Unreal Bullshiiii

[Creepy847 0]

Found this on the homepage of CNN tonight.

 

The founder of the group Texans for Truth said Tuesday that he is offering $50,000 to anyone who can prove President Bush fulfilled his service requirements, including required duties and drills, in the Alabama Air National Guard in 1972.

 

This is pretty much going too far. We are at war an its getting pretty ugly for the men an women deployed an we have groups like this one an same as the SWIFT BOATS FOR TRUTH fueling the fire. Id like to get off the NAM an National Guard thing now.

 

Iraq is getting worse we need to starting forgetting this s**t an focus on whats important. How to get Iraq stable enough so most of our troops can get out an let Iraq do its thing.

 

Everyone wants theyre man to get in so fcking bad. Lets just have the damn vote let the people decide on theyre own merit an stop this he said she said bulls**t. Someone should step in an remind the entire group Dems an Reps that we'd better starting thinking serious about whats important.

 

Middle East is a mess an N.K. needs to be addressed. It wont be long before our troops start getting mixed messages about theyre mission in Iraq. Occupation duty is never good for any armed force even more the Americans cause every other country is waiting for us to screw something up.

 

Let November come soon we need to get this thing over with.

 

R/S

Creepy847

Semper Fi.

[Scout_51 0]

Im going to let you run with this one guy....tho I Do agree,the kids out there must be wondering what the hell Is going on,that can get dangerous.....

[Weasel Keeper 0]

The "kids out there" are probably wondering (and concerned about) who is going to be their CinC when all is said and done....and whether the job they've performed over the past 18 months is going to be taken seriously or thrown aside. Although they know they can vote absentee and aren't really that worried...

 

Should we have some guy who has ties with the Kennedy's...doesn't want to supply/finance more money for troops/wants troops out now (and betray's the VN troops he led for a few months...and generalizes the entire 15 years in his 4 month tour)?

 

Should we have a guy who projects power, not afraid to take on terrorists or rogue nations who hate everyone, who supports and wants to finance troops abroad so they are well equiped and not scraping by to defend freedom? Shall we bail out of Iraq, Afghanistan and let them go back to their backward ass ways, or should we stay and promote democracy...which has worked in much of the world to promote...*gasp*...PEACE?

[SDirickson 0]

I'll be commissioned in less than three years from now. I want to be certain there is a role for me to fulfill. I don't want to be led by someone I can't depend on. I want to know exactly how my future CinC handled his own tour of duty. In the end, every piece of information is important.

 

As for serving as the occupying force in an enemy nation, I don't think any other country is as suited for the job as we are. No other country has our level of competence or training. I think our soldiers over there know and understand their duty better than us civilians do.

[Creepy847 0]

I would bet this. I highly doubt the troops give a good rats ass about whos the CnC. At least the ones walking or driving on patrols. Only people that matter is the guy on your right an left.

 

Men worry about things like "When are we going home" an is this mission obtainable. Lets face it theres no body armor thats gonna stop an IED when your 5 meters away walking or riding in a Humvee. From a social standpoint the US was not prepared to deal with all the social issues of an occupied Iraq plain an simple.

 

Saddam controlled Iraq with share power an the share shock tactics. Thats the only way you control a country when you occupy. Thats been the way for hundred of years. The Romans did it the Japs did it the Germans did it the Russians did it the Brits did it an we did it too during WW2. We did it to a certain point during the Korean War but guess what theres stilll a DMZ an lets not even talk about Vietnam. Yes as far as a conventional battle we win but we still havent learned that it takes alot more than B-1s an M-A1s to occupy a country.

 

Excutions were a way to show the people that we would not tolerate any type of terrorists or covert actions against our occupying forces. The world has changed now with the media all over the place with Sat uplink the ugly images of war are only seconds away from being broadcast all over the world.

 

Ill quote from one senior Diplomat in Baghdad. "This idea of a functioning democracy here is crazy. We thought that there would be a reprieve after sovereignty, but all hell is breaking loose. If thats not a clear picture of whats really going on over there then you need to get on a plane an fly there an walk thru the streets of Fallujah with a US Flag t-shirt.

 

Either way Iraq is a mess an its getting worse. Surely it has alot to do with the elections in the US in Nov an the Iraq elections in Jan or Feb but still its only gonna get worse. Theres a number of towns there now that US troops avoid, the troops call them no-go-areas an that list is getting longer.

