Ukrainian Parliamentary Brawl

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

If only all politicians had that much fight in them to defend their points of view... Many other parliaments give the impressions that no matter which words fly, once the work day is over they're all friends... Talk about politicians fighting, quite literally, for what they believe in!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Gepard 11,318]

It simply shows us how democratic the so called Democrats in eastern europe really are. They should never become members of the EU!

[UnknownPilot 33]

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

 

"Democracy" is a bad thing. Leads to inevitable tyranny of the majority.

 

But those politicians fighting is awesome! One should have intense passion and be willing to throw down with big issues like that are at stake. I wish the US Senate was still like that (apparently it used to be back in the 1800s where there would be cane beatings and such).

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

It completely lacks any class, dear. I should recommend other rules: one cage in the middle with plenty of melee weapons, one champion for each side, two men walking in, one man walking out. Basic European democracy before the Greeks.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

When it's Politicians fight like Schoolboys, is it little wonder, that this ex-communist sh*t-hole is f*cked?

[shotdown 8]

I should recommend other rules: one cage in the middle with plenty of melee weapons, one champion for each side, two men walking in, one man walking out.

 

At least you can have some fun with this politicians. It's much more than what we get here.

[UnknownPilot 33]

So much disdain for a very human, very natural act. Why?

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

So much disdain for a very human, very natural act. Why?

Quite simple really.

 

It's also a very Human, very natural act to Masturbate....but that doesn't mean it's socially acceptable for grown adults to do so in Public

[UnknownPilot 33]

Quite simple really.

 

It's also a very Human, very natural act to Masturbate....but that doesn't mean it's socially acceptable for grown adults to do so in Public

 

Only because false shame has been introduced and associated with it. Ingrained for generation after generation, just like nudity and half a dozen other taboos.

 

So what you're saying then is that you've just been taught that it's wrong to do... but nothing more substantial than that....

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Only because false shame has been introduced and associated with it. Ingrained for generation after generation, just like nudity and half a dozen other taboos.

 

So what you're saying then is that you've just been taught that it's wrong to do... but nothing more substantial than that....

 

Well, yes...as we all have... though you make it sound like I am an SS Soldier, merely 'Doing his duty' without thinking..because he's been told to...which isn't the case at all

 

Ok, Granted...how an individual sees his/her world, and the things that happen in it, would be judged by that individual as right or wrong, depending on their own core values, established through teaching, or experience.

The vast majority of us believe that Murder, theft (and all the usual anti-Social stuff is wrong)...which is why we live 'reasonably' well with each other, day to day in our socialised groups.

I am reasonably Left Wing, in that left to their own devices,I believe people will muddle along with each other for the most part, without totalitarian rules and regulations...but we need a set of core values that the majority live by...or we are back to the Dark Ages.

 

I personally think that Politicians physically fighting one another, shows a lack of maturity, which is unbecoming of someone in their position....but as you say...I have probably been taught that it is wrong...but I don't see a problem with that.

 

Do you?

[+Piecemeal 450]

I am reasonably Left Wing, in that left to their own devices,I believe people will muddle along with each other for the most part, without totalitarian rules and regulations...but we need a set of core values that the majority live by...or we are back to the Dark Ages.

 

That statement you've made is VERY true; especially in this age of increased lawlessness.

[UnknownPilot 33]

I do.

 

Any act of aggression, indeed, any act of manhood or manliness is seen as "immature", and "unnecessary" and "out dated" or even outright "barbaric" today. In fact competition itself is all but banned these days.

 

Bear with me, it may seem like I'm talking about totally disparate things, but I'm not.

 

It's natural to want to be an individual yet within a group. It's natural for boys and men to compete with one another in everything from trivia to fist fights. It's natural for males to get involved in an argument and for things to escalate to the point of violence.

 

It's also natural for a man to want to protect his mate, provide for her (ie, housewife), have her take his name, and have her raise the kids while he goes out and provides and defends.

 

But today? Dodgball is banned in schools. Musical chairs has enough chairs for everybody at all times. Everyone gets participation trophies just for being involved. Grades are eliminated for a more feel good system so that nobody has to face the sting of failure or defeat. People are medicated for everything rather than dealing with the problems. If you make a gun with your finger and thumb you are EXPELLED from that school, forever. Uniforms are forced on people and sold to the parents as a "convenience" for their (the parents) sake (in the form of money and effort saved). But the real reason is tied to another aspect, often projects are implemented that make it impossible for someone to succeed on their own, you must work together, to rely on other people rather than be an individual. And of course, we all but sit around in hooded cloaks with flashlights chanting "the greater good" (ala Hot Fuzz). We also scream and shout about giving the poor money from the rich (who afterall, are evil just for being rich, the fact that they were successful means they must have cheated, while the poor, just because they are victims must have been cheated).

 

It all ties together and it's very difficult to explain, especially in text. But in short, there is NOTHING wrong with fighting. Whether you are 8 or 80. As long as you are not picking on a child (when you are an adult), or attacking a woman, what's the problem?

 

Used to be, you and another kid got into an argument that resulted in a fight, you busted each other up, and either became friends or went your separate ways. Now the cops are called in, you're both arrested and then slammed into psychiatric evaluations and drug regimines. Used to be you and your woman were out at the pub and some drunk bastard starts trying to grope her, or hell, even just insult her honor, and you'd get up in his face, escalate as necessary, and if he chose to make it physical, you'd oblige, the bar patrons would help you throw his ass out on the curb, and you'd buy a round. Now the cops are called in and you are both arrested and slammed into 12 step processes and community service on top of jail time, fines, court costs, and a permenant record.

