SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[+EricJ 4,210]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X 6 x AIM-120

Opposition: KF1-HAMMER with 8 x 18km missile and 12 x 240 km missile

 

Looks like a lot huh? Fact is this bout with the KF1-Hammer is a lot easier with a higher maneuverability jet than most other ones... But that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. For six minutes I spent energy circling this beast so no screenshots tonight, sorry. I managed to get a lock and get an AIM-120 shot to save my 9x's, which was intended to get the HAMMER to change it's logic for a 9X shot but no joy. Suffice to say that even with the enhanced maneuverability, it was only luck that he didn't come around and gun me or missile me down. However after that six minutes it wore itself out and I managed to level off and shoot it down with a 9X shot.

 

Takeaways. Needless to say before, the HAMMER is very maneuverable and has a whole lot of energy to expend. As mentioned it was pure luck that he didn't gun me or missile me. The thing is, the limited seeker cone of it's missiles essentially negates missile use during the knife fight so as long as you can hold out and prevent it from gaining a good angle then I would say you're golden. And if you're looking for that kill then hopefully you have that fuel, as I started off with around... say 16,000+lbs of fuel and ended up with 14,000. So not too bad but that requires burner and energy management in order to come out on top. So if you got the time then just make sure it doesn't maneuver itself for a gun or missile kill, because due to that limited cone, it'll do it's damndest to get on your six amd well... gun you down or get you with a missile kill.

[Caesar 305]

Got another recorded DACT match, this time, 1x F-14A vs. 2x MiG-29A.

 

 

This went pretty quick, since my heaters worked well for me, no guns kill this time.

[xclusiv8 35]

Great video ceasar. Love the music aswell! You took em down pretty easy. What kind of controller are you using? My X52 kinda make the aircraft jerk aroud like crazy but your movent are very precise.

[Caesar 305]

I also use the X52. I think it depends in part on the plane you're flying, because to me an F-16 or F/A-18 feels a lot more "jerky" than an F-14 or F-15 (faster roll rate and more "g" available across certain parts of the envelope can make the plane pull or roll harder than you anticipate).

[xclusiv8 35]

I also use the X52. I think it depends in part on the plane you're flying, because to me an F-16 or F/A-18 feels a lot more "jerky" than an F-14 or F-15 (faster roll rate and more "g" available across certain parts of the envelope can make the plane pull or roll harder than you anticipate).

 

Well that is true. Oh and what is your setting for the joystick sliders in the options menu? You have alot of deadzone? And the sensitivity?

[Caesar 305]

Shot of zee options screen:

 

[xclusiv8 35]

Thank you very much Sir!

[+EricJ 4,210]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X 6 x AIM-120

Opposition: F-31A Mustang with 4 x AIM-9M and 6 x AIM-120

 

Well... decided on a rematch with the F-31 and managed to defeat it. Started off behind him and after that he managed to draw me into some energy circles which required some finess to even keep up with him. Thankfully the enhanced performance modifications helped considerably as a couple times the Mustang managed to nearly shoot me down (screenshots below). In the first case he was flying towards me, took the shot with it sailing over my canopy where he maneuvered into my kill slot at the same time (first and second screenshots). By the third screenshot I had taken a shot with the 9X with it tracking fine but must of gotten stoopid over the flares and maneuvering. The F-31 came around and I was treated to a 9M nearly spiking me clean (I mean I had the deer in the headlights look as I watched the missile trail come towards me fourth through sixth shots). After some more maneuvering I managed to work myself into a good position, taking the shot and downing the Mustang.

 

Takeaways. Afterburner and just plain perseverence paid off on this bout, literally. That and improved aircraft maneuverability also one the day, though as you can see if he had been going for guns he could have walked his bullets right into me at least towards the end. Suffice to say if you're maneuvering and he's manneuvering and get the lock on tone, dump flares or watch as best as possible for a missile launch to hopefully evade as the second shot was pure luck and speed that saved me that time. But still take it very seriously...

 

Note: Ceasar keeps on upping the ante here so maybe I'll make videos instead but too lazy at the moment...

[Caesar 305]

Just remember to expect to get "you can't beat that plane with that plane!" comments once you post on youtube! Thinking I ought to disable comments.

[+EricJ 4,210]

Just remember to expect to get "you can't beat that plane with that plane!" comments once you post on youtube! Thinking I ought to disable comments.