 

Lets see the following cities are lost to iinsurgent enclaves:

 

Fallujah

Ar Ramadi

Baqubah

Samarra

 

These are still consider highly dangerous

Nasiriya

Balad

Tikit

Mosul

 

Theres no security force an no local goverment in Fallujah right now. A senior military official in Baghdad states "We would get attacked constantly. Forgot about it.

 

Colin Powell actually said this to Bush when they were talking about invading Iraq. You do this an you own it. If it breaks you have to fix it. Well theres alot of breaks now an I would say its time for Washington to start rethinking its objectives.

 

A respected author "Andrew Krepinevich" who wrote "The Army an Vietnam" says "What we see is that the U.S. military is not trained or organized to fight insurgencies. That was a deliberate choice after Vietnam. Now we are paying the price.

 

Now theres a flood of educated Iraqis trying to get out of Iraq. Is that a good sign? You dont invade a country the size of Texas with 150,000 when it takes 250,000 to invade an Island (Iwo Jima) which is smaller than the state of RI.

I would say that this might possibly be one of the greatest U.S. blunders in our country history. Anyone wanna occupy Iraq for 10 years like we did in Vietnam an then turn around an say ahh hell we've lost the peoples support back home lets get out of this mess. An what price will Iraq cost us in terms of blood an cash? Even more if we dont employ strategy an tactics to win. Ill be damned if I want to send my sons an daughters there only to have them killed an then have our nation turn around an withdraw because we failed to think this thru an make the changes we needed to make when things didnt work. There are enough signs there now that clearly show that we need to rethink what we are doing an how we are doing it.

 

I hope Im wrong but our sons an daughters are worth alot more to this country than sending them to Iraq to get killed or maimed for a failing policy.

 

R/S

Creepy847

Semper Fi.

Edited September 15, 2004 by Creepy847

[navychief 1]

Creepy,

 

With respect to your comments, in my opinion you are wrong that the troops do not care who their CIC is.

 

It matters a great deal.

 

Navy Chief

[Scout_51 0]

The "kids out there"

yeah the kids,Im 52 yrs old will be 53 in nov.I Know the Warfighters are definetly in the kid age group,as they have allways been..I did not,nor will I Ever say kid out of disrespect...they Are doing a Mans job(or Woman these days) but they will allways be some daddy's little girl and some mothers cherished cherubic face angel and that's how it ought be huh?...

[Scout_51 0]

I would bet this. I highly doubt the troops give a good rats ass about whos the CnC. At least the ones walking or driving on patrols. Only people that matter is the guy on your right an left.

 

Men worry about things like "When are we going home" an is this mission obtainable. Lets face it theres no body armor thats gonna stop an IED when your 5 meters away walking or riding in a Humvee. From a social standpoint the US was not prepared to deal with all the social issues of an occupied Iraq plain an simple.

Oh they just might care,but I agree they don't care when they are out there,you are quite right that then their whole world is based on your mate,your compadre..the going home yep that they Do worry,but I think its not uppermost on their mind,at least the good squad leaders,the good platoon Segeants the good leaders will make sure they keep their mind focused..there Is no body armor that can protect you fully,right,but you can improve the armor,improve the armor under the vehicles the sides,you can park the humvees and ride on bradleys..

[Creepy847 0]

Well Ill be honest Ive never voted. Why cause Im a warrior I dont care about politics I choose my profession an it had nothing to do with politics I led my Marines with the mission of killing the enemy an completing my mission. Did I always think the mission was right? No there were plenty of times where every single NCO an officer said this is screwed. I dont believe in letting my fellow Marines get killed for nothing fighting for a town then turning around an retrograding bck is not something Marines like to do or any other member of combat arms. Its a waste of lives an resources to take then give back when you know it needs to be kept.

 

Chief I respect you alot an I can understand where your coming from, but your billet in the Navy had nothing to do with walking down dangerous streets so in a way I have a much better idea of what some of the current grunts might be feeling. Yes Im sure theres grunts out there that will say Kerry is a fag or a traitor an that Bush is a better CnC, but Im sure thats not the majority. I can honestly say that there was very few that cared about who the CnC was in my units. In peacetime I might have thought about it from time to time because of benefits or other similair reason. During war in the infrantry guys dont care about CnCs at least my friends an I didnt.

