How to place SAM in terrain of SF1 series

[Fuza 0]

I'm trying hard to use a title which will make search for this topic easier in the future.

 

I've discovered something new about the subject, the discovery is encouraging. So I can't wait to publish my work to share with you folks. Initially I thought firing up this thread in the MOD section but in order for fellow simmers to find this subject easier I post it here for that purpose. I must thank Fubar, Wrench, Malibu and robert who have replied to my threads for their resourcefulness effort and help. I learn this knowledge from their threads specially one raised by robert and answered by Fubar. The link of the thread is -> http://combatace.com...a3-sa7-sa9-etc/ The information contained in the discussion doesn't directly contribute to my discoveries but it helps. Special thanks to Wrench also for his 'Shipwrech' placement. That also doesn't contribute to my discoveries but it does help me o understand the difference between some fo the parameters used in {TERRAIN}_TYPES.INI. The parameter is UseGroundObject={Boolean} (TRUE, FALSE)

 

How to place chosen SAM in a chosen terrain for a customized single mission

 

Please note that this only applies to customized missions and the SF series 1 games including SFP1 Gold, WoV, WoE and WoI.

 

The {TERRAIN}_TARGETS.INI contains all the ground targets which you can bomb BIG TIME! Each target has a type which is defined in {TERRAIN}_TYPES.INI. Both files must be extracted from the {TERRAIN}.cat file using the sfp1e.exe CAT file extractor. It can be found here -> http://combatace.com...xtract-utility/

 

The game supports 2 'strange' ways of placing SAM units according to my experiements. It generates SAM units by random selections from the GroundObject folder, number 1. Number 2, the game places SAM units according to what you specifiy in {TERRAIN}_TARGETS.INI. What's that all about?

 

Look at the following Target Area extracted from {TERRAIN}_TARGETS.INI

 

[TargetArea025]

Name=Jarimin

Position=570000.00,380000.00

Radius=8919

ActiveYear=0

Location=2

Alignment=ENEMY

Target[001].Type=CommBuilding1

Target[001].Offset=-51.00,-2630.00

Target[001].Heading=0

Target[002].Type=mosque1

Target[002].Offset=-1765.00,3625.00

Target[002].Heading=90

Target[003].Type=mosque1

Target[003].Offset=395.00,221.00

Target[003].Heading=90

Target[004].Type=watertower1

Target[004].Offset=4896.00,-1175.00

Target[004].Heading=0

Target[005].Type=mosque2

Target[005].Offset=-2360.00,-2248.00

Target[005].Heading=90

Target[006].Type=CityBuilding1

Target[006].Offset=1952.00,-2828.00

Target[006].Heading=0

Target[007].Type=CityBuilding1

Target[007].Offset=2049.00,2056.00

Target[007].Heading=180

Target[008].Type=SAMRadar

Target[008].Offset=-3021.00,-8180.00

Target[008].Heading=45

Target[008].ActiveYear=1967

Target[009].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[009].Offset=-3121.00,-8005.00

Target[009].Heading=330

Target[009].ActiveYear=1967

Target[010].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[010].Offset=-2921.00,-8005.00

Target[010].Heading=30

Target[010].ActiveYear=1967

Target[011].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[011].Offset=-2821.00,-8180.00

Target[011].Heading=90

Target[011].ActiveYear=1967

Target[012].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[012].Offset=-3221.00,-8180.00

Target[012].Heading=270

Target[012].ActiveYear=1967

Target[013].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[013].Offset=-2921.00,-8355.00

Target[013].Heading=150

Target[013].ActiveYear=1967

Target[014].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[014].Offset=-3121.00,-8355.00