 

Good point. I saw a video of a firefight in Afghanistan and they were offering their opinions but made me ask the question of "You've never been there, how would you know how a real firefight goes video game player?" But thanks for the heads up though... you use FRAPS right? How big are the files?

[Caesar 305]

F-14B vs. Su-27 1v1 DACT Video - re-post; last one had music owned by WMG - killed the vid right quick!

 

 

Pretty darn big, actually. After I post the vid, I usually delete the original file. The 7 minute fight vs. the Flanker was recorded at half size, 50 fps, and took about 4 GB. The final video, which I use Vegas for, is a hell of a lot smaller (bout 63 MB) in .wma format, 93% video quality, and still looks great.

[+EricJ 4,210]

Ehhh I'll stay with screenshots until I find something that can do it smaller, my connection isn't what would be called fast sometimes...

[Slartibartfast 153]

Nice movie for watching with early morning coffee... thanks last fight I had with a Flanker ended badly...

 

2 vs 1 adn I was the 1 in an F-4G...

[+EricJ 4,210]

Nice movie for watching with early morning coffee... thanks last fight I had with a Flanker ended badly...

 

2 vs 1 adn I was the 1 in an F-4G...

 

Despite it's size the Flanker on average has to be taken seriously... what happened other than you got shot down?

[+EricJ 4,210]

Me: F-14B_96 with 4 x AIM-9M and 4 x AIM-7M and two tanks

Opposition: Su-27 Flanker with 4 x R-73M2 and 4 x R-27

Hard FM

 

After watching Caesar's video something just didn't sit right. Not to say that he doen't know the Tomcat better but I guess an alternative view on nearly the same fight in regards to the energy circle. I personally don't like it and always try and work my way out of it whenever possible to get the opposing fighter into my sights and a sure kill. The fight started off slow and I had to nudge him into playing with me. After that it was as the video, but I guess the personal view is that when he or any other aircraft gets me into a circle I try to go vertical and then come up on top of him or at the minimum get him to do something else. He flew in a wide circle while after not flying the Turkey for awhile kept on muscling the jet trying to get my nose into him. Bad mistake as it cost me energy and speed as I felt I was just hanging in the air most of the time, setting myself up for him, not me. I managed to avoid both his R-73 shots (one can be seen in the screenshot below) after defeating it with maneuvering rather than any countermeasures. After that he went low into a circle and I managed to force/maneuver the Tomcat into a half loop, getting my nose on the Flanker and at first I thought my 'winder was going to go stoopid but it tracked and killed the Flanker.

 

Takeaways. This isn't a bash against Caesar, but rather another way to get out of the circle fight. And I still realize I'm not an expert like him (tried the flaps thing but didn't work because I was too fast) with the Tomcat, but that's another thing. However it's to show that in some cases that you can pull out of the energy fight with a vertical (make sure you have the advantage first!) and then go for the kill, if you feel it's going to work. In this case the more maneuverable jets your IR missile may be defeated through a combination of both countermeasures and maneuvering, such is life. And it also reinforces the tactic that if you got the lock on tone and he's got IR missiles, dump flares to confuse either him or the missile combined with some maneuvering or he'll spike you. And it shows I need more practice with the Tomcat but again remember for the nuggets that can't pull the stick as I can on the Super Hornet to get my nose into him better. Have to be firm and not hard with it and you'll get what you want, eventually.

Edited May 23, 2011 by EricJ

[+EricJ 4,210]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X and 8 x AIM-120 gun

Opposition: Su-27 with 4 x R-73M2 and 4 x R-27

Hard FM

 

With the successes with the EPE I thought that I'd be knocking down the Flanker quite easily. It's turning out that the Flanker is I won't say highly maneuverable, as if I can finally take on the F-31 and walk away then it would be a no brainer. Well I have to say that the Flanker likes to suck you in and make you overshoot, which it does with the lighter faster aircraft. Of course you can only do so much. Started off with keeping myself behind the Flanker while it led me out to sea. I managed to come to the conclusion that I can try and work on the knife fight AMRAAM kill rather than waste a 9X, instead toying with it until it got me back over LA. Well... it managed to suck me to overshoot, with me going defensive and working myself back into an advantage over it. I managed to get a lock and the 9X went stoopid, plowing into the ground instead. After that I worked him into a good firing position and downed him.

