Historical-War Based Video Games ~ Good-Bad-Worthwhile?

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I don't enter pissing contests while Jousting...rusts the armour you know.

:rofl:

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Violent crime is sadly a fact of life.

Boils down (yet again) to greed

[12oclockhigh 0]

So much for the lack of violent crime in the United States

 

http://www.policefor...92007143035.pdf

 

 

uncleal, first of all I did not say there was a lack of violent crime in the United States. I really expect more from you sir. Second of all if you cherry pick data it is easy to present a strong case for your own point of view. This four year old PERF report you link to only includes data from 56 jurisdictions with populations over 70,000. There are 200 plus cities with over 100,00 people that they've conveniently left out of the report. New York city for one. Why? Did homicides drop in those jurisdictions?

I also took a quick look at their methodology. They report the change in the number of crimes but don't tie that to population changes. That's shoddy but what one would expect from an organization that has a vested interest in raising money 'to fight crime.' Go to the Federal Bureau of Investigation-Uniform Crime Reports if you are interested in genuine fact checking.

Edited April 15, 2010 by 12oclockhigh

[12oclockhigh 0]

Once again please provide a link to back up your statements, if only because talk is cheap. I didn't bother to read past the bold print obviously, you did. So surely you must know of what you speak, but without a link it is bound to remain a mystery

 

 

www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm - United States

[rabu 9]

I noticed that too, the data presented in Uncleal's link is misleading. This link at Wikipedia is full of working links and a good summation of crime in the USA by year, type, etc.(click here) Violent crime has actually gone down from the 1990 up to 2008.

 

Course, that doesn't mean the advent of video games, about the same period, caused the decrease, that would also be a faulty assumption too.

[Flyby PC 23]

Works for me.....

[12oclockhigh 0]

A working link, if it's not to much to ask

 

 

My link

[rabu 9]

See . . . . that was easy

 

It was easy before, it worked fine before.. you probably pasted in "-United States" after the actual link, "www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm" ..no wonder you're having trouble finding reputable, reliable information.

[rabu 9]

If the link was posted in #45, we could have eliminated a lot of needless squabbles. Sort of like President Clinton's health report, we're still waiting. or John Kerry to sign the release for his military records to the public, again we'er still waiting.

 

Actually the original was never ID'd as an external link by Combat Ace. Exactly how many hoops must I jump through in pursuit of the truth ?

 

Post #67 he posted the link: www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm - United States

 

Post #68 you quoted his good link, and yet you said, "A working link, if it's not to much to ask"

 

Seems pretty simple, and clear to me. Changing the subject to more political mud throwing/smear statements has nothing to do with it.

 

Again, lets get back on track with the thread subject, OK? Thanks, Uncleal

[catch 81]

Exactly how many hoops must I jump through in pursuit of the truth ?

 

You can't handle the truth. So just keep going to your biased agenda-driven conspiracy sites along with your extremely vocal right wing conservative wingnut fruitcakes. You are learning nothing but hate. Have a go at me by all means. A personal attack. Fine. But don't peddle your bullschit political beliefs here please.

Edited April 16, 2010 by catch

[+Polovski 456]

Oddly this is moving off topic guys, get back on or we need to close it.

[OvS 8]

Oddly this is moving off topic guys, get back on or we need to close it.

 

I agree... why the heck does everything have to turn political here... please keep the politics to a bare minimum. The hint of it is OK, but the outright diving into is really weighing down on the conversations.

 

 

OvS

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Ok, in the hope of saving, what is, an extremely interesting thread....I don't believe that Video games are responsible for violent behaviour at all.

 

When you look at how violent Human History has been, video games have been with us from the late 1970's...which is nothing at all in a timescale.

 

You will always get the odd fruitcake, who will cause mayhem, and it will be put down to a GTA type game...or a wingnut who gets high, listening to Thrash Metal songs, and go and kill someone......but 99.99% of humans, are rational enough to see the difference between fantasy and reality.

[Von Paulus 8]

Ok, in the hope of saving, what is, an extremely interesting thread....I don't believe that Video games are responsible for violent behaviour at all.

 

When you look at how violent Human History has been, video games have been with us from the late 1970's...which is nothing at all in a timescale.

 

You will always get the odd fruitcake, who will cause mayhem, and it will be put down to a GTA type game...or a wingnut who gets high, listening to Thrash Metal songs, and go and kill someone......but 99.99% of humans, are rational enough to see the difference between fantasy and reality.

