What WWI fighter is this?

[Dej 17]

See edit above

[Olham 164]

It's a Blackburn single seat Triplane. Here is some text I found about it:

 

Designed by Harris Booth, who was also responsible for the A.D. Scout, the Blackburn single-seat

fighter triplane was intended to carry a single Davis two-pounder quick-fire recoilless gun firing from

the nose of the nacelle and was conceived for the anti-Zeppelin role.

Possessing a fabric-covered airframe, the triplane was initially flown early in 1917 with a 100hp

Clerget 9Z nine-cylinder rotary engine driving a four-bladed propeller. The Clerget was soon replaced

by a Gnome Monosoupape nine-cylinder rotary of 100hp driving a two-blade propeller and the triplane

was accepted by the Admiralty on 20 February 1917, but was struck off charge as unsatisfactory four

weeks later, on 19 March.

[Olham 164]

And here is another aircraft to identify:

 

 

[Burning Beard 14]

Farman 40, Pilot Lt. Jaumotte and observer sLt. Wouters

 

 

Beard

Edited July 28, 2010 by Burning Beard

[Burning Beard 14]

What's the matter guys, no guesses on my little Nieuport? It was WWI and you should get the pilots name, location, date and even the nickname of the bird.

 

Beard

[Red-Dog 3]

]Here's one for you boy's. What is it? And what was it's nickname?

 

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

BB, the pilot is Captain K.G. Pulliam Jr., and his Nieuport seen in that photo at Issoudun, France, May 21, 1918, is called "Jazbo". Even though I'm not allowed to guess.

 

 

RedDog, I'm leaving yours alone at fear of being pounced on again by rabu...hee, hee.

 

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[Burning Beard 14]

Way to go Lou.

 

Beard

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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TKS Beard, and I forgot to mention, it is a Nieuport 27.

 

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[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Red-Dog wrote:

 

 

Here's one for you boy's. What is it? And what was it's nickname?

 

 

 

Yes, yes, I know I'm not supposed to guess, but let me just say this about Red-Dog's plane. You folks go ask Francis K. Mason about it, he can fill you in on all the details of that kite. Back in August of 1915 that bad boy was #1 with a bullet.

 

 

And that's all I'm going to say about it...well...probably not, but it's all I'm going to say about it for now.

 

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[Bullethead 12]

Actually, if you look back in the posts, I noted last evening that Bullethead's is the 1916 Lohner D.I Series 111 prototype. Here's another photo of it from a different angle

 

You are correct, Sir, which wins you a drink on me .

 

This plane's actual name was the Lohner 10.20 as it says on the fuselage. Later, after the 1st rebuilding, it was known as the 10.20A, then the 10.20B (which still bore some resemblance to this original form), and then a few more radical rebuilds, one of which warranted a separate number. None of these looked anything at all like the "production" L, which turned out to be the typical Austro-Hungarian thing with a slab-sided fuselage all the way back to a diminutive fin and rudder hung on the end, but otherwise more resonable proportions.

 

BTW,. for the curious, a lot can be learned from the serial numbers on the sides of Austro-Hungarian aircraft. In general form, they are in the format Series.Airplane Number within the Series. HOWEVER, the series was either a 2- or a 3-digit number. If only 2 digits (or 3 if they are 100), then you know it was a prototype and the 1st part of the serial number says who built it:

 

10 = Lohner

20 = Phonix

30 = Aviatik

40 = Loyd

50 = Oeffag

60 = UFAG

70 = Fischamend

80 = WKF

90 = MAG

100 = Thome & Fiala

Good thing the Dual Monarchy had only 10 native airplane-builders:rofl:

 

Things get really confusing after that, because once an airplane was accepted for production, the serial number included referrences not only to who designed it but who built it under licesne and what engine went into that type of airframe, as distinct from this slightly differenent airframe with the same engine built buy somebody else. If you understand the language, then it makes perfect sense, but suffice to say the Lohner 10.20 becoming the Lohner D.I Series 111.01 tells you all you need to know

[Bullethead 12]

Gentlemen (and I mean that as anyboby who has the foggiest notion of what we're talking about here)....