 

The major takeaway was that I was flying the EPE on Hard rather than Normal. Not much difference but made the stick have more resistance, and that was pretty much it as I realized halfway through it but still rolled with it. A following bout (which I won't go over since the same thing happened). I rolled quite well with the Flanker and compared to the Turkey, the couple times that the Flanker did manage to get on my six I was able to go vertical and roll back into him. I like the Flanker as an opponent since he's the one that'll make you work for your kill for an older generation aircraft as opposed to some of the new gen aircraft which with the exception of the KF2 and the F-31, aren't much to fight.

 

Normal FM bout

 

Same as above only that with the FM on Normal it was more interesting I guess. Often times the Flanker would just "hang" in the air while rolling with him. It's quite an odd experience I tell you. However the basic gist is that while it's old, it's nothing you should take seriously in the knife fight. I just wish some of the other aircraft were just as fun to roll with.

[+EricJ 4,210]

Me: EA-18G with 2 x AIM-120C, 3 x ALQ-99 pods, 2 x tanks

Opposition: Su-27 with 4 x R-73M2 and 4 x R-27

 

Naturally the Growler is not the recommended aircraft due to a "typical" configuration the aircraft and tactics is not designed to really mix it with aircraft in a dogfight. However, the main benefit over the Prowler is that I can shoot back, and have the capability for close range dogfight missiles. Again the Growler is not designed nor do tactics reflect the BVR mentality that most fighter pilots have. It's to jam and blow up radars, as it's doing in Libya currently. What the Growler has however despite the weight loading is the same general maneuverability of the E or F Super Hornets. Since I still had the Flanker setup I decided to show how to work the AIM-120 in the knife fight. Forget HOBS shots as at best the AMRAAM isn't a good HOBS missile IMHO. Once he started maneuvering I rolled easily with him tracking him. He managed to try and attempt to suck me in to overshoot but since I'm well accustomed to it I let his speed keep him ahead of me. When we got along the southern coast he started to try and weave in order to force another overshoot. At that point I locked on him, selected my AMRAAMs and shoot him with a straight shot into his rear.

 

Takeaways. If you're down on your luck with AIM-120s then the best tactic so far is to let him extend and set him up for a shot or work him into the point to where he's not maneuvering so much that an AMRAAM shot can work for you instead of going stoopid because the AIM-120 can't maneuver as efficiently as weapons such as the 9X and so on. The reason is that he's defensive and in the no escape zone. There is of course it can be defeated by countermeasures or maneuvering but then again... you may get lucky. Since he's defensive you have to be quick on the lock and then fire waiting to follow up if it misses. This is a case of tactical patience in setting him up for the kill rather than an "easier" way with IRMs but also shows that even a jammer plane can hang with the Flanker.

[+EricJ 4,210]

Me: F/A-18F EPE with 2 x AIM-9X and 8 x AIM-120 gun

Opposion: Two Su-27s with 4 x R-73 and 4 R-27 each

 

Decided to try my luck with two Flankers and came out on top. At the start they both broke and one played the target while his wingman or lead decided for my six. So I broke off the target and went for the guy going for my six. He overshot me down to my lower left as he had a wider turn to take. At the third screenshot I was in a Flanker sandwich and it was getting time to really start chopping down the threats so I can keep it manageable to just one. At this point I'm not sure which one did but one continued north which was the time I locked on the northbound while the one to my east (you can see in the second launch shot, I tried to get it all in one but wasn't good enough) was coming around at my level. I fired one 9X as it looked like a perfect stern shot while I retargeted and turned into the eastern Flanker (sixth screenshot) praying that the 9X wouldn't go stoopid on me which in the following screenshot it didn't. With his buddy burning I focused on the remaining one, which pulled me into an energy circle, which I went vertical to get a better position and this time it didn't work. Again he pulled around me as he was circling and while I came over the top I was getting his radar lock, HOBS shooting my remaining 9X while deploying flares and rolling to reengage and to jink at the same time, with the Flanker taking it right in the face.

 

Takeaways is that move move move. You have to think and move fast in order to stay alive, as one aircraft in a sense is easy but two? Makes you think... Liberal use of the overhead map helps gauge your targets movement and also joystick or keyboard use has to be known in order to do this on the fly. Only in the fact that I had to take a screenshot did the bout take longer due to getting angles and the like. Two Flankers are a real treat and also keep situationally aware and take the shot when it presents itself. Had my first 9X go stoopid I'd have a heater left and therefore could slide into an AMRAAM kill and have to be defensive until I can work my way out of it. With the higher maneuverability I could have pulled it off but it would have been interesting.

 

And a note, selecting Fighter Sweep seems to make them more aggressive rather than the Intercept "mode".

