SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[saisran 84]

Judging

 

Finally i got to fly some of the F-104's out there. I can't tell how authentic its flight model is, i just d-loaded it because it was the most d-loaded version. F-104C. My impression? The thing is very nimble, and if you stay in the high 300's and the entire 400 knots region, it turns quite well. Maybe even too well. It starts buffeting during hard turns in the mid 300's so you it works as a natural "tell" when to ease off on the stick. I dropped the model folder in my NF5 installation and then i found it along with some other 104's there. I wonder if NF5 had them before (i neve looked for them), but there was no override promt so....i guess not?

Anyway, for the fights.... the first one is against a MiG-17 and the second against an early MiG-21 (i think it's a C). Before engaging these birds one on one, i flew several fighter sweeps and combat patrols with 2 against many and 4 against many, fighting mostly MiG-17's. In both missions the entry conditions are the same. We start off neutral some 25nm from each other. We merge at around angels 10 and it's enyone's ball after that. We all carry standard air-to-air loads for out birds. My own load is 2 drop tanks and 4 winders, i have no clue what the enemy has, but i saw some tracers when fighting the 17, so i know they at least have a gun. 

Fight one

Starting level at angels 15, doing 400 knots. It takes some time to pick him up on the radar, or for the GC to call him out. The video starts at the point when the GC spots him out at 25+nm and pick up a faint blip some 20+nm. I follow a relatively level intercept course until i can get a radar lock, at which point i start decending in roder to bring my self to his altitude. At around 10nm away the red light flashes and i level my nose......5nm and closing i pull my head out of the instrument table and start looking for him dead ahead. I drop the external fuel tanks. At around 2nm i finally have a tally on the bandit and i bank right in order to avoind a head on merge. At the merge he passes me on my left side and look for him in the rear view mirrors for him to turn across my tail. He has a tighter turning bird, so will probably go for a single turn, nose to nose chace and try to stay inside my turn radius. My plan is let him do it and then turn the other way around in an oblique 2 circle engagement, either pushing for a turning rate fight and going vertical and bouncing him from above. I see him in my left mirror comming in left to right, so i roll left and start my turn. I try to keep my energy up and 1/4 into the the turn i realise i have enough excess energy to press the vertical. I roll level and start pulling, trying to get at least 10000ft on my initial altitude. I am still somewhat at awe of the climb rate this bird demostrates. In just a few seconds i zoom up to angels 20+! At angels 25 i roll inverted and try to pick him up visually, but he is not to be found, so he must have failed to follow me up. I go nose down, inverted dive, radar in boresight mode and try to find a proper angle for a high deflection shot. He's at 20000ft, recovering from his zoom. I complete my split-s and go right on him. I shoot a couple of short burst as we zeep across eachothers flight paths. The second burst connects. He never has a chance to pull his nose on me. I level off and prepare for another zoom. This time i move into a more oblique curve and spot him at my 10'o clock low, loosing altitude fast. I select sidewinders to go for a missile shot in case he tries to escape and just then he crushes into the ground! It seams that burst must have hit something vital. Quite a quick and boring encounter i guess, but i chose to upload it, becuase it shows the general tactics used in the least time possible. The only thing that varies is the angle at which you will allign your boresight for a guns kill. Don't even bother with the Sidewinders.....but more on that in the second flight.

