SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[Do335 382]

...typhoon...

hey was wondering how it would end half way thru the vid, turns out it's a curve ball. by changing the plane of maneuver and rhythm of the fight, the ever lasting energy circle was broken, leaving a confused flanker and a victorious EF... me likes:)

(PS i have typhoon phobia. thing was almost unbeatable for me in my falcon time... good to see it's not so OP here)

[saisran 84]

hey was wondering how it would end half way thru the vid, turns out it's a curve ball. by changing the plane of maneuver and rhythm of the fight, the ever lasting energy circle was broken, leaving a confused flanker and a victorious EF... me likes:)

(PS i have typhoon phobia. thing was almost unbeatable for me in my falcon time... good to see it's not so OP here)

 

Thanks. Glad you like it! The energy circle was inevitable as i was trying to figure out my my advantages and disadvantages. As it turns out i find that energy circles are a good way to measure your planes performance against the enemy. :P

 

never got the chance to try Falcon. Aside from Ace combat this is the only game i played where i can fly jets. :)

[cougar_1979 37]

hey appreciate it guys. a bit occupied today, mayhaps gonna try the hunter tomorrow.

what the... that's unworldly going thru all the trouble to implement a wing sweep but just to serve as a glorified flap... hell. also reminds me how little i actually know of some of them ruskie birds... thanks mate that's good info for me.

 

 

PS i did some research on what the buffet means in the game and here's what i came up with, based on what TK said in some posts.

basically you start to hear the buffet sound once your alpha goes past "alphastall" and your aircraft's CL is on a reduced slant. more over some stall characteristics also kicks in once past it. anyway the point i got from this is to avoid buffeting as much as possible, unless pulling in for a shot / doing last ditch maneuvers etc.

 

Yah, it surprised me too. Not that it was dificult to surprise me. The last time i flew MiG-23's for any significant period of time, was in the old "Dogfight -80 years of aerial warfare" sim. And back then, the only stall was the one you reached when you airspeed was bellow your unloaded stall speed. Turbulances? Flutter? Buffet? No such things back then, you just point your nose where you want it and it kept going. The thing was pretty good there (MiG-23). It could tangle with  the F-16, F-4 and MiG-21 quite well. But back to real life performance...... the buffeting isn't the only issue with the plane during the medium and high alpha flight, the wing sweep was regulates with a manual handle or switch or something. Imagine trying to keep up manually with the airspeed while looking around the "coffin", attempting to get a tally on the bandit....

Pretty much man, rule of thumb is to not press too much if that's happening (learning the hard way again in DCS but gotten better) or you'll just stall and that's about it.

 

I got a new stick (a buddy got it for me as a thanks for some consulting I did for him), a Thrustmaster Hotas X so I have to relearn a new stick (the detent is just annoying as I prefer the smooth movement of the Logitech) so within a few days I'll probably be posting a new DACT as soon as I get used to the new stick.

Yeah i agree. And the stick setting plays a large role in this. I remember, when i first flew SF2 (coming from Falcon) my stick discipline was awfull. I kept overpulling and buffeting my F-14A so much, that i could not maintain any performance turn at all, let alone the best one. Then slowly i started experimenting with stick settings and sensitivity, until i found my sweet spot. Still, i fly the 2 sims with entirely separate stick settings. On a more personal note, i am still to find a stick i would be 100% happy with (it would have to have 2 separatre throttle levers to say the least).

 

hey was wondering how it would end half way thru the vid, turns out it's a curve ball. by changing the plane of maneuver and rhythm of the fight, the ever lasting energy circle was broken, leaving a confused flanker and a victorious EF... me likes:)

(PS i have typhoon phobia. thing was almost unbeatable for me in my falcon time... good to see it's not so OP here)

 

Me too. And Rafale phobia as well. The only way i could outfight those things in Falcon was to bring the Cat (B version) really low, almost ground level and use terrrain to my advantage. I definitely think those 2 birds were overmodelled.