 

I think we'll never know for sure. Probably violent people will play video games. But I too don't believe that's can be a main cause for more violent behavior.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

We are by nature a violent species, and we began illustrating that in our technology from the beginning. Oral history passes down tales of great battles in native cultures, as do ancient pictograms and hierogryphlics. When we began writing and printing books, some of the favorite topics were war, and death, and killing. Same subject matter served as a mainstay when we developed the ability to make movies. Radio brought such stories into the average home in the first part of the last century, and television introduced yet another aspect of depicting violence into those same homes. Now it's video and computer games, and the argument against them is the same argument that was made against other past depictions of violence in our technology. It would be nice if we as a species could separate ourselves from our violent nature, but I don't imagine that will ever happen as long as the human race exists. All we can do is what we have been trying to do for centuries, suppress our violent side when living in a civilized setting. Conversely, we have also set that violent side free when we feel we have to fight for survival of our way of life, and then we find ways to justify the violence. We are a complicated lot.

 

.

[Von Paulus 8]

.

 

We are by nature a violent species, and we began illustrating that in our technology from the beginning. Oral history passes down tales of great battles in native cultures, as do ancient pictograms and hierogryphlics. When we began writing and printing books, some of the favorite topics were war, and death, and killing. Same subject matter served as a mainstay when we developed the ability to make movies. Radio brought such stories into the average home in the first part of the last century, and television introduced yet another aspect of depicting violence into those same homes. Now it's video and computer games, and the argument against them is the same argument that was made against other past depictions of violence in our technology. It would be nice if we as a species could separate ourselves from our violent nature, but I don't imagine that will ever happen as long as the human race exists. All we can do is what we have been trying to do for centuries, suppress our violent side when living in a civilized setting. Conversely, we have also set that violent side free when we feel we have to fight for survival of our way of life, and then we find ways to justify the violence. We are a complicated lot.

 

.

That leads us to a side question; what is the nature of war? Is it political? Cultural?

If it is cultural, than we hardly will avoid it and with it.

What about violence? Is there more than one nature?

Edited April 16, 2010 by Von Paulus

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Yes.

 

.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I am so glad I don't live next door to this clown.

And I am not a liberal either....but your neighbour is quite clearly a Muppet.

 

Guns are banned totally in the UK...and guess what?....Very few people get shot!....amazing, but true!

If you have guns all over the place...you will get people getting shot all over the place...which is exactly what happens in the States.

You guys really have never got over the whole Cowboy thing really have you?

 

The beauty is...if you have a gun in Public here...the Police will shoot you!...because, you are an armed and dangerous criminal!

 

QED

Edited April 16, 2010 by UK_Widowmaker

[rabu 9]

I am so glad I don't live next door to this clown.

And I am not a liberal either....but your neighbour is quite clearly a Muppet.

 

Guns are banned totally in the UK...and guess what?....Very few people get shot!....amazing, but true!

If you have guns all over the place...you will get people getting shot all over the place...which is exactly what happens in the States.

You guys really have never got over the whole Cowboy thing really have you?

 

The beauty is...if you have a gun in Public here...the Police will shoot you!...because, you are an armed and dangerous criminal!

 

QED

 

 

You're lucky you live in the UK.. killings by shootings happen almost every week around here!

Uncleal: Now we're going to stray over to guns and yet again, liberals.. thanks for ignoring everyone's wishes.

 

Anyway, again, Uncleal, you're off base with your assumptions and evidence.. or lack of evidence.

 

Here's a good link with rebuttles to most of the arguments for free gun use by gun toteing Americans (click).

 

A quote, Re Australia: ""The claim that following the gun ban Australia experienced big increases in crime has been refuted as an urban legend at www.snopes.com, a website that is devoted to exposing urban legends. "Given this context, any claims based on statistics (even accurate ones) which posit a cause-and-effect relationship between the gun buyback program and increased crime rates because 'criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed' are automatically suspect, since the average Australian citizen didn't own firearms even before the buyback." (source). Australia's homicide rate is lower than the homicide rate in the US and there has been little variation in Australia's homicide rate since their gun buyback (source). Not surprisingly, the National Rifle Association didn't let the facts get in the way of its claims that stricter gun laws had caused an increase in crime in Australia. Attorney-General of Australia, Daryl Williams, pointed out in letter to Charlton Heston that "firearms are being used less often in murder, attempted murder, assault, sexual assault and armed robbery in 1998 compared with 1997." He also stated in his letter, "The 54 firearm-related homicides in Australia in 1998 equate to a rate of only 0.28 per 100,000 people. I have been advised that this compares to a rate which is in the order of 4 per 100,000 in the United States. Now that you have the facts, I request that you withdraw immediately the misleading information from your latest campaign."" Also, the gun buy back was not successfull or managed well.