Fight two

The starting setup is pretty much the same (no big surprise there, as i used the same mission template) ;)
The point of divergence start around 6-7nm away as he starts to move across my hud to the right right. This and the later development, makes me belive he has no internal guns, and only rear aspect heeters. I have never seen an AI try to avoid a head to head otherways. I drop the tanks and my visual on him. We are going to merge with a bit of lateral separation, him being on my right side. I slowly turn into him, trying to conserve my energy, expecting to see him cut across my tale at any point..... but he doesn't. I have never fought MiG-21s of this early generation before (certainly not in a century fighter), so this catches me in a bit fo a surprise. An AI that decides to avoid bleeding off too much energy and go for the tightest energy circle available? But i hesitate only for a second. If he doesn't turn into me, maybe i can turn into him. I have over  450KIAS to burn i start my break. At this speed i can pull quite some gees, and i am starting to get some angles on him. I decide to play optimistic for a change and i select winders. However, he decides he is going to break too, so we pass eachother. I try to stay with him and in doing so, my air speed drops bellow 350. The Zeeper starts to buffet, so i decide to unload and regain some energy. Et voila! 2s later i am at 360KIAS and accelerating. The amount of thrust this baby has is impressive. This time i try a more conservative sustained turn approach and there he is at my 2'o clock. I remember my F-14A VS M2000 fight and try to implement the same tactic. Build up energy and then maintain pressure by bleeding it off in short intervals. It works! Two presses later, his right in my boresight. and go my first gun attempts. I am a lousy shot though (and the fact i have the winders selected does not help my gun aiming abilities). I manage to stay with him as he bleeds off though. As i saddle in right on his 6, the unspeakable happens! A missile tone! FOX 2!  Nothing...... FOX 2 again..... again nothing..... I figure out these early winders are no good so i try to find the propper lead for a gun kill once more. Several iterations later and this MiG is a fireball. Splash one!

What can i say, against a competition of it's era, this bird is very capable and quite the performer. It's also a dream to fly and veru responsove if you keep it fast. She is also a beauty to behold. I just can't get enough of her, from all angles. And flying several Phantoms up to this point, i think even these early Starfighters are generally more to my liking.

@Caesar@Eric; when you mention the Su-27, what version of it do you mean? The one incorporated in the NF5?

 

 

Watching your DACT. it seems like your zipper have beter turn ability than what i have, I really couldnt turn hard on my version without having it bleed energy and lose it. Probably same with the Flankers. the one i have is probably the same with Caesar. Quite an easy prey.

[Robert33 2]

What should be noted is that every energy tactic utilizing the vertical can be countered. There is no such thing as a clear victory path, even when enjoying a large energy advantage. The act of energy management itself is much more important then the pure quantity of it. If for example that MiG-17 was flown by a human pilot (or by an AI script that i've sometimes withessed in those Yak-9s i fight in the F-86) there is my no means a guarantee that he would oblige my ambition to shot him down. Instead of just "rolling on his back and die" there are quite a few alternatives to what he did. For one he could have pulled out of his climb earlier, level off and gain some air speed. This would have allowed him to counter my dive on him in at least two ways. First, he could have executed a hard break at the last few moments and thanks to his superior turning radius, there would have been nothing i could have done, except to try and reposition for another attack. A more offensive minded pilot could have used his preserved energy to pull up on me, threaten me with his guns, again something he could do faster because of his better turning ability. So, just because you have the energy advantage it doesn't mean you are sure to win. Don't let your self be cought in that Boyd-narrow-minded pattern of thinking. It is the AC with the energy advantage that detemines when and how a fight starts, that is true, but it is the AC with the angles advantage that decides how it's going to be fought.

 

Add modern avionics and all spect missiles in the pot and you have even less certainty. That stunt that let me hang inverted at 25000ft doing 200KIAS? I would have made a juicy target for Mike or X-ray, with my afterburner plume against the sky, and airspeed that low. Even more so on my way up, especially cause i lost sight of him. It's just a lucky expolit (as Eric mentioned), that an AI equiped with a gun, is often more aggresive and will risk more to get its nose on you for a shot. Against a another human..... you would usually need some kind of a "tell" he is out of energy, which means you can safely push for the vetical.

 

About the comparisson, you mean an F-15 against the F-104 or a MiG-23 against F-104?

All very valid points. Spot on actually. Especially about the zoom climb part. Even in my mobile version, I dare not go into a zoom climb when I'm up against the more modern MiGs. And if they do catch me in one, I try to quickly go into a split-s/ inverted dive and pray that those missiles lose their lock chasing a very fast target.

