Holy freaking crap!

[von Baur 54]

First of all, I wonder if stupid sh** accounted for as many pilots' deaths in real life as it seems to do for me in OFF. I've been trying to make it through the war from about as early as one can go on the German side. July 1, 1915, FA62 is my chosen starting point for about 8 pilots now. Hard to go wrong with folks like Immelmann and Boelcke as your comrades (although I've yet to have the pleasure). Probably four and maybe five times I've ended with a mid-air with a Bristol Scout while trying to scissor him (I say they all ran into me, but it does take two to Tango). Once I crashed while trying to spot what was drawing all the flak above my aerodrome just after takeoff. Kind of nodded off just after leaving the ground on another occassion and embedded my machine in someone's house in downtown Douai. And most recently I rear-ended an Eindekker that was in front of me as I started my takeoff roll...verdammt taildraggers. Several of my incarnations have done rather well, though, while they lasted. A good number of kills, never lost a flight member to enemy aircraft and only one to AAA. Oddly, I had one go missing even though I know he was present over the airfield after I had landed. I even won the Blue Max with one pilot...then died the next flight (one of the mid-airs). But that's not what prompted the title of this piece.

 

 

I had completed eight missions and accumulated 9 hours of flight time with my most recent pilot. Again, I haven't lost a man (was it common for German pilots to have nicknames a la modern day pilots? If so, I'm thinking about 'Bring 'em Back Alive' von Baur. Olham, can you translate, please?) and 19 enemy aircraft (including one balloon) have fallen to my guns. Of course none of them had been confirmed. Mission number nine was a nice 90-minute recon flight about 30 miles south of Douai airfield. Small skirmish with some Bristols, I think I killed one enemy because right after my burst he started flying straight and losing height but he was not headed back toward British territory. I chose not to sacrifice 9,000 feet of altitude to watch him crash and he never caught fire, so no claim. I gathered up my gentlemen, finished the flight and we all returned to our aeordrome without further incident.

 

Upon landing the CO called me over to the Officers' mess and when I walked through the door the champagne corks flew as thick as bullets during an infantry charge. It seems that during the one hour and forty minutes I'd spent in the air word came through that I'd gotten confirmation on...hold onto your flying helmets...16 kills (counting the balloon), and been awarded two Iron Crosses, and a Royal Hohenzollern House Order!!! So again I say...holy freaking CRAP!!!!!

[Ras 0]

A great surprise Von Baur. Congratulations on your claims and your medals.

 

 

[+Polovski 460]

Well I am sure Shred or someone will have the facts but I believe huge amounts would die due to engine failure on take off or landing accidents or collisions etc. Certainly for Camel pilots around half died in training or accidents. Flying especially early was inherently dangerous let alone the bit about being shot at. Falling asleep I am sure one or two of those accidents happened too from exhaustion.

 

Congrats on your gongs!

[carrick58 23]

For Sure, accidents claimed a lot of pilots besides doing dumb things. Take off claimed some as well as the airplane falling apart in the air. Although I dont remember where, I read of Gas Leaks while airborne and Engine Rods being blown while diving in those old crates. Another thing I remember hearing or reading was a person falling out of the airplane. The early years of flight were indeed Dangerous.

 

Edited September 12, 2010 by carrick58

[carrick58 23]

This is a statement by a Squadron Commander to Crews of RE 8 s about aircraft Accidents. (found it on the Wikipedia Net )

 

Observers must be cautioned that when an aeroplane is gliding down from work over the lines they must not stand up in order to look over the pilot's shoulder for the fun of the thing, as the EXTRA HEAD RESISTANCE caused may lead to the aeroplane falling below its critical gliding speed, and so bring about an accident." The pilots name it the "Harry Tate". They really Fell out of the Sky.!

[OvS 8]

 

 

Christ, that's no way to treat a vintage airplane!!! Almost 100 years later and they still look the same when they crash. Hope the pilot was OK.

 

OvS

Edited September 12, 2010 by OvS

[Olham 164]

Again, I haven't lost a man (was it common for German pilots to have nicknames a la modern day pilots?

If so, I'm thinking about 'Bring 'em Back Alive' von Baur. Olham, can you translate, please?)

 

Well, that would be "Bring' sie heil zurück" von Baur (were "heil", from "heile", means something like "in one piece" or "unhurt").

 

Upon landing the CO called me over to the Officers' mess and when I walked through the door the champagne corks flew as thick as bullets during an infantry charge.

It seems that during the one hour and forty minutes I'd spent in the air word came through that I'd gotten confirmation on...hold onto your flying helmets...16 kills (counting the balloon),

and been awarded two Iron Crosses, and a Royal Hohenzollern House Order!!! So again I say...holy freaking CRAP!!!!!

