Regional Air Activity & Bombers

[Ryan H 0]

Ok so I've got a Jasta 11 pilot going now, flying in mid 1917, he's been flying for 3 days now, and has 15 claimed kills. Each flight has been filled with 2 seaters / bombers, which basically means a free kill. Its a pretty big immersion killer for me to come back every flight with at least 4 kills to fill it, I dont think it was like that in real life was it? It seems like every mission its either the BE2c or FE2b; I'll come across a squadron of one of those and wipe the whole group out. My wingmen dont ever get any of the kills, they rarely shoot at them, and I'll end up bringing the whole group down. I'm curious if this means I should change air activity to light, or if this is how its supposed to be. It also seems strange that the bombers dont do anything either, they just fly along and wait their turn to be destroyed. If I were a bomber pilot and a squadron of Albatroses started closing on us, I'd do anything to at least try and get away, not just continue on straight and level. Any help or advice would be great, thanks guys.

 

OH! P.S. - To the dev's, if you start a Jasta 11 career flying the Halb., your wingmen crash into the hill at the end of the aerodrome, meaning you fly solo most of the time. lol.

[+Winder 32]

Ok so I've got a Jasta 11 pilot going now, flying in mid 1917, he's been flying for 3 days now, and has 15 claimed kills. Each flight has been filled with 2 seaters / bombers, which basically means a free kill. Its a pretty big immersion killer for me to come back every flight with at least 4 kills to fill it, I dont think it was like that in real life was it? It seems like every mission its either the BE2c or FE2b; I'll come across a squadron of one of those and wipe the whole group out. My wingmen dont ever get any of the kills, they rarely shoot at them, and I'll end up bringing the whole group down. I'm curious if this means I should change air activity to light, or if this is how its supposed to be. It also seems strange that the bombers dont do anything either, they just fly along and wait their turn to be destroyed. If I were a bomber pilot and a squadron of Albatroses started closing on us, I'd do anything to at least try and get away, not just continue on straight and level. Any help or advice would be great, thanks guys.

 

OH! P.S. - To the dev's, if you start a Jasta 11 career flying the Halb., your wingmen crash into the hill at the end of the aerodrome, meaning you fly solo most of the time. lol.

 

Hi

 

What version are you running - some fields were relocated to address this - but there may still be some...

 

As to the rest of your post if you find gunnery too easy then maybe look in workshops and play with the settings, moreover the BE2c and Fee were disastrous craft with a reputation of exactly what you see - many crews died in them....

 

There are some good two seaters and they will give you a hard time but the BE and Fee - nope.

 

As an aside yes the bombers flew relatively unaggresively - in fact this 'tactic' saw many a good pilot/crew killed in the Brisfit because the brits used it as they did the rest of their bombers - straight and level.

After a while they realised it could dogfight too and they started to do just that - but it was a great craft - the BE and Fee not....

 

HTH

 

WM

[Ryan H 0]

Thanks for your reply

 

I'm using the most current version, with HiTR installed.

[77Scout 3]

I have seen the same non-aggressive wingman behaviour in my Krauts vs Crumpets DID campaign. The Albatros wingmen generally will not attack two seaters. The wingmen have no problem going after enemy fighters. Very strange.

 

The BE2c DM might be a bit biased to flamers. Every BE2c (I mean EVERY one) I have shot down during the campaign has burst into flames on about the tenth hit.

 

It would be nice to have at least some BE2's with a rear gun ... weren't they often outfitted with a gunner in the front seat?

 

I have a hard time with the concept that BE2c's and FE2's just flew along slowly in level formation and would let a single enemy fighter shoot them down four at a time, as happens in the sim. Wouldn't they at least speed up beyond a slow cuising speed and try to get away. I can't imagine they wouldn't al least try to maneuver to throw off the attackers aim. THE FE2's should try to turn and defend themselves with their front gun. They were often used as a fighter in their day, weren't they?...helping to end the Fokker Scourge? As it is now an Eindecker could knock down FE2's all day because they don't fight back...not what really happened?

 

I am tempted to try switching both planes to a fighter-bomber setting in the sqd.xdp files to see what that might do. Anyone tried that?

[+Winder 32]

I have seen the same non-aggressive wingman behaviour in my Krauts vs Crumpets DID campaign. The Albatros wingmen generally will not attack two seaters. The wingmen have no problem going after enemy fighters. Very strange.

 

The BE2c DM might be a bit biased to flamers. Every BE2c (I mean EVERY one) I have shot down during the campaign has burst into flames on about the tenth hit.

 

It would be nice to have at least some BE2's with a rear gun ... weren't they often outfitted with a gunner in the front seat?

 

I have a hard time with the concept that BE2c's and FE2's just flew along slowly in level formation and would let a single enemy fighter shoot them down four at a time, as happens in the sim. Wouldn't they at least speed up beyond a slow cuising speed and try to get away. I can't imagine they wouldn't al least try to maneuver to throw off the attackers aim. THE FE2's should try to turn and defend themselves with their front gun. They were often used as a fighter in their day, weren't they?...helping to end the Fokker Scourge? As it is now an Eindecker could knock down FE2's all day because they don't fight back...not what really happened?