Target[014].Heading=210

Target[014].ActiveYear=1967

Target[015].Type=AAA

Target[015].Offset=-3320.00,-7956.00

Target[015].Heading=0

Target[015].ActiveYear=1967

Target[016].Type=AAA

Target[016].Offset=-3010.00,-7813.00

Target[016].Heading=280

Target[016].ActiveYear=1967

Target[017].Type=AAA

Target[017].Offset=-5199.00,2839.00

Target[017].Heading=315

Target[018].Type=AAA

Target[018].Offset=-5170.00,2473.00

Target[018].Heading=270

Target[018].ActiveYear=1965

Target[019].Type=AAA

Target[019].Offset=-5526.00,421.00

Target[019].Heading=315

Target[020].Type=AAA

Target[020].Offset=-5313.00,53.00

Target[020].Heading=225

Target[020].ActiveYear=1965

Target[021].Type=CityBuilding1

Target[021].Offset=-3383.00,-46.00

Target[021].Heading=90

Target[022].Type=AAA

Target[022].Offset=6191.00,5094.00

Target[022].Heading=45

Target[022].ActiveYear=1968

Target[023].Type=AAA

Target[023].Offset=6170.00,4838.00

Target[023].Heading=315

Target[023].ActiveYear=1968

Target[024].Type=AAA

Target[024].Offset=35.00,-2077.00

Target[024].Heading=45

Target[025].Type=AAA

Target[025].Offset=-413.00,-2545.00

Target[025].Heading=315

 

So the highlighted shows a SAM site numbered 8 thru 14 with a Radar and 6 Launchers. Now given in the vanilla version of the game which gives us the follow Soviet SAM unit with associated Radar unit:

 

SA-2

SA-2LC

SA-2LF

Fansong

 

I added SA-3DL and Flatface from Pasko Desert Pak. I also updated the WEAPONDATA.INI to include the SA-3 obtained from Bunyap's Weapon Pack. Now in the GroundObject folder we have the followings:

 

Fansong

Flatface

SA-2

SA-2LC

SA-2LF

SA-3DL

 

If you create a customized mission and run it, you will find the SAM that you are up against would be SA-2. After you're killed, you restart the same mission again, this time you would have SA-3 coming up on your map. Again, bad luck you're killed! Then you restart the mission, you are up against the SA-3 again!! Why? Why not SA-2? The game obviously picks up which SAM unit it likes from the GroundObject folder.

 

Now it's quite alright for those who come by as a casual player of the game. But for those who want to have a war theatre with 'pre-arranged' SAM sites myself included, would certainly find different expectations with the game's randomized decisions.

 

So, how do I be certain about that a SA-3 site is located there in Jarimin? Is it something which cannot be changed? I thought with a mission editor and an opened game like this the game engine allows me to customize a number of elements of the war theatre to suit my likings during mission creations. But then I have confidence in the game after reading so many resourceful threads on this forum about it. Witht his firm belief I have decided to get down to the bottom of how things fit together and work the way I expect.

 

I read Wrench's Shipwreck document and have an impression that anything could be "fixed" on to the terrain map. Randomness is only a default when we don't take things into our hands. It's much better to have control in our hands as always, for everything.

 

When you hit a problem and don't have the faintest idea as to how to solve it systematically, it would be extremely painful to use "trail & error". I don't like giving up, I heard that the flexibility of this game is so deep that nearly anything can be customized. I should go deeper...A great number of experiments followed. Switching between the game, the {TERRAIN}_TARGETS.INI and {TERRAIN}_TYPES.INI files I looked harder and harder into the 2 files. At one stage I found surprises.

 

In-game, I use F7 to check what SAM units were showing up. Incidentally, a SCUD-B image crossed my sight. I repeated F7 again and again and "yes!" it's a SCUD-B. I closed the game and started it again with the same mission running, the SCUD's there again! Over and over again the SCUD's still there!!! now I knew that I'm getting pretty much closer to the answer of my question. I went into the {TERRAIN}_TARGETS.INI file and looked for SCUD-B. Here:

 

[TargetArea045]

Name=Seikel

Position=728000.00,480000.00

Radius=4560

ActiveYear=0

Location=2

Alignment=ENEMY

....

....

....

Target[008].Type=Scud

Target[008].Offset=-3038.00,2448.00

Target[008].Heading=260

....

....

....