 

It's all gone totally and completely to hell.

 

In your attempt to explain that you aren't just blindly "doing your job", you really said that you ARE. You acknowledge that you were taught that, but then trundle right along and agree with it with no substantive reasoning for it.

 

Just like when I ask people "why is it bad for little kids to hear curse words" and they stammer "it just is!" and look at me like I have 2 heads (as you must have done when reading my post. lol)

 

Sometimes you need to touch the hot burner to know WHY you aren't supposed to touch it. Sometimes you need to get blasted in the face to know WHY you shouldn't push someone over the edge. But that other person needs to be free to do so without legal and reputation issues.

 

Just because we didn't have electricity and smog in the 800s, doesn't mean they were something "beneath" us today. We aren't any different than the people who built Stonehenge. And they weren't any different than the first Cromagnons that stumbled across Neanderthals for the very first time. We have created these lies about who and what we are and now try to force it on everyone and then blithely label anyone who doesn't take to it "defective", when in fact, that just simply IS NOT true. Not in the least.

 

 

BTW, you said you were left wing, but then said something that doesn't quite flow as expected. Is this a case of left and right being different on that side of the Atlantic vs this side?

 

(BTW2 - the modern society I described is the one here, stateside, I don't know how much of that mimics over there, or how much over there has been going on for how long. Oh yeah, and it's 2 am and I'm dead tired right now too. lol)

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, it's only 12:15am here in the UK...So, I (think-hope) I am still reasonably awake enough to answer!...lol

 

Firstly, before I continue, I should say that I agree with pretty much everything you have said, and I think you may have misunderstood me to a certain extent?

 

I was only making reference to this particular incident... Not to fighting as a general rule. (although, I am quite seriously against Violence for the most part) but am adult enough to know that on occasion's it is justified.

 

It's also natural for a man to want to protect his mate, provide for her (ie, housewife), have her take his name, and have her raise the kids while he goes out and provides and defends.

 

That was the only comment you have made, that I disagreed with.

There is no evidence, that Men and Women 'naturally' have those roles.

They are 'adopted' roles of the past, yes...but are blurred more and more these days

I am happily married, and don't feel those 'natural' feelings whatsoever tbh...it kinda sounds like an episode of the Flintstones!!

 

The sort of 'Political correctness' that you mentioned however, I have no trouble agreeing with you...it is Left Wing Liberalism of the worst kind...and yes, we have exactly the same situations with the Police, Schools and Nanny State politics, that you have over there.

I was surprised that it's as bad over there...I was under the mistaken impression, that it was a UK bum deal!

 

 

So, all in all..... there's not a lot I can add really..... You have kinda pi$$ed on my Bonfire!

 

And therefore, I shall bid you Goodnight, and thanks for the conversation...it's been enlightening and interesting

Edited May 2, 2010 by UK_Widowmaker

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Damn UP,

 

That kills off the majority of a topic was planning to write after thinking about the recently closed thread during work. Perhaps tommorrow or so i'll give try again.

[+Gepard 11,318]

Violance in parliaments reminds me on the very bad old days in Germany. In 1933 the Nazis came to power by threatening the other parliamentarians by pure violance. They sent the SA troops in the Reichstag to push a law through the parliament which paved the way to a dictatorship. And it worked.

Thatswhy i dont trust "democrats" who use force and fighting in parliament.

Remember the past to avoid that it will be the future again!

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

  I don't trust the current politicians (ALL of them who are in parliament) who abhor fighting yet have made my country a member of PIGS!!! Which definitely makes those responsible a bunch of swines, no doubt about it!!!!

Edited May 3, 2010 by TX3RN0BILL

[shotdown 8]

I don't trust the current politicians (ALL of them who are in parliament) who abhor fighting yet have made my country a member of PIGS!!! Which definitely makes those responsible a bunch of swines, no doubt about it!!!!

 

As a fellow PIGSitizen I totally agree with you.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Violance in parliaments reminds me on the very bad old days in Germany. In 1933 the Nazis came to power by threatening the other parliamentarians by pure violance. They sent the SA troops in the Reichstag to push a law through the parliament which paved the way to a dictatorship. And it worked.

Thatswhy i dont trust "democrats" who use force and fighting in parliament.

Remember the past to avoid that it will be the future again!

 

Thanks Gepard...I was trying to figure out why I felt so uncomfortable with it..and you have just reminded me of why.

[UnknownPilot 33]

Thing is though, the real Nazi rise to power was not through violence at all (unless you count against themselves in the night of the long knives or whatever it was called). It was timing, political savvy, scapegoating, and training by various people, most importantly being public speaking training, and of course brilliant propaganda.

 

(VERY much like a group here in the states today, their brownshirts call themselves after a tree seed though)

 

And this also is a very different situation from what Gepard implied too. Gepard's implication is pretty much like what Lincoln did to the SC Justices "shut up or I'm imprisoning you!" - basically a person or a group, using their power (physical or otherwise), to bully another person into submission.

 

What we see in that video is equal sides who have just had it with the other and aren't going to take it lying down. Totally different thing, in every way.