 

With regards to the comparison DACT, I was talking about F-104G vs MiG-23... Though if you're feeling gutsy, you can also do one against the F-15 :p of course that's pretty much feasible in a guns-only setting IMHO

Edited October 15, 2014 by Robert33

[macelena 1,070]

I did some F-104 vs F-15s a while back, it was a matter of flying nap of the earth at near Mach 1 to avoid their Sparrows, zoom behind and below them and keep fast and out of their nose to avoid a AIM-9L faceshot. With reliable missiles, like AIM-9Ns or Ps, you can have a fair chance to get them, as they are more reliable (or were, when i tried them in an earlier patch level) than all-aspect missiles against flares. 

[cougar_1979 37]

Judging

 

 

 

Watching your DACT. it seems like your zipper have beter turn ability than what i have, I really couldnt turn hard on my version without having it bleed energy and lose it. Probably same with the Flankers. the one i have is probably the same with Caesar. Quite an easy prey.

I would not be surprised at that. There are quite a few of them to chose from.

 

I did some F-104 vs F-15s a while back, it was a matter of flying nap of the earth at near Mach 1 to avoid their Sparrows, zoom behind and below them and keep fast and out of their nose to avoid a AIM-9L faceshot. With reliable missiles, like AIM-9Ns or Ps, you can have a fair chance to get them, as they are more reliable (or were, when i tried them in an earlier patch level) than all-aspect missiles against flares. 

What would be the F-104 version you would recomend as being the most authentic when compared with the real thing?

[macelena 1,070]

What would be the F-104 version you would recomend as being the most authentic when compared with the real thing?

 

I don´t know, that´s why i haven´t done a DACT report myself yet, will have to check each mod available. The first that comes to mind is SFP1s, it was hard, but fun as hell. 

[+SupGen 79]

  Alright, I'm gonna assume all you Zipper drivers somehow missed this; so, here it is again: http://combatace.com/topic/62762-sf2-series-dact-reports-and-related-a2a-discussions-game-only/page-42?do=findComment&comment=676849 . Considering the different versions of the F-104 out there, it's probably better if you just go into the Data.ini and under Control Surfaces change the Setting[1].DeployValue= from 231.5 to 282.9 on all four flap entries. Again, this is not a cheat, the real world aircraft had this capability. Knock 'em dead.

Edited October 16, 2014 by SupGen

[Robert33 2]

I did some F-104 vs F-15s a while back, it was a matter of flying nap of the earth at near Mach 1 to avoid their Sparrows, zoom behind and below them and keep fast and out of their nose to avoid a AIM-9L faceshot. With reliable missiles, like AIM-9Ns or Ps, you can have a fair chance to get them, as they are more reliable (or were, when i tried them in an earlier patch level) than all-aspect missiles against flares.

I take it that you did it with a wingman? Or was it a mostly solo or 1v1 affair?

[saisran 84]

  For you guys flying the Zipper; the real aircraft was able to deploy both leading and trailing edge flaps at speeds up to 550 KIAS. This helped immensely in a dogfight with most pilots saying they could easily out-turn an F-4, for instance. This is not reflected in the Data.inis of the stock F-104s. Under Control Surfaces use these values:

 

 

[LeftFlap]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

CLiftdc=0.3200//0.3500

CDdc=0.0955//0.0355

Cmdc=-0.0063

DeltaStallAlpha=0.0//-5.81

AreaRatio=1.000

DeploymentMethod=MANUAL

Setting[1].Angle=15.0

Setting[1].DeployValue=282.9

Setting[2].Angle=45.0

Setting[2].DeployValue=123.5

MaxDeflection=45.0

MinDeflection=0.0

ControlRate=0.2

ModelNodeName=flap_left

ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE

 

[RightFlap]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

CLiftdc=0.3200//0.3500

CDdc=0.0955//0.0355

Cmdc=-0.0063

DeltaStallAlpha=0.0//-5.81

AreaRatio=1.000

DeploymentMethod=MANUAL

Setting[1].Angle=15.0

Setting[1].DeployValue=282.9

Setting[2].Angle=45.0

Setting[2].DeployValue=123.5

MaxDeflection=45.0

MinDeflection=0.0

ControlRate=0.2

ModelNodeName=flap_right

ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE

 