 

Then I started to cross check {TERRAIN}_TYPES.INI, SCUD is defined here:

 

[TargetType057]

Name=Scud

FullName=SCUD-B Launcher

TargetType=CHEMICAL_WEAPONS_PLANT

ActiveYear=1966

TargetValue=250

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=Scud-B

RepairRate=0.0

StartDetectChance=50

StartIdentifiedChance=25

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryEffect=SmallExplosionEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

Check the above Target Area

 

[TargetArea025]

Name=Jarimin

Position=570000.00,380000.00

Radius=8919

ActiveYear=0

Location=2

Alignment=ENEMY

...

...

...

Target[008].Type=SAMRadar

Target[008].Offset=-3021.00,-8180.00

Target[008].Heading=45

Target[008].ActiveYear=1967

Target[009].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[009].Offset=-3121.00,-8005.00

Target[009].Heading=330

Target[009].ActiveYear=1967

Target[010].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[010].Offset=-2921.00,-8005.00

Target[010].Heading=30

Target[010].ActiveYear=1967

Target[011].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[011].Offset=-2821.00,-8180.00

Target[011].Heading=90

Target[011].ActiveYear=1967

Target[012].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[012].Offset=-3221.00,-8180.00

Target[012].Heading=270

Target[012].ActiveYear=1967

Target[013].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[013].Offset=-2921.00,-8355.00

Target[013].Heading=150

Target[013].ActiveYear=1967

Target[014].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[014].Offset=-3121.00,-8355.00

Target[014].Heading=210

Target[014].ActiveYear=1967

 

Now look at the definition of SAMRadar and SAMLauncher in {TERRAIN}_TYPES.INI

 

[TargetType061]

Name=SAMRadar

FullName=SAM Site

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

UseGroundObject=TRUE

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=200

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

[TargetType062]

Name=SAMLauncher

FullName=SAM Site

TargetType=SAM_LAUNCHER

UseGroundObject=TRUE

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=100

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=20

StartIdentifiedChance=0

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=0

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

I compare the two types SAMRadar and Scud, results here

 

 

The Comparison utility highlights 2 lines

 

[TargetType061]

Name=SAMRadar

FullName=SAM Site

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

UseGroundObject=TRUE <--------------------------------------- "Take details from the GroundObject folder"

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=200

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

[TargetType057]

Name=Scud

FullName=SCUD-B Launcher

TargetType=CHEMICAL_WEAPONS_PLANT

ActiveYear=1966

TargetValue=250

UseGroundObject=TRUE<------------------------------------ "Take details from the GroundObject folder"

GroundObjectType=Scud-B<--------------------------------- "Take detaiols from the SCUD-B folder inside the GroundObject folder"

RepairRate=0.0

StartDetectChance=50

StartIdentifiedChance=25

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryEffect=SmallExplosionEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

Now it's very clear that what you need to tell the game to look for specifically requires the use of the GroundObjectType parameter followed by the UseGroundObject parameter!!!

 

What it means is that the game knows you want this type of objects from within the GroundObject folder. Okay the game proceeds to pick up whichever objects which match the type and throw it to the {TERRAIN}_TARGETS.INI file. That's what happens with only the UseGroundObject parameter.

 

To work on my intended target area Galzad, I made the following changes:

 

[TargetArea020]