 

I guess if you sitting on your ass all the time or not actually getting shot at you might sit around reading Time or Newsweek but thats not the case when you have to patrol day in day out an your wondering how the hell am I gonna react when the s**t hits the fan. Am I trained enough an brave enough not to panic when I get shot at. You worry more about how your gonna support your team an much less about politics an who was in NAM or who ducked in the NG. As long as we were paid fed an equipped the majority of us didnt think too much about it.

 

Believe me when you set off on patrol the last think your concerned with is who the CnC is an if you are thinking alot about who the CnC is then I would say your head is too far up your ass an I would prefer you not going on patrol with me.

 

I guess my point is this. Neither one of these candidates are much better than the other. We could argue for days well Bush is this an Kerry is that. The real issue isnt whos the better candidate the issue here is whats the long term goal for Iraq an are we on the right path to get there. I know alot of Vietnam Vets that are supporting Kerry that were actually PLT Cmdrs in the grunts. Think about it alot of servicmen knew that the war there was going to be lost at home an bleed over to Vietnam.

 

Did Kerry really do something so terrible by explaining that the war there was spiraling out of control. Is that wrong, does that make his a terrible US Citizen or a terrible candidate for US President. I would surely hope not. Hell his statements might have saved another 10,000 servicemens lives. Whos to say. Is President Bush the best leader out there cause he invaded Iraq. Hell the last I heard Bin Laden was in Afgan. We got rid of Saddam tied up 1000s of our troops there when we really need them in Afgan. Never bite off more than you can chew.

 

I have to remember there were WMDs all over Iraq that possed a grave an potentional threat to us. Dont let the smoke cloud your eyes to whats really out there. This war was started with alot of backdoor politics. Lying, deception an other backdoor politics is why we are we we are right now. The world is never going to be just like us an they shouldnt have to be. We will be hated by many but that is never a reason to go to war.

 

Its pretty amazing that Rumfeld was on TV almost everyday for weeks talking about how well the invasion was going. You dont see him too much now. I wonder why. The middle east is very complicated Ive spent some time there an its much different than one can imagine. The entire social structure is hard to comprehend never mind trying to impose laws on them with a slap on the wrist.

 

If they dont feel safe with our pressence they will find ways to get us out. They wont defeat us on the battle field in full scale but they can make us loose by using tactics that scare the American people. Sooner or later folks here are gonna start asking the real questions. What are we doing what is our long term goals how much is this gonna cost us an why arent we killing these insurgents when we know exactly where they are.

 

I have a feeling that if the election was a year out from now Bush would be in alittle trouble with the way things are going in Iraq. Our entire goverment better start working together so we see some light at the end of the tunnel instead of spending some much time on the he said she said side of politics. If this took place in the 40s we would be speaking German now. It took place during the 60s an look what happened.

 

Im not speaking for everyone its just amazing that alot of people here dont see whats going on over there. Nothing is ever as good or bad as people as people say, but its a clear picture right now that things are changing for the worse there right now an even tho alot has to do with the elections coming soon for both countries the insurgents are growing in number an its predicted that they could be around 20,000 soon. When you take into consideration that these folks are well armed not uniformed an using tactics our troops cant defend against you start seeing that there might be serious issues ahead.

 

You dont kill a snake biting spitting on it you cut off its head. Isreal is the only country in the current times that carries out policies that actually work against this type of threat. And they still catch s**t from the world because of that. China isnt too bad either. I believe yesterday they excuted a number of high CEO's that were found guilty of white collar crimes. Now thats what I call making an example. When you get in a s**t fight you better expect to smell like s**t when its over if you intend on winning. Theres one thing for sure this administration is never gonna smell like a bed of roses if they expect to win this..

 

An lets face it if I was having to worry about being blown up or gunned down at every intersection, overpass and road junction I can assure you this I would probably start hoping that the next CnC had plans to get my ass out of there for good. The sooner the better cause I dont care who you are once you start seeing afew of your friends killed or wounded youll start thinking about going home more an that can be a bad thing for your sqds. Have to remember a high number of troops in Iraq now are not the battle harderend Grunts of the Army an Marines. These are NGs units augmenting the rifle companies.