 

Anarchists are too organized for me. I'm a Paleolithic nihilist. HOWEVER, we must impose the slightest bit of order on this thread because folks are posting more questions before those before them have been answered. I suggest we adopt a rule that the person who is acknowledged by the questioner as having given the correct answer gets to ask the next question. Everybody else, try to answer the question currently under debate or keep your peace.

 

Think of it as our savage ancestors gathered around the campfire drinking pulque or mead and smoking peyote or hemp, resharpening our dart points or straightening new dart shafts, and asking riddles to pass the time before the next mammoth hunt. Everybody is armed to the teeth (which they ain't afraid to use if push comes to shove) with the sharpest edges (obsidian blades) humanity has ever created. So let 1 man ask his riddle and acknowledge the 1st guy with the correct answer, and then that winner gets to ask the next question.

 

And remember, an armed society is a polite society.

 

 

[Olham 164]

I agree about keeping this order: question asked, question answered, next question placed.

But that should include, that the confirmations come faster here - otherwise we fall asleep and into the campfire.

If it takes three days, until we get a "yes" or "no", that is too long for me.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Bullethead, great info on the aircraft numbering system used by the Central Powers during the Great War. Thanks for posting that, and I will add the following, (which I posted myself in the forums quite some time ago).

 

 

German Aircraft Designations

 

By: Tom Solinski (tskio at cox dot net)

 

 

As we approach the new millenium and the subsequent Centennial of powered flight I have noticed several aviation myths that should remain in this century

 

This short paper started off after I read an article on flying the Fokker D-VII at old Rhinebeck aerodrome. The author, the late Jeff Ethell frankly states that "D" designation of German WW-I era fighter aircraft, such as the Fokker D-VII, the Pfalz D-III the Albatros D-V, stood for "Doppledecker" or bi-plane. Looking at these examples it is easy to see how this could be accepted, because all of these aircraft were in fact bi-planes. Other Imperial German Army's aircraft designations go on to support this statement, i.e. the Fokker E-III Einedecker, (one-wing) for a monoplane and the Dr, or Dridecker (three wing) designation for the famous Fokker Dr-I of Von Richtoffen the "Red Baron".

 

But other designations make this "D" designation confusing. What about all of the biplanes that had "B, C, G, & W" designations? Why isn't there a "D" in these titles to identify them as Doppledeckers?

 

Another contradiction to this designation is found in the usually clear, specific Teutonic thinking. If they called a ONE wing airplane by the numeric title of Eine (one) and a THREE wing airplane by the numeric of Dri (three) why break convention by calling a TWO wing airplane Dopple instead of the logical, numeric Zwie (two)? After all, this Prussian logic was followed in identifying one, and two-bay rigging on bi-planes as "einstielig" and "zwiestielig" respectively.

 

I have come to believe that the correct answer to all of this is that under the Imperial German Army designation system the "D" designation of German WW-I aircraft DOES NOT stand for "Doppledecker". It stands for "Type D" aircraft, in a very organized, logical, system.

 

My research has revealed that the Inspektion der Fliegertruppen (Inspectorate of the Flying Troops) i.e.: Idflieg had an aircraft mission identification system in place as early as the fall of 1915. The system consisted of identifying the designing manufacturer by name; followed by an alphabetical mission designation (i.e. A through W) followed by a Roman numeral sequence number of that mission type from that manufacturer. This system continued to evolve throughout World War One and it eventually consisted of:

 

"Type A" A single place unarmed monoplane scout of less than 150 horsepower. Example the Pfalz A-I, & A-II.

 

"Type B" A two place unarmed biplane scout or trainer of less than 150 Hp. Example the Albatros B-I.

 

"Type C" A two place armed biplane scout of 150 Hp or more. Example the Albatros C-III.