Name=Galzad

Position=618000.00,322000.00

Radius=6488

ActiveYear=0

Location=2

Alignment=ENEMY

Target[001].Type=EWR

Target[001].Offset=29.00,1803.00

Target[001].Heading=0

Target[002].Type=mosque1

Target[002].Offset=1788.00,414.00

Target[002].Heading=90

Target[003].Type=watertower1

Target[003].Offset=-48.00,2839.00

Target[003].Heading=0

Target[004].Type=AAA

Target[004].Offset=-371.00,1756.00

Target[004].Heading=280

Target[005].Type=AAA

Target[005].Offset=40.00,2366.00

Target[005].Heading=0

Target[006].Type=Scud

Target[006].Offset=-5121.00,-2114.00

Target[006].Heading=270

Target[006].ActiveYear=1967

Target[007].Type=Scud

Target[007].Offset=-5778.00,918.00

Target[007].Heading=265

Target[007].ActiveYear=1967

Target[008].Type=Scud

Target[008].Offset=-5770.00,1765.00

Target[008].Heading=273

Target[008].ActiveYear=1967

Target[009].Type=Warehouse1

Target[009].Offset=-4353.00,-1085.00

Target[009].Heading=0

Target[010].Type=Warehouse1

Target[010].Offset=-4357.00,-935.00

Target[010].Heading=0

Target[011].Type=AAA

Target[011].Offset=-5460.00,-2079.00

Target[011].Heading=270

Target[011].ActiveYear=1967

Target[012].Type=AAA

Target[012].Offset=-5191.00,-1806.00

Target[012].Heading=315

Target[012].ActiveYear=1967

Target[013].Type=AAA

Target[013].Offset=-5829.00,763.00

Target[013].Heading=270

Target[013].ActiveYear=1967

Target[014].Type=AAA

Target[014].Offset=-6235.00,1744.00

Target[014].Heading=270

Target[014].ActiveYear=1967

Target[015].Type=AAA

Target[015].Offset=-6196.00,1923.00

Target[015].Heading=315

Target[015].ActiveYear=1967

Target[016].Type=mosque2

Target[016].Offset=-217.00,-1611.00

Target[016].Heading=90

Target[017].Type=AAA

Target[017].Offset=-4714.00,-539.00

Target[017].Heading=315

Target[018].Type=SovietFlatface

Target[018].Offset=-3298.00,4249.00

Target[018].Heading=45

Target[018].ActiveYear=1966

Target[019].Type=SovietSA-3DL

Target[019].Offset=-3392.00,4381.00

Target[019].Heading=330

Target[019].ActiveYear=1966

Target[020].Type=SovietSA-3DL

Target[020].Offset=-3192.00,4381.00

Target[020].Heading=30

Target[020].ActiveYear=1966

Target[021].Type=SovietSA-3DL

Target[021].Offset=-3032.00,4140.00

Target[021].Heading=90

Target[021].ActiveYear=1966

Target[022].Type=SovietSA-3DL

Target[022].Offset=-3492.00,4206.00

Target[022].Heading=270

Target[022].ActiveYear=1966

Target[023].Type=SovietSA-3DL

Target[023].Offset=-3192.00,4031.00

Target[023].Heading=150

Target[023].ActiveYear=1966

Target[024].Type=SovietSA-3DL

Target[024].Offset=-3392.00,4031.00

Target[024].Heading=210

Target[024].ActiveYear=1966

Target[025].Type=mosque2

Target[025].Offset=-2381.00,1785.00

Target[025].Heading=90

Target[026].Type=AAA

Target[026].Offset=-3613.00,4482.00

Target[026].Heading=315

Target[026].ActiveYear=1967

Target[027].Type=AAA

Target[027].Offset=-3309.00,4810.00

Target[027].Heading=10

Target[027].ActiveYear=1967

Target[028].Type=SovietTruck

Target[028].Offset=-4372.00,-1058.00

Target[028].Heading=272

Target[029].Type=SovietTruck

Target[029].Offset=-4374.00,-961.00

Target[029].Heading=190

Target[030].Type=SovietBRDM

Target[030].Offset=-4387.00,-1096.00

Target[030].Heading=30

Target[031].Type=SovietTruck

Target[031].Offset=-4362.00,-960.00

Target[031].Heading=175

Target[032].Type=SovietFansong

Target[032].Offset=-4298.00,5249.00

Target[032].Heading=45

Target[032].ActiveYear=1967

Target[033].Type=SovietSA-2LC

Target[033].Offset=-4392.00,5381.00

Target[033].Heading=330

Target[033].ActiveYear=1968

Target[034].Type=SovietSA-2LC

Target[034].Offset=-4192.00,5381.00

Target[034].Heading=30

Target[034].ActiveYear=1968

Target[035].Type=SovietSA-2LC

Target[035].Offset=-4032.00,5140.00

Target[035].Heading=90

Target[035].ActiveYear=1968

Target[036].Type=SovietSA-2LC

Target[036].Offset=-4492.00,5206.00

Target[036].Heading=270

Target[036].ActiveYear=1968

Target[037].Type=SovietSA-2LC

Target[037].Offset=-4192.00,5031.00

Target[037].Heading=150

Target[037].ActiveYear=1968

Target[038].Type=SovietSA-2LC

Target[038].Offset=-4392.00,5031.00

Target[038].Heading=210

