Reaching the Heights

[Wayfarer 5]

I am flying reconnaissance missions in July 1915. The mission breifings show an average mission height but I have never been sure what height I am supposed to be at at any particular time.

I confess that I used to warp throught the 'circling the airfield' waypoints until I was on course for the front, imagining that the altitude I ended up at was the 'proper' one for the mission. Recently it took me to an unusually high 8000' and, for the first time in a number of missions, the flight got back home completely unmolested by Eindeckers.

In the last three missions, therefeore, I circled the airfield climbing up to around 8500'. I completed the missions seeing no enemy aircraft at our level and no AA that seemed to be seriously aimed at us, though there was plenty going on below.

I'm concerned, however, that I might be exploiting some sort of game design limit for the enemy AI, which seems a bit like cheating.

Does anyone know if there is any 'correct' altitude set for each mission and, if so, how to find out what it is?

Edited January 29, 2011 by Wayfarer

[Lewie 7]

I'm not that familiar with OFF's limitations, but considering the time period and the aircraft commonly used, historically 8000 to 10.000 is a pretty good altitude for the engines and airframes of the time to achieve. The Oberusal was a copy of the Gnome 80 and 100 h.p. which had atmospheric intake valves which really limited altitude severely. The RAF and Renault aircooled V8's of the time where not much better. It took many minutes to reach even 6000 feet with these old engines. Add to it airfoils, strutting and wires that added to an already draggy aircraft. In addition to DID there should be the early war proviso 'Early is Slow and Low'.

 

Not sure how you would implement it, considering that some folks like to warp. I'm just going on my experiences with RedBaron 3D patched with the WFP2 and the early war campaigns flying the Farman F40, BE2's and Aviatics.

[Rugbyfan1972 1]

Wayfarer,

 

You can consider yourself lucky, in onw of my first missions in february 1915 flying a BE2B, I was given a mission altitude of 17000 ft, the best I have ever managed in manual flight during a mission climbing constantly with a BE2B (until 4 miles from the airbase on the way back obviously) is 7500 ft.

 

This is just letting it climb at its own speed and without trying to set an optimal climb angle, I will try that at some point out of interest.

 

Thanks

Rugbyfan1972

[Lewie 7]

Does OFF have a 'best rate of climb' setting for autopilot? I'm just asking as in fighter Squadron WWI when you set waypoints usually the sim will try to keep the aircraft at a reasonable airspeed to climb rate. Just going on one of my 35 hp pioneers I've been testing, a shallow climb is actually a quicker way to altitude than trying to yo-yo or mush at a higher AOA. This was very true of the Fokker EIII and Vickers Gunbus of Richthofen Skies, especially the Gunbus which was a dog for climbing.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Wayfarer, the BE2c could reach it's service ceiling of 10,000 feet in 45 minutes, while the E.III could climb to 11,800 feet in around 30 minutes. However, the Eindecker could barely maneuver in such thin air, being underpowered coupled with relatively small wing surface. This meant that the E.III pilot had to make his attack count as it took considerable time to get back around for another pass without giving up vast amounts of altitude. Of course, the Quirk could really only hold it's course and hope for the best, as any fancy maneuvering on it's part at 10,000 feet meant it would quickly be dropping down into the heavier air and giving even more advantage to the E.III. No pleasant choices at all really for the BE2 flyers when they were being hunted.

 

Lewie, I don't know on your auto-pilot question, but perhaps one of the devs will drop in and enlighten us.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

.

[TaillyHo 2]

Wayfarer, in my 'early' war experience flying against Eindeckers, I would advise you take no comfort from being at 8000 - as I've often encountered them at 10,000 feet and higher. Lou's advice as to their limited abilities at these heights may give you some comfort, but ...

[Guest British_eh]

Hi there Wayfarer,

 

You can manage your Workshop Settings by going to the Sub Topic of OFF Survival In the Air Series which will give you some main parameters for the various time frames as far as altitude. As RAF L states, looking at the ceiling for most aircraft it would give you an indication.

 

Here is some more: The Germans Rumpler undertook primarily high altitude recon ( > 18,000) at distances of 20 miles across the lines. Whereas the LVG was low level ( < 12, 000) , the same as the Hanover or Halberstadt.

 

Flying for the Allies the Corps did the Tactical zone, lower altitude ( ~ 12,000') while rest did higher altitude and through to the Strategic zone ( > 18,000') and 20 miles behind the lines.

 

Much of this will be detailed in the new and improved SIA- RSS guides coming soon.

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

 

[Olham 164]

The Eindecker's service ceiling may be given as 3.000 Meter (9.842 feet), but in "Voices of Flight"

a British pilot describes how he met one at 13.000 feet.

Here is a Wikipedia page about the Eini in German - you can click it to English, but won't find the

technical data chart there.

 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_E.III#Fokker_E.III

[Wayfarer 5]

Wayfarer, in my 'early' war experience flying against Eindeckers, I would advise you take no comfort from being at 8000 - as I've often encountered them at 10,000 feet and higher. Lou's advice as to their limited abilities at these heights may give you some comfort, but ...