[LeftLEFlap]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

CLiftdc=0.0195

CDdc=0.0545

Cmdc=-0.0009

DeltaStallAlpha=2.79

AreaRatio=1.000

DeploymentMethod=MANUAL

Setting[1].Angle=15.0

Setting[1].DeployValue=282.9

Setting[2].Angle=30.0

Setting[2].DeployValue=123.5

MaxDeflection=30.0

MinDeflection=0.0

ControlRate=0.2

ModelNodeName=leflap_left

ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE

 

[RightLEFlap]

SystemType=HIGHLIFT_DEVICE

CLiftdc=0.0195

CDdc=0.0545

Cmdc=-0.0009

DeltaStallAlpha=2.79

AreaRatio=1.000

DeploymentMethod=MANUAL

Setting[1].Angle=15.0

Setting[1].DeployValue=282.9

Setting[2].Angle=30.0

Setting[2].DeployValue=123.5

MaxDeflection=30.0

MinDeflection=0.0

ControlRate=0.2

ModelNodeName=leflap_right

ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE

 

  To use this capability you have to manualy apply the flaps to the first (takeoff) setting as you turn; don't forget and leave them on as they create a lot of drag. Obviously, this will not turn the Zipper into a UFO, but it does help alot.

 

Thanks SupGen will definitely use this. The zipper is a cute little thing.

[cougar_1979 37]

Judging

 

 

 

Watching your DACT. it seems like your zipper have beter turn ability than what i have, I really couldnt turn hard on my version without having it bleed energy and lose it. Probably same with the Flankers. the one i have is probably the same with Caesar. Quite an easy prey.

I installed the F-104 that you mentioned and gave the link to. I took her up a couple of times and as far as the nergy aspects are at stake, she is not all that different. Hoever there are some specifics that are. Namely, her buffet is more pronounced as you drop bellow 350-360KIAS during a hard pull. She also feels somewhat less stable in the yaw. There seams to be a slight increase in the pitch up momentum as well. I fought against a somewhat later version of MiG-21PF i think it was a D. This one has a gun and you can see that immediatly in the way he comes after me. In fact the very first time i plugged the mission we actually had a midair collision as i wasn't paying atention, thinking he was going to come up wide. Here is the vid. Still pretty much the same tactics. With the major difference, this time he tries to maneuver for a kill, which is a bad idea, as his deltas bleed off too much energy too fast in a turn. 2 Yo-Yos and 1 displacement roll later and he's a rocket sled:

 

[+EricJ 4,248]

Managed to take the default F-104 (only one I have) and found it fairly good for low level flying at least.  I'm pretty sure I'll take it up once i figure out the non carrier DACT mission I have, though it won't be against anything modern (no way in hell would it survive, or me for that matter) so yeah gonna give it a shot and see what happens...

[cougar_1979 37]

Here is my attempt of the 104 VS 23. I flew the F-104G conversion again, as it seams more challenging to fly..... still not sure as to why though (aside from the buffet and pitchup). Watching few docs on the plane today, it was mentioned that the german version (G) was actually heavier and less weildy then the early air superiority A and C models, so maybe there is some sort of justification for the flight models. Some input from the Zipper sages would be welcomed.

I took her up against a MiG-23ML Flogger C this time. I am even less familiar with the 23's, so i have no clue as to what version (of the miriad Soviet variations that were in service) would make for an apropriate aggresor.

Turns out, the 23 is much more docile enemy then the 21 or the 17. Faster for sure, but much less nimble and definitely not a good plane in a sustained turning fight. We started as in the previous encounters, 25nm in a neutral position, both in air to air configurations. I wasn't sure if he had any BVR capability so i tried to get bellow his horizon, hopefully thwarting a heads on shot with a little help of the ground clutter. Having no RW of any sort was a bit spooky and i hoped i would be able to see the missile visually and atempt a break, but i doubt it would have worked. As we merged i kept him on my left side and assuming we have similar energy capability i went right for him, initiating a left break. I have never fought a 23 with a fighter that wasn't of the legacy series, so i had little idea as to how this would turn out. Half a turn into to fight (and after bleeding some airspeed) we passing each other at neutral again, so my guess was probablu right, we are similar. So i decide to add a bit of a vertical in my next turn and see how thing play out. It seams i can get into a slight positional advantage, but nothing decisive and definitely not something he is not capable of neutralizing with a bit of a break. I unload to regain some energy and this time i go into a pure vertical. Turns out his break made him sluggish enough for me to get into a good postion to drop on his six. I select the winders and hope for a good tone. Attempting to evade me, he breaks even harder and this makes him even more of a sitting duck. I follow him into the break and soon we are withing 1/2 mile of each other. Unfortunately my winders have a very narrow engagement cone and i have to resort to guns again. The first short burst misses, so let him slide to my left so i can get inside his turn. This time i pull a hard break and i am right on him. He's diving for the deck and i roll after him. As he pulls up i give him another burst. This one misses as well but the next one sets him on fire. 2 more hits and his going down, Splash one!