Target[038].ActiveYear=1968

The types SovietFlatface, SovietSA-3DL, SovietFansong and SovietSA-2LC require associations in the {TERRAIN}_TYPES.INI file, so here is what I created:

 

[TargetType072]

Name=SovietFansong

FullName=Fan Song Radar

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=Fansong

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=200

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=100

StartIdentifiedChance=100

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=100

MaxVisibleDist=80000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=100

 

[TargetType073]

Name=SovietSA-2LC

FullName=SA-2 SAM Launcher

TargetType=SAM_LAUNCHER

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=SA-2LC

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=100

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=100

StartIdentifiedChance=100

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=100

MaxVisibleDist=80000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=100

 

[TargetType074]

Name=SovietFlatface

FullName=P-15 FlatFace Radar

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=Flatface

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=200

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=100

StartIdentifiedChance=100

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=100

MaxVisibleDist=80000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=100

 

[TargetType075]

Name=SovietSA-3DL

FullName=SA-3 Double Launcher

TargetType=SAM_LAUNCHER

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=SA-3DL

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=100

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=100

StartIdentifiedChance=100

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=100

MaxVisibleDist=80000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=100

So I am expecting 2 different SAM sites in the same target area now.

 

I post this up is because I can keep track of my work in the future in case I will be away for some time and return later I will always have it here to remind myself and to pick it up again. The second reason is because this hard work is not easy to accomplish, so I would like to share with fellow simmers in case they intend to customize the theatre as such.

 

Please give me comments if I have missed something or you need to ask about the subject. Cheers and Happy birthday!!

 

Edited December 15, 2010 by Fuza

[+Gepard 10,904]

You can set groundobjects at a terrain as part of the terrain, this is terrain modding. Or you can create a scripted single mission. I think you want to make the later one. Then you dont need editing the terrain. Editing of a terrain will be permanent, what means, that the SAM battery is always at their position. For scripted single missions you can place SAM batteries at free will and they will only appear in that single scripted mission.

This are the lines for a scripted mission i made for testing the Su-22M4 in SEAD mod. You will face 4 mobile SAM batteries (Roland, Chaparall and Flakpanzer Gepard)

 

[MissionHeader]

AircraftType=Su-22M4

MissionMap=GermanyCE

MissionType=SEAD

StartTime=15:30:00

StartDate=06/18/1985

 

[MissionData]

FriendlyAirActivity=1

EnemyAirActivity=1

PlayerMissionID=1

PlayerPositionID=1

MissionNumber=0815

AdjustStartPosition=FALSE

AdjustBaseWaypoint=TRUE

 

[Weather]

WeatherType=SCATTERED

WeatherAlt=4000.0

WeatherThickness=500.0

FogAmount=0.6

ContrailAlt=8000.0

StartWindDirection=180

StartWindSpeed=17.57222

WindGustingAmount=25.57222

 

[AircraftMission001]

AircraftType=Su-22M4

Name=TOMAHAWK

FormationType=SovietFighter

Size=4

RandomChance=100

MissionType=SEAD

ObjectiveID=2

RatingForSuccess=50

Position=412256.0,488390.0,3000

Heading=180.0

Speed=300.0

Alignment=ENEMY

StartOnGround=0

Nation=Soviet

TextureSet=001

AircraftNumber=10

 

[GroundMission001]

GroundObjectType=mroland

Name=Marder Roland

FormationType=SOVIET

Size=4

RandomChance=100

Alignment=FRIENDLY

Heading=0.0

Speed=10

Position=412256.0,477390.0,0.0

 

[GroundMission002]