 

"Type CL" This was a subset of the "C" type indicating "light" weight. They were developed for a new mission; to be an armed escort, or two-seat fighter. Example the Hannover Cl-III.

 

"Type D" A single place armed biplane scout of 150 Hp or more. Example the Pfalz D-III, and D-XII. However, this designation was later applied to monoplane fighters as well, i.e. the Fokker D-VIII.

 

" Type E" A single place armed monoplane scout of less than 150 horsepower. Example the Fokker E-III. Note: the Pfalz A-II became the Pfalz E-III when armed! The Fokker D-VIII was originally the Fokker E-V

 

"Type F" A single place armed triplane scout of less than 150 horsepower. The original designation for the Fokker Dr-I, was Fokker F-I.

 

"Type G" A multi place armed biplane bomber with two or more engines. Example the Gotha G-IV. This designation was originally "K" for Kampf flugzeug or battle-plane. The "G" apparently lent itself to "Grosse" or large

 

The sequence breaks down after G, skipping through the alphabet, sometimes using the first letter of the name of the mission type.

 

"Type J" A two-place, armed, and armored biplane specifically designed for the trench-strafing mission. Example the Junkers J-I

 

"Type N" A two-place, armed biplane scout of 150 Hp or more specifically designed for night bombing. Very few were produced. Example the Friedrichshafen N I

 

"Type R" "Riesenflugzeug", "Giant aircraft". A multi place armed biplane bomber with four or more engines. Example the Zeppelin-Staaken R-I.

 

"Type W" "Wasser"? A designation for all float equipped land planes or flying boats regardless of number of wings, seats, or horsepower.

 

I have two other items to support this position, of "D" being "Type D" and not "Doppeldecker". In 1918 the IDFLIEG held two "Type D" aircraft competitions. The aircraft evaluated and eventually winning werent always biplanes, but they ended up being Type D aircraft.

 

On page 19 in the book "Aircraft versus Aircraft by Norman Franks" there is a contemporary German photo of an L.V.G. B-II training aircraft. The caption printed on the negative in German reads "LVG Doppledecker, System Schneider, Schulemachine" this is clearly a distinction between the training mission and the biplane configuration of the aircraft.

 

Please note that this list applies to the official Imperial German Army designation for these airplanes once they were accepted for service. Many of the German and Austrian manufacturers had their own internal designation systems.

 

Take the case of Anthony Fokker who initially used a designation of "M" and a series number, so his companies M5K became the Fokker E-III in service. Later in the war Fokker used the designation "V". It is not clear weather this stood for Versuchflugzeug or "test aircraft" (i.e. prototype) or Verspannungsloser for "wing without bracing" as found on the Fokker D-VI and subsequent.

 

The Junkers company identified all of their prototypes with "J" not to be confused with the in service "J". Their J-4 became the operational J-I.

 

And finally, to confuse the whole issue the Brandenburg Company of Austria built an armed biplane designated "KD" for "Kampf Doppledecker" or "Battle bi-plane"

 

Some of you are probably saying to yourself, "this guy has too much time on his hands", and normally I'd agree with you on an article such as this covering this type of minutia. But, as one popular radio talk show host says, "words mean things". Aviation has always been an art and science of exacting words. If we care about aviation as our hobby, or for some of us, as our living, then we owe both the founders and our future followers a clear accurate history of aviation stomping out half truths and myths whenever possible.

 

 

As to the current exercise we have going here, I agree it would be nice to have a basic format for it. And, as Herr Olham has noted, it would be very good if those posting pictures for identification would check back in at least once a day to note if there is a correct answer.