[Robert33 2]

@Macelena

I take it that there were no fancy zoom climbs or maneuverings involved in your F-104 vs Eagle match up?

 

@Cougar

Last I checked, the F-104G was optimized for the low-level strike role... And with all that additional equipment added for the job, it seems to be expected that the G version is less nimble than the A and C versions dedicated to air superiority.

 

Capability-wise, the closest match to the more modern Floggers, the ones with radar missiles, would be the Italian F-104S, ASA and ASA/M, courtesy of the Aspide missile. A slight advantage in-close however goes to the MiG23 courtesy of its gun.

[cougar_1979 37]

Allright gentlemen, this will be a short exercise in pain....

I decided to fly a few hops in the F-104G against the F-15A, the year was 1975 and we both had air-to-air ordinance.

Hop 1. We started at 25nm, i was at angles 15 the bandit was at angels 10. I picked him up on my radar and went down to angles 7 to get a good look up on him. No use i can't lock through his jamming. Someone (probably at the GC) gives me a missile warning. Few seconds later i spot a dark dot on a white cloud at my 12 'o clock high. Half a second later it's a grey blob, another qarter second and it's a Sparrow silhouette..... there is no other quarter as i get blown up....

Hop 2. Pretty much the same right until the missile launch. As i still have the Eagle on the radar i know he's at my 12. I roll away from him and put him  on my 3. I plug in full burner and try to spot the missile. As i see the dot i pull a hard break into it and the missile streaks by, somewhere behind me. I get another missile warning, but this time i have no idea where the bandit is. Before i get the chance to pivot around the cockpit i get blown out of the sky.

Hop 3, 4, 5......12

I realizie there is no way i can play this game in a head to head encounter. So i get a good radar contact and try to memorize where he is, or put my nose on him while still BVR. Then i dive for the deck and hug the ground. He still gets some missiles off, but as i am very low and very fast, the missile seaker loses me in the clutter and all his Sparrows fail. It's now me and him at 4-5nm, just withing visual range. I pull my nose up to get a radar lock. His at my 12 high and i have a good tally on him. Switching to guns. We fly head on. We both shoot.....

Variation 1, we colide midair.....mission over (30%);
Variation 2, we shoot eachother with 20mm and both die (20%);
Variation 3, we shoot but miss and merge. I go up he goes down. I come over the top, roll in on him and pull. He rolls in on me and pulls. Second head on. WE shoot and either kill each other or colide.
        3-a. We miss but survive. I struggle to stay out of his winder detection range. We fight in the vertical. It seams like i can almost get a nose on when he breaks too       much, but he always gets just a few degrees more on me and we either pass each other or end up in a neautral merge. I run out of fuel after around 8 minutes of this sh**. Mission over.
        3-b, I fly fast and in wide energy circles, sometimes in the horizontal, sometimes in the vertical. But at all times i keep my eyes on him. As he launches his winders i pull into him and shake them. He runs out of missiles and guns me down or i run out of fuel.

Variation 4. I somehow get lucky and manage to get the pipper on him before we get within 1nm from eachother and squeeze a long 3s burst. The burst connects and either he expoldes right away or he is damaged enough so i can pull high, go over the top, roll into him and finsih him off with a Sidewinder. Sometime i get a few 20mm holls as well (once i lost my T-tail). This happened 3 out of 12 times. (25%).