Edited May 23, 2011 by EricJ

[Caesar 305]

Sierra Hotel stuff, Eric. I've gotta go up against the Flanker a few more times, since (as the video illustrates) the energy circle doesn't work well in the Turkey vs. Flanker, yet is my preferred method of fighting - at best keeping the fight even (bad, when I could have done something to give myself the advantage!) I also botched the hell out of my unload-roll, which should have put me in a position of advantage. Your bringing the fight into the vertical at the right time worked well for you and was the smart thing to do - something I should have done against the Su-27; would have been better than dragging him into the dirt and waiting for the right moment to pounce!

[+EricJ 4,210]

True enough as the Turkey IMHO just is too damn heavy to be trying to always out duel in the circle. So far going vertical on average is the best way to do it since he also goes wide most of the time so you can probably stick to a 'winder and possibly a Sparrow shot.

 

And thanks!

Edited May 24, 2011 by EricJ

[Slartibartfast 153]

Despite it's size the Flanker on average has to be taken seriously... what happened other than you got shot down?

 

Okay I will try and do this its been awhile...

 

Okay I was tasking for a Sead Sortie Single ship as Nato IV had hacked half the squadron from the sky and I was heading into an area I knew was fairly easy going...

 

F-4G loaded as follows :-

 

3 Aim-7F Sparrow

6 Mk-20 Rockeyes

2 AGM-88A Harm

1 Centreline Drop Tank

1 ECM Pod

 

Take off etc was all normal got into the area listening to RT calls and watching everywhere at once and settled in to do the sortie fired a Harm at an SA-10 Battery getting a kill on the Flaplid and the second to take out the nearby SA-11 site, was rolling in to take cluster bomb the SA-10 battery when a missile went by me I had been getting intermittent Su-27 contacts for around 5 minutes(I have a habit of popping chaff and flares when flying Sead, when working the area especially alone. Broke into a hard turn and seeing it was an airborne started the radar and heading for the deck. Picked up what I thought was a Single Su-27 and turned to engage he turned into me and we headed into each other at about 10miles I popped a Sparrow in a classic look up shot, he was coming down the chute from around 10000ft I nailed him easily as his airframe was masking the chaff he threw out. What I didn't realise at the time was his buddy had extended out and was on my 6 about 10 miles out after popping his first missile. I turned back into him after a quick call to Red Crown and ditched everything... and stayed low in the hope of getting him with a similar Sparrow shot this didn't happen I fired both Sparrows and they went stupid... (one off the rail the other after initially tracking) it then became a game of cat and mouse at low level he lining up for a shot and me jinking wildly... I made one mistake by popping too high about 1000ft in one of my jinks and he turned inside me and fed me an Aphid or 2 flares didn't fool them and my 6-7g turn failed me as well and thats all she wrote and I took a silk letdown...

 

Fight lasted around 10 minutes and it was hard work from me as I had to conserve fuel to get home etc... while he was over his own territory...

Edited May 24, 2011 by Slartibartfast

[+EricJ 4,210]

Damn... I'll have to try the F-4 against the Flanker and see how it goes then... sounds like the Phantom just doesn't have the oomph... well if properly managed maybe... I'll try it.

[+EricJ 4,210]

Just did a couple bouts... and my view is that the Phantom just doesn't have IMHO the energy to maintain the energy curve like the Flanker can. General maneuvering (i.e. banking, etc.) will help get you a kill but the Phantom doesn't have the push like the Tomcat does. So if you can keep the Flanker out of the circle (tried to seriously go vertical, as it just didn't feel like it was happening where the Flanker got on my tail and shot me with an R-73.

[Caesar 305]

F-14B vs. Flankers #2

 

[+EricJ 4,210]

Me: F-4E (78) with 4 x AIM-9L, 4 x AIM-7F, gun

Opposition: F-104G with 4 x IRIS-T

 

Year was 2011 so the F-104 had the distinct advantage over me in that it had advanced HOBS missiles and I had Lima Sidewinders. Again the F-4E is a poor performance aircraft as after the Zipper took me in a turning fight and I tried to get out of the circle by turning into him and managing to lock and fire a Lima 'winder on him. Unfortunately he turned into me and got an IRIS-T off and I died while my Winder got stoopid and missed.

 

Takeaways: In all fairness the Phantom isn't just dogfighting material as it's simply too slow and heavy to handle a fighter designed before it. And it should be noted that it's not to point out and mock the Phantom, just an honest evaluation of a good strike fighter, not dogfighter.