Vicefelwebel ranking above Feldwebel?

[+Hasse Wind]

Yes, it was quite common in other air forces too that the observer had a higher rank than the pilot. The pilot was only the chauffeur, the really difficult things were done by the observer.

[+RAF_Louvert]

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Gepard wrote:

Seems to be, that there were really Gefreite as pilots.

 

And not just Gefreiter but Flieger too, as you can see in the link I posted earlier. Also HW, quite right Sir. Pilots really were just lowly drivers when the war first began and it was the higher-ranking observers who were the important element in those two-seaters. That all began to change when the armed scout ships made their appearance, though even by war's end it was still not uncommon to see low-ranking pilots serving their superior gunner/obs, especially in the French and German air services.

 

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[Capitaine Vengeur]

There was this story set in 1914 or 1915, when a German two-seater, flown by a Gefreiter with an officer observer, could escape an aerial attack through his pilot's skill, and force land behind his own lines with his crew safe. The officer then felt authorized to beat his chauffeur with his stick, for incompetence.

[+Gepard]

You must be a little bit carefull with the term Flieger. Its the old german word for pilot. All flying personal was called Flieger. When a man was called a Flieger, it must not mean his military rank. Also v.Richthofen was a Flieger.

[+Paarma]

Gepard, thats good point. Flieger mean Pilot and was probably confused many times. The private soldiers was called different names depending the unit.

 

"Private soldiers had no rank insignia, and were referred to as Soldat, or Gemeiner. In each branch of service, privates had different names: Infanterist, Jäger, Schütze, Gardist, Grenadier, Fusilier, Musketier, and Pionier, for various infantry regiments; Kürassier, Dragoner, Husar, and Ulan for various cavalry regiments; Kanonier for artillerymen; and Flieger for airforce units. " http://www.worldwar1.com/sfgrank.htm

 

 

 

You must be a little bit carefull with the term Flieger. Its the old german word for pilot. All flying personal was called Flieger. When a man was called a Flieger, it must not mean his military rank. Also v.Richthofen was a Flieger.

[+RAF_Louvert]

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Yes, that is all quite true, however the lowest rank in the German Air Service during the Great War was called "Flieger" whether he was a pilot or not; the rank was the equivalent of a private. In the link I posted for the Kagohl/Bogohl III page the roster of pilots is listed by rank, so in that instance you can be sure that "Flieger" was the pilot's rank, and not simply a generic term for a flyer. I have done a bit more looking into this and there were many pilots in the German Air Service in WWI with the rank of "Flieger".

 

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[+Hasse Wind]

Isn't there a comparable rank in the modern US (and maybe British too) air force, the Airman? In Finnish, there's lentosotamies, which can be translated as 'flight private'.

 

It's true that during WW2, there were no privates as pilots in the German air force, and neither in the Finnish air force. They were all NCO's and officers. In WW1, the rank system seems to have been less strictly organized, which probably can be explained with the ad hoc nature of early military aviation in general.

[+Olham]

My personal guess to all this:

 

Nowadays, we have the ranks Unteroffizier, Feldwebel, Oberfeldwebel and Hauptfeldwebel

for non-commissioned officers.

But if you have A-level and are aiming for becoming an officer, then you don't become

a Feldwebel, but a Fahnenjunker or Fähnrich (don't know exactly which of the two).

That would be ranking like Feldwebel, but is only for those on the way to be an officer.

 

could it be, that Vizefeldwebel was exactly that? The rank like Feldwebel, but only for those,

who would become a Leutnant? I think so.