Here are 3 examples of the hops. At first i was about to upload 2 of the longer ones (when he guns me down, or i run out of fuel), but i figured this would be silly. A good aviator would not allow himself to run out of gass. He would know exactly how many minutes in burner he has in his jet. So the lesson learned is, try to get a pop-up shot on him. If you fail. Try maybe antother vertical reversal and go for another shot. If you miss that use the energy you gained in the dive, hug the ground and bug out for home. You have neither the endurance, nor the lift curve to fight this fight. Ambush and luck are the key factor.

[+EricJ 4,248]

My rule of thumb is to always get the jump on the enemy fighter and see how he works out of the whole thing.  Granted it's a bit unfair but as you've probably read... I keep it to the WVR because of that reason, either you lock him up and he gets shot down or... you take one in the face

Edited October 18, 2014 by EricJ

[cougar_1979 37]

Good points there! And there is no such thing as unfair, this is war after all 

[+EricJ 4,248]

Agreed, I remember one time that I was taking off for a strike in an Su-35 in SoCal and as soon as I take off WHAM!! I get shot down by at least four F-15s so I was like "No more Red side... ever"  And if so it's set missions where I can at least take off

[saisran 84]

So saw some new cool mods for the Flanker, SU-37 terminator and new modern cockpit. Wanted to do fly with he new cockpit on the terminator but i kinda ran into problem with the cockpit not really being in place. Anyway, the Fm for the terminator is interesting. if there ever was a light  handling FM here it is. The Pitch on the thing is too much that pulling all the way  on the stick results in bleeding your energy in under 1 second while doing a 180 flip.  (see vid).  

 

Su-37 vs FA-22 Raptor. Guns only.

 

 

With my current stick setting (optimized for the tomcat) i only pulled up to 60% with this fight and its more than enough to out turn the raptor. This plane is very easy to fly. In the end i tried to coerce  the raptor to change his flight path/ break right and pull up by shooting a couple of rounds off his nose (Warthunder vs players) but it turns out to be the only shots i needed.

 

OT: Tried the new pit on the old flanker as well.

 

 

Any tips?

[Robert33 2]

@Cougar

Would the results have been different if you were using the Italian F-104S, ASA or ASA/M versions against the F-15? From what I gather, they are most capable Starfighters around with upgraded avionics and engine as well as the Sparrows/Aspide capability. The downside is that it doesn't have a gun though I've heard (not sure about the info) that the ASA/M version has its gun back to complete its air-to-air armament.

[macelena 1,070]

@Macelena

I take it that there were no fancy zoom climbs or maneuverings involved in your F-104 vs Eagle match up?

 

 

 

Yes, there were, from the low level high speed flight inbound to the merge, we overshot as they started an spiral down on as, usually, then dove back into them, rolling is easier than turning. Then, you get a fairly good enough position to use the AAMsor spray with gun. If the first time it doesn´t work, try again, but the longer you do, the more easily they will eventually catch you. Indeed, it is only doable as the AI doesn´t work too well on the vertical and you get that close by taking advantage of the terrain in ways wich you can´t do in real life as easily, such as obscuring their line of sight with hills and so. Also, after the merge climb it is more critical than ever to keep awareness at all times of how is the Eagle maneuvering so when you dive back, you can be accurate enough to do it in the right spot, the is very little margin for error. 

 

 

 

Did another between IRIAF Tomcats and IDFAF Baz, 2vs2 on a clear night. They got us painted since we took off at around 60 miles. Both sides kept ECM running until my wingman managed to shoot one of them down with a Phoenix, but they spoiled all other launches, i guess with ECM, or at least so it seemed. They appeared to be much farther than where i knew they really were, when my own radar burned through, they where much closer than TWS displayed them. The surviving Baz took out the other AliCat with an Sparrow, and i dodged them by beaming, ECM and using ground clutter.

 

During the merge, he launched an AIM-9L wich hit me, but as i saw several times, when you get hit (or the AI for that matter) with a AIM-9L while flying supersonic as i was from the front, it is quit possible that the missile detonates by you but the damage is so slight that it is in fact uneffective. As i had no faceshooters, i had to get on his six. We merged and i did went on the vertical to burn speed for a good position, and got into an slow turning fight. For once, i managed to keep the Tomcat fly as i wanted him to, and, flying at 200 knots versus him at 300, he eventually went defensive, and when he tried to unload, i shot the two winders less than a mile from his tail. 