GroundObjectType=ChaparralL

Name=Chaparral

FormationType=SOVIET

Size=4

RandomChance=100

Alignment=FRIENDLY

Heading=0.0

Speed=10

Position=413256.0,477390.0,0.0

 

[GroundMission003]

GroundObjectType=Gepard

Name=Gepard

FormationType=SOVIET

Size=4

RandomChance=100

Alignment=FRIENDLY

Heading=0.0

Speed=10

Position=411256.0,477390.0,0.0

[Fuza 0]

The trouble I was getting when creating SAM placement in a scripted mission was that they don't fire. SA-2 is one and SA-3 is the other.

 

You've brought up a good point though. I think we need to have a terrain editor for object placement. Manually calculating the orientation and distance of SAM targets is a tedious process.

 

But then it is good to learn how to do it, I'm glad that I know the game a bit more now.

 

Next I can have my desired ground distributed threat so I can create a slightly more realistic air combat scenario.

 

I intend to create a MiG vs Sabre scenario, no air2air missile, only guns in the air, only missiles will be coming from the ground.

 

You konw with the added ground threats, the AI aicrafts will be forced to change.

 

See you in the air!!

Edited December 15, 2010 by Fuza

[+malibu43 142]

The reason that most terrains and modders don't use the SAM placement method that you've described is because you've now made that terrain and target area "era specific" by specifying only one type and variant of SAM that can show up there.

 

The way the stock terrains handle SAMs (SAMLauncher, SAMRadar, etc...) allows the game to automatically pick the right SAM system depending on the year that you're flying. Fly in the '70's and you get more modern systems like the SA-6, fly in the '50's and early '60's and you get older systems like the SA-2.

 

And, FWIW, you're trying to set up an F-86 vs MiG-17 scenario, right? That would be something that would take place in the '50's, right? The SA-3 wasn't active until the early to mid '60's. So in your quest to create a "more realistic air combat scenario", you've actually created something that is very unrealistic.

[Fuza 0]

Thanks! You do have a point. In which case, I'll strengthen the distribution of AAA instead of SAM.

 

Anyway, I am very glad becoz I somehow know a little bi more than before about how Terrain and Unit reacts.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Fuza

[Wrench 9,733]

That info is nothing really new; sorry to burst your bubble. We terrain/targets engineers have been working off that principle for OVER 7 years.

 

The point, of course, is moot, what with SF2 creating a handy little file called the 'userlist.ini'. Of course, the terrain's LimitedNations= statment, creating country-used specific items, has been around since WoV first came out (albeit not as sophiscated). And most modders having moved to SF2....well, you get the picture.

 

wrench

kevin stein

[Fuza 0]

That info is nothing really new; sorry to burst your bubble. We terrain/targets engineers have been working off that principle for OVER 7 years.

 

.

Then you owe me a pint then my friend:grin: , if as you said you have known about this for 7 years.

I have been tgrying really hard to get my answers which it's already inside your belly.

 

Anyway, it's knowledge I learn from the hard way, I 'll treasure it.

[Wrench 9,733]

Sorry, if it's only a virtual one!

 

wrench

kevin stein

[Fuza 0]

Sorry, if it's only a virtual one!

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

Happy Birthday to myself!

 

Never mind Wrench, I'm sure Harry Potter is even more virtual than yours LOL

 

Can we discuss about your master piece the SA-5.

 

I recall we have the concept that EW radar are sort of a shooting target more than a functional system which relays air-bourne targets to the launching platforms.

In you work, you made Barlock a networked radar to the SA-5.

Let's not talk about if it works the way we expect.

But isn't it true that SA-5 missile range <= SquarePair Search and Track Range.

So even though the Barlock knows about an incoming target and it informs the SquarePair, the Launch Platform still won't fiore the SA-5 missile since the missile range is limited. Do you understand what I'm getting at?

[+Major Lee 18]

You've brought up a good point though. I think we need to have a terrain editor for object placement. Manually calculating the orientation and distance of SAM targets is a tedious process.

 

But then it is good to learn how to do it, I'm glad that I know the game a bit more now.