 

Thanks TaillyHo, and everyone else. I don't feel like I'm 'cheating' now. It seemed right to get less enemy activity at higher altitude, but to have three missions without any encounters seemed too good to be true! It takes a time to get up to 8000' or so, with much mixture adjustment and avoiding stalls. Shallow steady climbing is definitely the way, but worth it if it's a legitimate way of getting all your flight back home. It's just slightly deflating, after all the effort, when your wingmen do that diving into the trees and exploding thing once you have landed - even though they are ready for duty again the next day!

[Bullethead 12]

Which is why many find WARP so helpful, when you fly as flight leader (Tips & Cheats #50)

Right at Mission Altitude, unless of course. You'd rather do it yourself

 

But a word of caution to the noobs....

 

Warp can screw you in several ways. This is because each waypoint has an atltude assigned to it, over which you have no control at all. When you get to that waypoint during warp, you jump to its altitude (up or down, depending on wherein the flightpath you are). From that waypoint until the next, you keep the altitude of the previous waypoint, then jump to the altitude of the next waypoint when you get there. Also, warp sometimes runs amok. So...

 

1. Avoid Warping on Ingress

The assigned mission altitude only applies to the mission waypoints. In general, you'll have waypoints to orbit your field several times, at the end of which you'll be at 3-5k feet. In warp, you'll remain there until you hit the IP waypoint usually 1/2 or 3/4 of the way to the 1st mission waypoint. Then you'll suddenly jump up by about 1/2 the difference between your orbit and mission altitudes. You'll only get up to the assigned altitude at the 1st mission waypoint. Thus, if you're warping and meet enemies prior to your 1st mission waypoint (usually meaning on your side of the lines), you'll be at some pathetically low altitude while they'll be much higher.

 

2. Warping Loses Altitude Gained Manually

If you climb manually above what warping would give you, or above your assigned mission altitude, warping will drop you back down to the altitude you would have had at that point in the flight had you warped all the way.

 

3. Warping Off the Map

Occasionally, warp will miss a waypoint and send you hurtling so far behind enemy lines that you'll have no chance at all of getting back. To avoid this, ALWAYS have the map up when warping and stop warping if you see this happening.

 

But a word of caution to the noobs....

 

I forgot to add....

 

Thus, it seems like the game is intended for you to fly the missions manually, without warping. Kind of a bum deal for those of us with limited playtime, but them's the breaks.

[Wayfarer 5]

But a word of caution to the noobs....

 

Warp can screw you in several ways. This is because each waypoint has an atltude assigned to it, over which you have no control at all. When you get to that waypoint during warp, you jump to its altitude (up or down, depending on wherein the flightpath you are). From that waypoint until the next, you keep the altitude of the previous waypoint, then jump to the altitude of the next waypoint when you get there. Also, warp sometimes runs amok. So...

 

1. Avoid Warping on Ingress

The assigned mission altitude only applies to the mission waypoints. In general, you'll have waypoints to orbit your field several times, at the end of which you'll be at 3-5k feet. In warp, you'll remain there until you hit the IP waypoint usually 1/2 or 3/4 of the way to the 1st mission waypoint. Then you'll suddenly jump up by about 1/2 the difference between your orbit and mission altitudes. You'll only get up to the assigned altitude at the 1st mission waypoint. Thus, if you're warping and meet enemies prior to your 1st mission waypoint (usually meaning on your side of the lines), you'll be at some pathetically low altitude while they'll be much higher.

 

2. Warping Loses Altitude Gained Manually

If you climb manually above what warping would give you, or above your assigned mission altitude, warping will drop you back down to the altitude you would have had at that point in the flight had you warped all the way.

 

3. Warping Off the Map

Occasionally, warp will miss a waypoint and send you hurtling so far behind enemy lines that you'll have no chance at all of getting back. To avoid this, ALWAYS have the map up when warping and stop warping if you see this happening.

 

 

 

I forgot to add....

 

Thus, it seems like the game is intended for you to fly the missions manually, without warping. Kind of a bum deal for those of us with limited playtime, but them's the breaks.

 

Bullethead, thanks for that explanation. It's kind of what I suspected but hadn't fully worked out.

[TaillyHo 2]

Thanks TaillyHo, and everyone else. I don't feel like I'm 'cheating' now. It seemed right to get less enemy activity at higher altitude, but to have three missions without any encounters seemed too good to be true! It takes a time to get up to 8000' or so, with much mixture adjustment and avoiding stalls. Shallow steady climbing is definitely the way, but worth it if it's a legitimate way of getting all your flight back home. It's just slightly deflating, after all the effort, when your wingmen do that diving into the trees and exploding thing once you have landed - even though they are ready for duty again the next day!

 

Certainly not cheating, old bean! Get all the height advantage you can out of the old girl- and to that end, never mind auto-pilot (far less, warping!) just get your mechanics to adjust your elevator trim (or do it in situ in conjunction with your fuel mix tweaks) so 'steady climbing' is what she'll do naturally.

[Wayfarer 5]

How ironic!

Got a mission with average height around 10300'. Tried warping to the 1st mission waypoint just to test it. Brought me out at about 9800' to get swarmed over by Eindeckers!

And there were more flights at lower altitudes, so as we lost height they outnumbered us even more.

After losing about 75% of my fuel I managed to land at a forward airfield, with chewed up port wings, a misfiring engine and one Oswald Boelcke skimming over my head!

I really don't feel like I'm cheating now!