 

Look at other countries that regulate guns heavely like Japan, and you will again see very low violent crime rates.

 

I don't think that video games have actually had an effect on gun use or crime with most people, but I think that un supervised exposure by young kids, say under 15 is not good, simply because young kids are really impressionable.

Edited April 16, 2010 by rabu

[Von Paulus 8]

I don't think that video games have actually had an effect on gun use or crime with most people, but I think that un supervised exposure by young kids, say under 15 is not good, simply because young kids are really impressionable.

Well I really don't now. These reminds me the silly polemic about toy guns, and how we shouldn't give to the kids those kind of things.

I agree that things today seems to be more... unbalanced, but... I really don't know if we aren't overreacting.

About the control of guns, that's another matter, and while I understand the "Home of the Brave" concept, I think that the access to the guns should be controlled. But that's another matter and it's an US problem. Most north western countries have restrict policies about the use and the access to the guns. That seems to be the right way.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Von Paulus

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I have to agree totally with Rabu on this.

 

The UK at the moment, has a rather unpleasant 'Knife Culture' amongst some of it's younger Inhabitants.

 

There are Knife Killings in the UK, and it is a worrying trend.

I myself, have been in the vacinity of a shooting incident, just last year...where two men entered the Bar I was having a Beer in, and shot a guy twice with handguns.

The guy survived.

 

It Convinced me of one thing!

 

Even if the other people (or indeed the victim) had been armed to the teeth with guns....no-one would have reacted quickly enough, to prevent it.

We are talking, over in seconds!

 

When I casually perused the website, saying how many Police Officers were killed by guns in the US alone...it shocked me to say the least!......but, of the 102 who were killed in(I think 1998) 74 were killed BY ACCIDENT!!!!

 

These are Trained, Law Enforcers!....and 2/3's either killed themselves..or were killed by someone, not intending to kill them!...... and Guns are supposed to protect people?....Rubbish!

[12oclockhigh 0]

Bill Clinton was required by Law as President of the United States to provide his medical reports. Fact is He never Did

 

John Kerry during his campaign to be President, said he would sign the release papers to his military records. Fact is he never did

 

At the the time the link was originally posted, Combat Ace fail to call it an external link

 

If any slanderous statements are in the previous three lines, please point them out, because I don't know of any

 

 

"At the the time the link was originally posted, Combat Ace fail to call it an external link"

 

 

I think Uncleal is right about this. The original 'link' I posted wasn't an external link or 'live link' I think its called and I did that purposefully. I prefer to paste URL's into my browser just because its safer and I thought Uncleal would do the same. You get to where you're supposed to go with way less chance of ending up on someone's virus laden site. Again, I don't use these 'live links' much so my terminology might be wrong.

[catch 81]

I'll listen to what Catch has to say on the subject,

 

No comment [sunglasses firmly in place and open palm held up to shield face]

Edited April 17, 2010 by catch

[rabu 9]

First off, I never mentioned Australia's crime rate. You did, excuse me but I'll listen to what Catch has to say on the subject, as he reads the daily papers. While you only have your Liberal Blogs to provide information.

..snip...

PS . . . rabu . . don't quote me on the 05, it might've been 04

 

 

Uhh.. I never said you mentioned Australia's crime rate, the link I gave and quote I posted were about crime rate and gun use in general and was an answer to your post #63

 

As to the link confusion, I didn't realize you didn't know how to copy and paste a link into another brower window.. to me that's simple, apparently it isn't to you, I apologize,

 

And, please, don't worry, I would never quote you on any thing given as evidence on your end.

[rabu 9]

"At the the time the link was originally posted, Combat Ace fail to call it an external link"

 

 

I think Uncleal is right about this. The original 'link' I posted wasn't an external link or 'live link' I think its called and I did that purposefully. I prefer to paste URL's into my browser just because its safer and I thought Uncleal would do the same. You get to where you're supposed to go with way less chance of ending up on someone's virus laden site. Again, I don't use these 'live links' much so my terminology might be wrong.

 

Yep, I understand now, sorry, but it seems rather simple to me, to copy and paste a link, I do it all the time. I guess I just have to remember that for some people, that too is " left wing liberal" thinking and is way over their head.

 

No comment [sunglasses firmly in place and open palm held up to shield face]

 

Sorry, Catch, you're going to need arc welding glasses.