 

 

I just worked out formulas for Excel... :mega_shok:

[FastCargo 412]

I just worked out formulas for Excel... :mega_shok:

 

I use OpenOffice...

 

 

FC

[+Major Lee 18]

You flying rocket scientist.... That's a purty little chart... What's it for?

[Fuza 0]

Gentlemen and to myself,

 

Previous attempt failed. Must be the game mechanics thingy. If I use

 

[TargetType057]

Name=Scud

FullName=SCUD-B Launcher

TargetType=CHEMICAL_WEAPONS_PLANT

ActiveYear=1966

TargetValue=250

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=Scud-B

RepairRate=0.0

StartDetectChance=50

StartIdentifiedChance=25

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryEffect=SmallExplosionEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

the mission is only half-done. What it means is fetch the object data and 3-D from the Ground Object Folder by the name as specified in this case is Scud-B. When we are talking about a ground unit, that's fine. But when we come to talk about SAM and I guess "Static" aircrafts then it is different, the chemistry is not as expected.

 

For Fan Song Radar of the SA-2 for instance, if I write

 

[TargetType072]

Name=SovietFansong

FullName=Fan Song Radar

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

ActiveYear=1966

TargetValue=250

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=Fansong

RepairRate=0.0

StartDetectChance=50

StartIdentifiedChance=25

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryEffect=SmallExplosionEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

The Fansong radar shows up but when you expect it listening to you, your RWR won't sound the alarm, that's the issue. As to why I don't know!

 

I compare Fubar512's Hawk placement, and found the subtle difference embedded between lines.

 

The Name of the Type should be the same as the name of the object in the Ground Object Folder. And we don't need to use the line GroundObjectType=Fansong. For Fan Song Radar, we should have written

 

[TargetType072]

Name=Fansong <-------------------- use the same name of the Fansong in the GroundObject folder

FullName=Fan Song Radar

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

ActiveYear=1966

TargetValue=250

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=Fansong <---- delete this line

RepairRate=0.0

StartDetectChance=50

StartIdentifiedChance=25

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryEffect=SmallExplosionEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

Can't tell you how happy I was when I heard the "music" from RWR device!! Spent 2 days to trouble shoot it, at one time I was just staring at the screen and couldn't make anything out.

 

So the Fansong should be

 

[TargetType072]

Name=Fansong

FullName=Fan Song Radar

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

ActiveYear=1966

TargetValue=250

UseGroundObject=TRUE

RepairRate=0.0

StartDetectChance=50

StartIdentifiedChance=25

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryEffect=SmallExplosionEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

The Active Year should not be a problem if you are designing single mission only.

 

 

[Fuza 0]

Added to the above, the u nderstanding is of significance. It's a strategic step forward. Now I know how to place ANY ground objects in the map, including static vehicles and aircrafts like the AC-130C and others, this adds more lives to the theatre.

 

I can also tune the SA-2 to be more lethal

 

Currently, I am working on the AAA. Strange, the cold war era AAA seems to be more like a flaks creator than a killer in the air.

[FastCargo 412]

You flying rocket scientist.... That's a purty little chart... What's it for?

 

Well, that specific chart is the zero-lift drag curves for the various components of the F-103A projected in 0.1 Mach increments out to Mach 4. Basically, I started with the stock TW F-105 flight model and then ran extrapolations based on aerodynamic knowledge and some Kentucky windage...

 

The chart is one of several sheets plotting out the various tables, extending them out to Mach 4, and/or 80000 feet. It's pretty interesting when you start plotting out values because you can get a feel of what the aircraft will do at various altitudes and Mach numbers. And I haven't even started playing with the Alpha tables yet...

 

For this particular model, I'm working on getting it stable at Mach 3 with a reasonable time to speed and time to climb numbers, having it stable for takeoff and landing for the player and the AI, and having it fly 'flat' enough for typical bomber attack runs...

 

FC

[Fuza 0]

Hey FC,

 

The SA-10 trajectory...how it's done? It'a awesome!!

