "For posts") that contains the ini files. These files are what you need to put in the Effects folder.

 

Sorry if this is not working for you, or if my description of unpacking utilities is not relevant.

 

@ ANYONE: It has been so long since I implemented Laton's crash smoke mod that I can't remember, is there a need to include the crashsmoke.ini in the effect.ini list??? I'm at work (shhh) so can't check right now. This could be the issue JFM.

 

Thanks for posting.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Bandy

[Southside Bucky 1]

@ ANYONE: It has been so long since I implemented Laton's crash smoke mod that I can't remember, is there a need to include the crashsmoke.ini in the effect.ini list?...

 

 

 

Yep!...Just to confirm:

 

You'll need the file; 'AircraftExplosionEffect' available in Laton's upload; 'Crash' or 'Crash 2' (two versions), available in this thread:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/topic/42296-persistant-smoke-from-downed-aircraft/page__p__311980__hl__smoke__fromsearch__1entry311980

 

Use it in conjunction with the two files Bandy uploaded here. Place all three in your 'Effects' folder.

 

 

 

Bandy. One other thought:

 

Do you think the plumes might be too long? Maybe they'd look more natural if they rose, then dissipated at (say) fifty scale feet, rather than what looks like the 200 feet or more they rise to ATM?

Edited March 2, 2010 by Southside Bucky

[JFM 18]

Thanks, gents! (Notice how I don't come here screaming and cursing that something doesn't work? I *know* it's user error!) I just grabbed Laton's effect so I'm off to check it out.

[+Tailspin 3]

Good point TS, I saw that visible distance variable but left it alone. I'll see what that can do to help resolve it, but it will result in pop-up if you happen to be looking in that direction as you cross the threshold.

 

This was always an issue with FE, at least in the early days, and especially with the horizon band being so wide. You could see bomb blasts hovering in the haze, etc. If you use Stary's tweak to reduce the horizon band this is ameliorated for the most part.

 

As far as wind direction goes, the variable that provides the natural "smoke blown-in-the-wind" effect (sometimes looks like a slow snaking motion) simply provides a chance for the smoke emitter to change it's direction slightly from what it was prior to the "challenge". I do not know if the default emitter is actually tied to the wind direction, that would be cool attention to detail, though I wouldn't rely on the smoke path/direction for navigation .

 

Ahhhh...OK. Occasionally you will see the original crash smoke "bending" in a certain direction. I just assumed the "wind" was doing it.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

IMHO, this smoke is too much (even the default one is too much).

 

What you have here is basically a petrol-fueled fire spreading to some wood and canvas. It is a better campfire in size, not an industrial factory fire. In my time at the Fire Brigade I never saw such simple things burn so darkly and oily.

 

I think going in the other direction would be a worthwhile exploration - lighter, grey smoke, but if possible some kind of flames, higher flames.

[Bandy 3]

In reply to the last two comments from TS and Helmut.

 

I do believe the sim wind takes the smoke in its path! The only things I changed to get it to be affected by the wind more was to increase the smokeweight variable (name escapes me), and increase the chance of the smoke particles being affected by random changes in direction. AFAIK the wind is a constant force in sim and does not generate any gusts, this random chance variable only simulates wind gusts on the smoke. In my opinion it looks really nice.

 

As far as smoke intensity goes, I agree this is not an industrial fire, but it is an intense fire fueled by petrol, wood, canvas, dope, paint, an engine, rubber tires, etc. since airplanes are composed of a range of materials, and then the fire will spread to ground materials which indeed would produce more gray smoke in time, but this change in smoke colour cannot be modeled. Nor can the particle emitter be turned off once it is started, it is a code limitation.

 

As mentioned I did reduce the length of time particles "survive" and made it more diffuse at the terminus of the smoke column (I hope that is obvious), and will endeavor to meet your suggestions to keep it more real, just keep all the other variables in mind too. In fact I'm going to see if there are any period images of crashes and smoke to try to find where the reality is. If somebody has knowledge already, please share.

 

Thanks gents, all good food for thought!!!

Edited March 3, 2010 by Bandy

[+quack74 329]

Hey all . This is good stuff. We all know sometimes an aircraft will explode in mid air leaving this fire and smoke effect suspended where the explosion took place. However, if any of you use a new "balloon fire effect" I think done by Stary (not sure), You'll notice the fire and smoke effect of the destroyed balloon seems to have a gravity effect. It will burn and smoke falling to the ground slowly then disappear. I dont know too much about effects perameters, but does someone know if a "weight" perameter could be added to the crash fire and smoke effect to make it fall to 0 altitude? Having suspended smoke p,lumes at 2000ft in the middle of some good dogfights is kind of anoying Just a thought.

[Bandy 3]

There is a smoke particle weight variable. In Laton's effect he has it very light so the smoke particles go straight up for the most part. I made the smoke more dense so it crawls along the ground more and only occasionally goes straight up with the random direction variable. Unfortunately the smoke particle weight variable cannot be changed over the course of time, and there is no variable to turn off the smoke emitter itself say after 5 minutes (which would be perfect).