 

We see this war thru words an video its much different for the young men an women that deal with the horrors of war. If you have never seen your friends body ripped apart by enemy fire then you have no idea an never will. You will be forever changed by that event an in alot of cases it will be for the worst.

 

Ill be honest I dont care who the next CnC is. Whoever he is he better handle Iraq an the other threats alittle better than the way Iraq is currently being handled. When you start hearing a Cmd Marine General questioning our tactics there you can bet your money theres some problems.

 

I agree with you Scout the the NCOs are the backbones of any units. Good officers an NCOs will keep unit aggressive an capable. Thats really not the issue we have that already what we dont have is a policy an clear cut mission. We are giving up the towns that we have fought for to insurgents that are growing in number. This is not because of bad Officers or NCOs at least not at the combat level. This is policy issue that better be addressed.

 

As far as armor goes the more the better but when your Hummer or Bradley runs over 250lb IED theres very little thats gonna do, same for the Bradley. These insurgents have access an time to plant some nasty devices when an where they want to. Some of you AWingers know what the killing radius of a 250lb bomb imagine driving over that or next to that in a hummer. Do you really think a Hummer or Bradley is survive that?

 

Just the other day an Iraq sucide bomber crashed his car into 2 humves an killed 7 US troops.

 

Hell thats enough Im nolonger feeling pissed off.

 

R/S

Creepy847

Semper Fi.

[Scout_51 0]

Believe me when you set off on patrol the last think your concerned with is who the CnC is an if you are thinking alot about who the CnC is then I would say your head is too far up your ass an I would prefer you not going on patrol with me.

 

I guess my point is this. Neither one of these candidates are much better than the other. We could argue for days well Bush is this an Kerry is that. The real issue isnt whos the better candidate the issue here is whats the long term goal for Iraq an are we on the right path to get there. I know alot of Vietnam Vets that are supporting Kerry that were actually PLT Cmdrs in the grunts. Think about it alot of servicmen knew that the war there was going to be lost at home an bleed over to Vietnam.

I didn't vote when I was in myself,thought it best to go with the german army model,you dont vote because you serve the Country,not the leader.so no stake in the race and just do what you getting paid for,in some cases that is breaking things and killing people,in other cases its to give aid to those that needed,whatever we all do our job...

 

Definetly agree! if the guy had that look that said he was not there someone Would ask what was wrong or say something like 'hey guy,get back to reality!'

 

again,you are right in your statement,the thing tho is we Knew we could win,IF allowed to.....that was the same thing as its going on now,those kids out there right now ought have every single tac advantage given to them..ok the animals are in a mosque,fine send in a kill team,kill them Inside that mosque..the Israeli mossad is quite adept at going to a foreign country and kill folks,their military is quite adept at taking out precise targets,in other words targeted assasination,it just might be time for this country to take the damm gloves off...I have enjoyed reading what you wrote,it came from deep within you,not really politics but venting I think..thats good

[Foofighter 0]

Creepy,

I agree with everything you posted and personally think it couldn't have been posted any better. Sorta the point all along that I have been saying but with a much better definition.

 

I'll leave it at that because if I say more the thread will get locked again, as usual I'll get blamed for it (when I didn't start any of the threads that were locked just responded) and it'll get locked with either scout or someone else getting the last post in and then you can't respond. But usually by then the argument has all ready been won so usually a response isn't needed anyway ;) , that's why these things get locked in a TIMELY manner :D :D :D ! Personally, I think it's funny.

 

Reminds me of the Fox news channel :D , fair and balanced ;) .

 

They should change the name to www.foxhazcentral.com. :D :D :D !

 

Here comes my next 30 day "detention" :D :D :D !

 

X-Republican out...

 

Foofighter.

 

In the meantime I'll be flying.

[+Fates 63]

Before this gets outta hand, I'm gonna let Creepy and Foo have the last words.

 

The posts have been tolerable, but always seem to be started by the right, argued by the left only to be ended by the right. Today, the left gets their message out, without rebutal.

 

We could just say no more political threads...period. Everyone here nows where the line is about posting, and for the most part the line is rarely crossed. There are many more issues to speak of other then military command related opinions....lets move on to some of them.

 

Fates