 

 

Now, that being said, and since we seem to have no takers on Red-Dog's post, allow me to elaborate:

 

It is the Vickers E.S.1, designed by Harold Barnwell and first flown in August of 1915. For it's time it had remarkable performance and was dubbed the "Barnwell Bullet". It was fitted with the 100hp Gnome engine and had a top speed of 117 mph at sea level. The only example ever built, No. 7509, was sent over for trials in France, but was met with outspoken criticism from service pilots who complained about the poor view form the cockpit. Also, due to the first attempt at fully cowling an engine, the E.S.1 suffered from overheating. None-the-less, encouraged by the design, the E.S.2 was developed, (sometimes referred to as the E.S.1 MK II), and it first flew in September of 1915. Fitted with the 110hp Clerget in a shorter chord cowling, it also had a top wing cutout and window to improve the pilot's view. Armament was a single fixed Vickers mounted on the port side upper longeron forward of the cockpit and recessed into the nose decking, to fire forward through the propeller by means of the new Vickers-Challenger interrupter gear. Despite all the improvements the E.S.2 still met with opposition from pilots for its lack of donward visibility, and the E.S.2, (of which only two examples were produced), was abandoned. However, the experience gained by Vickers in this project led to development of later tractor scouts which began to replace the old pusher Gunbus formula by early 1916. Interestingly, both E.S.2's were assigned to service, with No. 7759 becoming the personal airplane of 32 Squadron's CO, Major Lionel W.B. Rees, at Oshel and Tressen airfields in France from May to June of 1916.

(information courtesy of "The British Fighter Since 1912", by Francis K. Mason)

 

 

 

And now you know.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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[Olham 164]

Great info like always, Lou! And since you didn't post another question, I'll take the freedom to post

another rare one here. Only three were produced. What's that plane?

 

 

[Burning Beard 14]

Armstrong Whitworth F.K.10

 

And Since we are going Multi Wing......

 

 

Beard

Edited August 1, 2010 by Burning Beard

[Olham 164]

Looks like a Pfalz Dr.1, although the picture I know shows a different cowling front.

But the wing struts would fit, so I say: Pfalz Dr.1

[Burning Beard 14]

Close but no Cigar.

 

Beard

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Olham, you are very close Sir. It is in fact the Pfalz DR2, the slightly smaller and lighter version of the Pfalz DR1. And you can see the two of them in this uncropped version of BB's photo:

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Alrighty then Gents, ID this plane and give us it's story:

 

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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[rabu 9]

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Alrighty then Gents, ID this plane and give us it's story:

 

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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Noop 11 N1324, Esc N35, shot down 6 July 1916 Kurt Student

Edited August 1, 2010 by rabu

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Absolutely spot on, rabu. Additionally, it was Student's first confirmed claim and it was shot down near Peronne. He then had a synchronised LMG 08 machine gun fitted and German markings applied, and apparently flew it in combat. Hmmmm...now I wonder which website I got this photo from?

 

OK then, your turn rabu, and I will keep mum on it as well. I promise.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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[rabu 9]

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Absolutely spot on, rabu. Additionally, it was Student's first confirmed claim and it was shot down near Peronne. He then had a synchronised LMG 08 machine gun fitted and German markings applied, and apparently flew it in combat. Hmmmm...now I wonder which website I got this photo from?

 

OK then, your turn rabu, and I will keep mum on it as well. I promise.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

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Actually, I rememberd seeing it one of my books on the Noops and found it in the Osprey Nieuport Aces book... I guess that's cheating, my memory doesn't work at all that well.

 

I'll try to find something really hard, but you guys are finding things I've never seen.. and that triplane was in the Wings of War game and I thought it was made up.... amazing!

 

Well?

Edited August 2, 2010 by rabu

[Dej 17]

First Nieuport triplane prototype, 1916. N.17 fuselage 110hp Le Rhone engine, one synchronised Lewis. Not accepted into service. Evaluated by the RFC in January 1917 and by the RNAS in March 1917, the latter having a 130hp Le Clerget and a N.17bis fuselage. In all cases its flying characteristics were found to be unacceptable.

[Olham 164]

Rabu, Rabu - you are some hero! If you leave the footnote in the picture,

it is a quick shot to just go to that site and check out, what aircraft it is!

Mmuahahahahahaaa!!!!