[cougar_1979 37]

 

 

Any tips?

I can't think of any, you seam to have got a god grip on the air to air gunnery :)

 

@Cougar

Would the results have been different if you were using the Italian F-104S, ASA or ASA/M versions against the F-15? From what I gather, they are most capable Starfighters around with upgraded avionics and engine as well as the Sparrows/Aspide capability. The downside is that it doesn't have a gun though I've heard (not sure about the info) that the ASA/M version has its gun back to complete its air-to-air armament.

I don't think so. You would need quite the radar to burn through his jamming and i can't see a radar that big put on a small fighter as the 104. Even if you could find the room for it, it would seriously disturb the center of gravity. Aside from that, maybe a smaller but "smarter" radar would help, but for that you would need latest generation AESA radars. But yould you put that on century fighter???

[Robert33 2]

@Cougar

No sense in putting an AESA radar in a century series. They're good planes but their time in the spotlight is over. Just curious about the what-ifs since I've come across a lot of anecdotes from retired fighter jocks just how good their planes are. and any inputs from folks in the know is always appreciated.

[cougar_1979 37]

I think i found a decent relatively even match for the 104. Mirage F1 and it's variations. I mean, as long as this isn't BVR. The F1 is worse in the vertical, but still farely fast. It is a better turner then the 104 on the other side. As long as you don't bring it under 400KIAS. Under no conditions do you bring it bellow 300 as it has some nasty stalling issues. Anyways both AC seamed a bit equal to me when i flew them (again, guns only, or rear heaters).

[Robert33 2]

@Cougar

Well, if we're talking about BVR, the F-104S and its derivatives seems to match the Mirage F1... Then again, I could be wrong since I'm not familiar with the Mirage F1's BVR capabilities.

[+EricJ 4,248]

So saw some new cool mods for the Flanker, SU-37 terminator and new modern cockpit. Wanted to do fly with he new cockpit on the terminator but i kinda ran into problem with the cockpit not really being in place. Anyway, the Fm for the terminator is interesting. if there ever was a light  handling FM here it is. The Pitch on the thing is too much that pulling all the way  on the stick results in bleeding your energy in under 1 second while doing a 180 flip.  (see vid).  

 

Su-37 vs FA-22 Raptor. Guns only.

 

 

With my current stick setting (optimized for the tomcat) i only pulled up to 60% with this fight and its more than enough to out turn the raptor. This plane is very easy to fly. In the end i tried to coerce  the raptor to change his flight path/ break right and pull up by shooting a couple of rounds off his nose (Warthunder vs players) but it turns out to be the only shots i needed.

 

OT: Tried the new pit on the old flanker as well.

 

img00172.JPG

 

Any tips?

 

It's been a long time.. my MKI position is this:

 

[CockpitSeat001]

Position=0.0000,6.25,1.50

 

I remember there was some other modification due to the '13 patch update or so that borked a lot of cockpits, but I think it was this line:

 

OpenCockpit=FALSE

 

Add that to your Cockpit.ini and that may fix that issue in the same [CockpitSeat001]

Edited October 19, 2014 by EricJ

[Kyot54 2]

"I took her up against a MiG-23ML Flogger C this time. I am even less familiar with the 23's, so i have no clue as to what version (of the miriad Soviet variations that were in service) would make for an apropriate aggresor.

Turns out, the 23 is much more docile enemy then the 21 or the 17. Faster for sure, but much less nimble and definitely not a good plane in a sustained turning fight. We started as in the previous encounters, 25nm in a neutral position, both in air to air configurations. I wasn't sure if he had any BVR capability so i tried to get bellow his horizon, hopefully thwarting a heads on shot with a little help of the ground clutter." Cougar_1979

 

   Sorry for lack of posting lately, real life has been kinda busy.  So, thanks to a few things I've become a little bit of a Flogger "expert" of late. Mainly because I've been trying to work out some kind of showdown between MiG-23's and the Crusader (which maintains a comfortable lead as my number two steed behind the Tomcat). Here's some of the breakdown.