 

Very heart-felt congratulations, von Baur!!! The mills of German burocracy may be slow, but they don't ever forget anyone.

Man, when you wrote here you wanted fly that crate in Campaign, I thought: "Huh, another such announcement, that will soon be forgotten, due to the difficulty."

But you made it so far - great!

Now, don't become careless or a hotspur, don't feel too routined. The war will be so much longer...

 

I have only recently started a pilot in MFJ-1 with the eindecker. I could now fly it - after one year with OFF P3.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Olham

[Olham 164]

Thanks for the good photograph, Carrick!

When I see pics like this one of a crashed WW1 fighter, my mind creates the nastiest pictures

of the pilot's face slamming into the windshield or - like in MvR's case - into the machine guns.

Makes you shudder...

[von Baur 54]

Thanx, Olham, for the translation. And thanx, too, for picking up on the focus of the post. While I appreciate the congrats from everyone, my main point wasn't self-promotion...I'll leave that to two gentlemen more prominent in the next war than in this, Mssrs. Patton and Montgomery. I was really aiming at the fact that all the confirmations (as well as the formal rejections of the other three claims, which I didn't mention in the initial post) came in at the same time. It's almost as if they were saving them for something special, but Christmas is months away, yet, and my birthday has passed. Well, technically speaking, it won't occur for another 39 years, but my point remains. Has anyone else experienced this mass-recognition? Is the confirmation/rejection delay sufficently random as to make this kind of 'perfect storm' potentially repeatable?

 

By all means fly the E-III. It's a lovely plane with the best all-round visibility of any in this game. Slow and under-powered, sure, but that doesn't mean it's not suitable for combat...just that you can't treat it like an F-16. And if you enlist prior the arrival of the Nieuport and DH2 you'll have little trouble contending with the Bristol Scouts, BE's and FE's. We have an advantage that the men we respect so much and try to emulate didn't...the ability to fly practice (quick combat) missions and learn the limits and peculiarities of our aircraft before taking them out 'for real'.

 

Carrick, I wouldn't put too much stock in the legitimacy of orders from commanders. While a squadron CO probably should have had enough personal experience to know what he was talking about, a large number of high-ranking officers in the air services didn't. I once read of a general in one country's air service who, upon over-hearing (and misunderstanding) pilots discussing how unsuitable wing-warping was, issued an order that "aeroplanes will not be left out in weather which might cause their wings to warp."

[Olham 164]

About the confirmation of several victories at once:

 

Yes, it happened. In my book about Ritter von Schleich, I found a confirmation of 9 victories at once.

They were his 16. - 24. victory; made 19. - 24. September 1917; confirmed on 11. October 1917.

 

Since he made so many victories in such a short time, it ain't no wonder they came all together.

[von Baur 54]

Wow!! 19-24 September (assuming that's inclusive) is exactly the same number of days as mine...2-7 July, inclusive. Six days, in each case.

[carrick58 23]

Christ, that's no way to treat a vintage airplane!!! Almost 100 years later and they still look the same when they crash. Hope the pilot was OK.

 

OvS

 

According to the report the pilot survived the Crash. T he accident was the result of power loss upon take off.

 

Von Buar: According to The Vintage Aviator : Even the Air Board of 1917 agreed that the RE 8 could not be made as safe as a BE 2 Machine and that it had been a mistake to give up the BE machine. There are reports of even Training Units had to replace the tail of the production machine with tails from a BE machine. This was due to the aircraft's Swinging Tail as manufactured which resulted in many accidents. However, Experienced Pilots could handle the machine. So the real Question, How many

Experienced RE 8 aircrew were there in 1917 ?

[Hasse Wind 46]

I wonder if the devs will find a way to make the early air war MUCH less brutal than it is currently. Now there really isn't much difference between 1915 and 1918 - the action is just as fierce in both years, though of course more common in 1918 as the planes become better and there are more of them over the front. In reality, that kind of air combat didn't really exist in 1915 - the formations weren't there, and neither the tactics. Eindeckers were deployed here and there along the front, one in that FA, two in another, a few in the third etc. No big Eindecker squadrons as we currently have in OFF. It's going to be interesting to see how things will be in P4.

 

But hey, it's always nice to see people willing to fly the early war careers. I prefer to fly on the British side in some BE2 squadron. It's quite peaceful usually, if one doesn't go looking for trouble and those big Einie formations. Congratulations on the kills!

[Olham 164]

HW: I wonder if the devs will find a way to make the early air war MUCH less brutal than it is currently.