 

It propels straightup, straight up ok XD , then it bends itself and home in on targets, it's amazing.

But I watched somewhere, that the SA-10 missile propels out of the tube smokeless, before its engine ignites...is it posssible to simulate that by modding the SA-10 ini? Do you know?

Edited December 22, 2010 by Fuza

[FastCargo 412]

Well, I believe Fubar512 is our resident SAM flight path guru (I think he did the work on the SA-10). For what you are trying to achieve, what you need to look at are the sections near the end of the data.ini entry. The sections start with Booster, Sustainer, and InFlight. Booster and Sustainer have their own duration, thrust and effects values. The Inflight effect as far as I know has never worked. So, you can get an idea of you need to do...have a very short, sharp Booster launch with no visual effect (the 'pop' from the tube), then adjust the Sustainer section to taste.

 

FC

[Fuza 0]

I have tried giving the Booster a value of 0.5 sec rather than 0, the launcher burst and exploded on the spot, hot and vibrant looking! The game renders so well in that aspect!!!

[FastCargo 412]

I have tried giving the Booster a value of 0.5 sec rather than 0, the launcher burst and exploded on the spot, hot and vibrant looking!

 

Really? Exactly WHICH value did you mess with?

 

BoosterStart=0.000000

BoosterDuration=0.200000

BoosterAccel=100.000000

BoosterEffectName=Smokeless

BoosterSoundName=Missile

BoosterNodeName=

BoosterPosition=0.000000,-2.650000,0.000000

SustainerDuration=30.000000

SustainerAccel=24.000000

SustainerEffectName=LargeMissileFireEffect

SustainerSoundName=Afterburner

SustainerPosition=0.000000,-2.650000,0.000000

InFlightEffectName=LargeMissileFireEffect

InFlightSoundName=SAMinFlight

 

From what I see here, the 'pop' is already setup (ini is from SA-10 download). You probably messed with the BoosterStart value...which tells the sim when to start the rocket motor. In your case, about 1/2 a second AFTER the missile is released from the rail...not a good idea.

 

If you want to increase the distance before the sustainer cuts in, adjust the BoosterDuration number.

 

FC

[Fuza 0]

 

If you want to increase the distance before the sustainer cuts in, adjust the BoosterDuration number.

 

FC

Illuminating!! Why didn't I realize! The booster effect is smokeless...so I should prolong the Booster action...THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fuza 0]

The SAM placement still not working..in the sense that the game picks up the SAM unit at random.

 

This is so tedious...I can't make anything out now...

[Fuza 0]

BREAKING DISCOVERY!!!

 

This is what I defined (messed around) in DESERT2_TYPES.INI:

 

[TargetType061]

Name=Fansong

FullName=SAM Radar

TargetType=RECON

UseGroundObject=TRUE

ActiveYear=1959

TargetValue=200

RepairRate=0.555

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=100

 

And this is what I messed around with Fansong_DATA.INI

 

[MissionData]

NationName=EGYPT

ServiceStartYear=1967

ServiceEndYear=2000

GroundObjectRole=SAM_RADAR

Availability=COMMON

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1967

ExportAvailability=COMMON

 

Experimentally I put this in DESERT2_TARGET.INI:

 

[TargetArea007]

Name=Al'Qo

Position=782000.00,400000.00

Radius=7800

ActiveYear=0

Location=2

Alignment=ENEMY

Target[001].Type=Watertower1

Target[001].Offset=0,0

Target[001].Heading=270

Target[002].Type=Fansong

Target[002].offset=100,100

Target[002].Heading=0

Target[003].Type=_FlatFace

Target[003].offset=-100,100

Target[003].Heading=90

 

Guess what...my RWR beeps!!!

 

So the game ignores the line TargetType=RECON

!!

 

 

[Wrench 9,733]

Thre is no "TargetType=RECON" listed anywhere in a terrain types ini ... that is a mistake, and if you'd actually LOOK at the several others around, you'll see the correct type listed.

 

I'm done ...

[Fuza 0]

GroundObject.dll shows RECON, I used Hex Editor to check it.