 

      Any -23's with the designations beginning with B (MiG-23BN) are mud-movers, akin to the MiG-27

 

      Early, more interceptor oriented -23's fell under M, MF designation, they were generally designated Flogger-B's by NATO

 

      Later, when it was discovered some maneuverability was necessary, they lighted things up by dropping a rear fuselage fuel tank, shortening the fin root to the vertical tail, as well as a few other things. These all fell under ML (L for Light) designations: ML, MLA, and P, and called Flogger-G's by NATO.

 

     Generally all Floggers had Radar-homing, BVR capability utilizing the AA-7 "Apex", and I know all to well, it can be a pain in the game. I generally want to at least take E, H, or J Crusaders so I can have chaff to pop out going head to head. Without ECM, they will generally start shooting at you about 10 miles out, ECM can reduce that to 6 or 7, easy to beat if you are a Phantom with a load of Sparrows, but a nice challenge for spoofing skills if you only have 'winders  like the 'Sader. I found all this out are I was trying to customize the loadouts on my -23s to just have IR's only. I had to make one of them flyable and go from there. Considering there are at least 7 or 8 versions for AI, I wanted one that would be useful all around, so I picked the ML. They will be a bit more aggressive trying to maneuver with you, but they still aren't much of a turning challenge. They can put up some good gun-tracking D when they want though.  

 

     Moving on, I have had some interesting DACT fights, not all of them on purpose. Try 2 A-10C vs 4 MiG-29's and 2 MiG-31's. Needless to say I got waxed, close in by the Foxhound as I was tracking a Fulcrum for guns, having already dispatched 1 with the 'winders, as had my wingman. But the Warthog isn't a speedster, so trying to close range on a Fulcrum can take a moment or two, hence ending up with a Foxhound at my six. The kicker was all this was set up by the game, I was picking "Armed Recon" with light Air activity on the mission selector :/

 

     Took some refresher courses in the Phantom, which then reminded me why I'm not really a fan. I don't know if the SF flight model is off or not, but there is no reason it should be such a pig down under 10,000 ft. According to "Scream of Eagles", a book about the establishment of Topgun, as Phantom pilots (including Crusader guys moving over as their squadrons transitioned, VF-51 and VF-111 for example) began to experiment with ACM post-Rolling Thunder they found that it (F-4) was able to out duel the Crusaders below about 15K ft, above that it was the Crusaders who had the fun. In game it does seem to matter what my combat weight or altitude is, the Crusader handles like a muscle car while the Phantom feels like a bus. And it doesn't seem like the much lauded "power" of the J79's is anywhere to be found, except maybe in a dive. Acceleration with any kind of G-load just doesn't seem to happen.

 

    There's just some planes that while they carved a nice niche, could have been even better. The A-5 is one of those in my opinion. So, like I'm sure others have done, with other planes, I brought it up to somewhere closer to the level I thought it should be. IRL, the A-5 was state of the art, one of the first planes to have a HUD, and Fly-by-wire. It was very fast, and very maneuverable for such a big plane. It's wing-loading was decent and without stores weighed comparable to the Phantom, Eagle, Super Hornet. So, to take advantage of these, I dropped the R from the RA-5C, replaced the recon canoe with a "gun canoe" incorporating a M-61 Vulcan with 950 rounds. To keep the speed advantage I usually carry low drag ordnance such as 4 Mk84's as opposed to 24 Mk82's, Walleye's, and often Iron Hand loads: it looks great with 4 STARMs on the wings. Since I was drag conscientious, I don't want to load it down with air-to-air setups (even for defense) like the inboard pylons on Phantoms, though each pylon can still handle a 'winder apiece. And I can say with experiential certainty, an A-5C properly equipped can hold its own against MiG-17's (still use vertical), -21's and -23's. Haven't taken it against any Hunters or Mirages yet, but I'm sure it will do well. My only thing is, we need some more Vigi skins, but that's a topic for another topic, lol.  

Edited October 19, 2014 by Kyot54