Now there really isn't much difference between 1915 and 1918 - the action is just as fierce in both years

Hasse Wind, remeber that there is a choice in workshop between the old and new AI, and a mix, called "Historical".

That mix should give you much more passive flying enemies in the early years, a mix in 1917, and the aggressive AI in late 1917 - 1918.

If you never tried it - please do; it's noticable.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Olham

[Hasse Wind 46]

Yeah, I've been using the historical setting mostly. I agree that the less aggressive setting is best for early war, but it isn't quite enough to transform the action so profoundly as it should be if one wants to accurately simulate the early war. We would really need different formations and tactics and everything for that to happen. I do hope it's possible some day, and that we'll see it in OFF sooner or later.

 

I'd happily pay for such an improvement in the form of an expansion pack, for example, if we won't be seeing in the vanilla P4. Anything to make it possible for the devs to keep improving my favourite flight sim!

[Olham 164]

I'm sure they want to get better versions of the two AI, which make more sense.

And if it should make it more costly: don't worry, guys, I'll pay for it too.

[Guest British_eh]

Hi there,

 

While doing hours of research for the up and coming Realistic Survival Settings I have poured over many articles and found lots of interesting stuff.

 

Great record there Von Baur. It too Boelcke one year to get 19 kills in his Fokker, so in that regard you are a one man wrecking crew.

 

The British sent pilots to the Front with 14 -16 hours of flying time. Actually you were "lucky" to make it through training as accidents claimed about 25% of the lads..Burned oout Instructors from the Front lines, poor equipment, etc. were contributing factors. Then of course, the Fokker Scourge where the new pilots had a 14 day - 17 hour expected life span.

 

Anyway, it might be interesting Von Baur when we post the RSS that you create a pilot at the same Squadron and time, and see how he does?

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

[von Baur 54]

I already have all my settings at maximum realism, British_eh, and have recently decided to forego even my modified labels, except when I'm checking on the identities of my flight mates (I've not lost any yet, but I've lost track of one on two occassions). The only exception to full DiD standards I allow myself now is using the TAC to achieve my waypoints...and even that is minimal. First, it's set to the minimum range and to show only ships. Second, after hitting my first waypoint I advance it until it goes several miles out which would be the first actual navigational waypoint. Instead of the climbing triangle I gain altitude in a large clockwise circle around the airfield until I decide I've reached a good height, then I head out with my boys. Once the patrol is over and the waypoint again extends many miles away I turn it off and visually navigate home. If P4 comes with a map that accurately depicts the the ground features (roads, rail lines, rivers/lakes, towns and wooded areas at minimum; rail stations, airfields and lines of elevation to max it out) I'll probably eliminate it, too.

 

I make no claims of being Boelcke's equal, but we have a few advantages that he and von Richtofen, Ball and McCudden, Fonck and Guynemer didn't have. First and foremost we know that, no matter what, we'll be alive tomorrow, so we don't have even the slightest real fear, allowing us to be highly aggressive. It also allows us to learn from our mistakes, a luxury the real pilots didn't have. Another is the fact that we can read and learn from the book that Boelcke and the rest wrote. They had to learn it all, or more accurately make it all up as they went. And not only can we draw on their experience but also that of the men who came after them. Some of the tactics we use weren't developed until the next war. But we can't unlearn these things and so we should do better than the men who had to learn them for the first time. Add to that the fact that we're playing against programmed enemies who can't learn and adapt (as SirMike pointed out in the "claims bummer" thread) and will behave in predictable patterns and you have the makings of some high scores.

[Guest British_eh]

Hi there von Baur,

You make some very good and valid points. As with everything there are checks and balances. The idea that we can go for a pint after a Mission, and not worry ( unduly) about the next one, is quite an advantage. Reading Yeates - "Winged Victory" the mind set of the central character is explored in detail, and so I can live vicariously through him to see what a bl**dy awful time it was.

As far as realism goes, I view DiD as a Standard that was put together using values and rules that were combined, with OFF as the platform. It is no walk in the park, and has served as the only "Standard" to which one may fly. We cannot count everyones own ideas, as they fly what is important or fun for them. RSS differs in that ALL the parameters that OBD has allowed us to manipulate in the Workshop Settings have been researched from a historical point of view. We have dozens of hours in looking at each parameter to see how we could apply it to what we know historically. So we feel that flying to a realistic standard will be to fly to the RSS's. If you want more fun, or more missions, whatever, then the individual may choose what suites them. We are only providing a platform that some may wish to use knowing that within the limitations of the PC, and sim, that it is as close to the real thing as it can be. P4 may no I'm sure will, provide us with more realism and choices, great!. In the interim we have two Standards that can be utilized in OFF.

Cheers,

British_eh