 

I am tempted to try switching both planes to a fighter-bomber setting in the sqd.xdp files to see what that might do. Anyone tried that?

 

 

Its a game not real life - and at the moment as accurate as we can make it ..... there are many things that are not as human or as real as it was - including the fact that the player never dies.

 

HTH

 

WM

[Creaghorn 10]

I have seen the same non-aggressive wingman behaviour in my Krauts vs Crumpets DID campaign. The Albatros wingmen generally will not attack two seaters. The wingmen have no problem going after enemy fighters. Very strange.

 

The BE2c DM might be a bit biased to flamers. Every BE2c (I mean EVERY one) I have shot down during the campaign has burst into flames on about the tenth hit.

 

It would be nice to have at least some BE2's with a rear gun ... weren't they often outfitted with a gunner in the front seat?

 

I have a hard time with the concept that BE2c's and FE2's just flew along slowly in level formation and would let a single enemy fighter shoot them down four at a time, as happens in the sim. Wouldn't they at least speed up beyond a slow cuising speed and try to get away. I can't imagine they wouldn't al least try to maneuver to throw off the attackers aim. THE FE2's should try to turn and defend themselves with their front gun. They were often used as a fighter in their day, weren't they?...helping to end the Fokker Scourge? As it is now an Eindecker could knock down FE2's all day because they don't fight back...not what really happened?

 

I am tempted to try switching both planes to a fighter-bomber setting in the sqd.xdp files to see what that might do. Anyone tried that?

 

wingmen DO attack two seaters, but not as aggressively as they attack scouts. it's rather realistic how the wingmen behave, by stalking the twoseaters and then attacking, then after a while and turn away again and getting ready for a second pass. this is how behave wingmen who want to have a kill, and also want to survive and how a real pilot would behave. if additionally the twoseaters would be more evasive (or having the HiTR AI) or if the would start to circle and protect each others back, as it was in real, then it would also be tough to get one down and survive.

 

you also must not forget that it's easier for you to hit them from the distance because you see those ecffects of hitting them from far away. in real they didn't have a clou if they hit them or not to the moment the hostile aircraft began to smoke or fell apart ect. so they had to get really close.

 

so yes, the twoseaters could be more evasive, maybe even every now and then be aggressive.

and no, the wingmen behave like you would expect them to behave if it was in real.

[77Scout 3]

Its a game not real life - and at the moment as accurate as we can make it ..... there are many things that are not as human or as real as it was - including the fact that the player never dies.

 

HTH

 

WM

 

Oh yes, totally understood. Sorry if that all came across as negative. I was just listing problems I am seeing, while knowing full well they are not easy things to fix. Obviously a WW2 game engine like CSF3 was never intended to handle bombers that have no rear defense, so the AI flys the two-seaters like a B-17, level an slow, assuming they have a rear gun to defend them. The only solution I can envision is the switch to a fighter-bomber setting so they make some attempt at a fight, but that's just me thinking out load.

 

The AI Albatros's not attacking 2-seaters is a reality on my system. The original poster was the first person I ever heard mention it before so I wanted to chime in. Nobody else has mentioned it so seems to be a non issue for most people, or maybe most people don't fly in Albatros squadrons. Or maybe it is the AI setting...I am using 'aggressive' and Creaghorn perhaps uses 'less aggresive' or 'historical' AI so we see different behavior? Who knows.

[Pips 5]

Obviously a WW2 game engine like CSF3 was never intended to handle bombers that have no rear defense, so the AI flys the two-seaters like a B-17, level an slow, assuming they have a rear gun to defend them.

 

 

Yeah, there are some inherent limitations with the base engine that I guess the guys just can't overcome. At this stage anyway.

 

Still, there are some things that you can do to try and maintain a sence of reality. For example, when I come across a flight of Be's or Fe's, I initially lead the attack with my Kette, then sorta back-off and leave it to the wingmen to continue the attacks. Like a training flight. Occassionally the wingmen will down 1, perhaps 2 of the enemy. But it takes a while. Or, if I'm feeling aggressive, I'll practice overhead and high side passes, or stalking from below. Either way I'll only ever take down 1. Then continue on my patrol looking for more suitable targets.

 

Just try and vary things somewhat. I find it helps with the enjoyment of the sim.

[Rickitycrate 10]

To get a good idea of how the AI fighters attack the 2-seaters with rear firing gun is to go up in a 2-seater as an observer and watch the tactics of the AI fighters. Your pilot will not evade and your fellow observers will fire their guns conservatively. The attackers will perhaps make an initial dive attack but they then lose the advantage and fall in behind your flight. They pursue trying to gain the proper angle for attack or any advantage but when one gets close enough to fire at a 2-seater he is also close enough to be fired upon. With maybe 2 observers giving him some lead.