 

My take on the mid-air aircraft explosion and the continuing smoke hanging in the air is that the emitter is created at the site of the aircraft crash, whether it is in the air or not. In the case of a burning balloon it falls and burns the same as an aircraft falling and burning, leaving smoke behind. When the balloon hits the ground there is no emitter coded for a continuing crashsmoke or crashfire, so that is why it disappears.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Bandy

[Bandy 3]

Shamelessly lifted images.

1. Likely from a movie still, so reality of smoke produced is unknown. But even the small rubber tires on all WWI aircraft would produce a lot of black smoke I would think.

 

2. Most WWI crash images from a simple online search (over lunch at work) turned up trashed aircraft with no evidence of burning. Hopefully I, and others, can add more images later...

 

3. Is that a Nieuport 11 or 17 judging by the square fuselage frame and tail?

 

4. image looks heavily retouched.

 

5. a modern crop duster, thought I should include it just for comparison.

 

6. crash smoke from IL2. THIS is the effect I was going for initially, then saw what I could do with the wind effect and really liked it.

 

1.

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4.

5.

6.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Bandy

[Spad13 0]

That first image is a still from "The Blue Max". Note the camouflage pattern and the Maltese style crosses on a Fokker D-VII.

 

I've downloaded a lot of the wonderful mods you gents have made- except for the bloodcurdling scream. But after reading these postings I'm still not sure if folks are satisfied with the results or not.

 

Believe me, I have nothing but kudos for those of you who take the time to make these.

[Mike Dora 171]

OK you say you tried the Effects folder already. Hmmm, have a look in there to see if you have the stock files, or Laton's modded files, and if so make sure you back the regular ones up. Try the download again perhaps.

 

OK, I just downloaded it myself, unzipped or unpacked the file with Stuffit (or you could use 7-zip, both are free unzipping utilities that you need to download) and I got a folder (named "For posts") that contains the ini files. These files are what you need to put in the Effects folder.

 

Sorry if this is not working for you, or if my description of unpacking utilities is not relevant.

 

@ ANYONE: It has been so long since I implemented Laton's crash smoke mod that I can't remember, is there a need to include the crashsmoke.ini in the effect.ini list??? I'm at work (shhh) so can't check right now. This could be the issue JFM.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

 

Hi Bandy et al,

 

I'm still catching up on months of mods & updates. Been trying this one, placed both your files and Laton's 'AircraftExplosionEffect' in the Effects folder, but don't seem to be getting the desired result (I'm testing by deliberately crashing on take-off).

 

Is there a file that I need to edit (eg an "effect.ini list") to get this mod to work right?

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[Bandy 3]

Hi Mike, what Bucky says in post#10 above. You have to have the other 3rd party effects installed to make this work, then try replacing the ini's found here. If you're using FE2, then it just may not work...

 

Going to finally make the switch over to 2 myself...

[Mike Dora 171]

Thanks Bandy

 

But tried that - loaded files from Laton's Crash.rar then Crash2.rar first, but they're not working (I'm still with FE1 BTW). Tried all the permutations I think. I get the explosion, and immediate smoke & dust, but then the initial smoke fades then.. nada. Even with the basic "Crash", I'm not even getting the Small Ground Fire.. ??

 

Is there some _other_ file or thing that I'm missing?

 

Mike

[Bandy 3]

Is there some _other_ file or thing that I'm missing?

 

Mike

 

Can't say for sure Mike, I'll have a look later in my FX folder when at home, but after installing Laton's base file(s) it should be a simple substitute. Does his original crash/smoke still work?

Edited May 18, 2010 by Bandy

[Mike Dora 171]

Can't say for sure Mike, I'll have a look later in my FX folder when at home, but after installing Laton's base file(s) it should be a simple substitute. Does his original crash/smoke still work?

 

That's my prob Bandy, I can't even get Laton's original crash smoke to work. When planes crash there's a big bang and lots of smoke, then the smoke fades right out. Maybe I have an incompatible prior mod - trouble is with all these mods that eventually you lose track!

[Mike Dora 171]

Matter of interest Bandy, what does [GameObjectEffect] of your AircraftObject.ini file look like? Mine is this:

 

[GameObjectEffect]

ObjectFireEffect=AircraftFireEffect

//ObjectFireSound=

ObjectFireSound=Fire

ObjectExplosionEffect=AircraftExplosionEffect

ObjectExplosionSound=SmallExplosion

ComponentDetachEffect=AircraftDetachComponentEffect

ComponentDetachSound=SmallExplosion

ComponentShrapnelCount=0

DamageShrapnelFactor=0.0

MaxDamageShrapnelCount=0

 

 

 

Wondering if there's something in there, or _not_ in there, that's not allowing Laton's crash fire effects to work?

 

Mike

[Bandy 3]

Got me at work on lunch again. Will have to wait to have a peek for you, but hopefully somebody can help before then.

 

BUT to my memory my FE install does not have a burning sound; try deactivating that.

 

I hear you about the multi-mods...