Thanks. Glad you like it! The energy circle was inevitable as i was trying to figure out my my advantages and disadvantages. As it turns out i find that energy circles are a good way to measure your planes performance against the enemy. :P

 

never got the chance to try Falcon. Aside from Ace combat this is the only game i played where i can fly jets. :)

My opinion exactly. My first fights against a new bandit are almost always turning contest, as i try to get the "feel" of the enemy AC. Even in my current series of DACTs i try to avoid using the vertical in order to measure the AC's just by their turning ability. Well...not just by that (climb and acceleration matter as well), but you know what i mean....

[+EricJ 4,245]

@EricJ

Mobile versions of most games are easier in general since they have to appeal to a larger market than dedicated games like SF2. That said, games on mobile platforms are generally less capable compared to their PC counterparts. With regards to missile accuracy, I would say that for a mobile game, there's still a degree of realism to it. Fire any missile from the 50's - 80's (rather sweeping statement there) at ranges closer and at angles higher than I was at on the video and they will miss. Note that I didn't just fire my missiles even when the indicator said that the missile will surely hit (99%). And yes, at lvl 100, bogeys in this game know how to dodge missiles or spoil gun solutions... Just not all the time and the AI here is certainly more of a sitting duck (solo) compared to the ones on the PC version.

 

True, but the type of play reminds me when Flanker 1.5 was out... for some stupid reason I never flew stick, was kinda against it.  Then Flanker2.0 rolled around and got a Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 and been flying stick since.  I flew the same way with OFP to A3 helicopters with mouse and keyboard and earlier this year figured out how to fly helos with a stick as well.  So yeah... can't not fly without a stick and so on.  but its good to know there is some realism in a mobile game...

[+EricJ 4,245]

2nd fight.

 

The thing i like about the Euro Fighter is that its quite easy to acclimate oneself into it. Its very predictable and forgiving that you can try to experiment with the plane just after 7 mins of flying it! I pretty much have figured out a way to fly the plane in my own terms. Probably not the way it should be flown but i figured i can win with just my way.

 

EF-2000 VS Su-27SKM

 

I let the Flanker get round behind me to see what the typhoon can really do. As soon as i saw his tracers i made my move. i rolled my plane in a dive and let the lift generated to allow the plane to pull its nose up to complete a Split S. Bandit is right behind. I wanted the flanker to lose his energy in the vertical but pulling up now will ensure a 30mm Shell on my tail so i decided to roll and dive once more but this time instead off leveling my plane i continued the pull up into the vertical. With my plane straight up i punched the airbrakes and pulled tighter. The Flanker tried to follow but lost all his energy and was forced to level out to recover. ( Choosing the external view in my mind was the right decision as the move looks so damn cool... at least to me it is :P ) I rolled my Typhoon right side up to extend a bit and reengage. I was able to get my nose round for what supposed to be a perfect position to end the fight but again my gunnery failed me.  Ended up in a turning fight with the flanker flying nose low and my euro fighter going up and down. In the end i was able to dive down inside his turn and after two short burst that missed the third one is just too damn close to miss.

 

 

Takeaways:

 

I have to re check my info on Delta's as the euro fighter really comes alive below 300 Kias. There's a wonderful feeling on pulling off stunts! need to learn some proper moves!   

 

My only thing for that video is that around 1:46 you could have pulled tighter and if you had a 'winder or ASRAAM you could have gotten a good shot as he was traveling straight for a good while there (sitting duck) but good one nonetheless.  Granted its not my engagement but when the opposition gets like that then its a good window.  And as Do335 said it's worth a shot because after the launch you could have leveled out and not stalled... but good shooting though, I just don't have the patience for gun kills most of the time...

Edited October 28, 2014 by EricJ

[saisran 84]

My only thing for that video is that around 1:46 you could have pulled tighter and if you had a 'winder or ASRAAM you could have gotten a good shot as he was traveling straight for a good while there (sitting duck) but good one nonetheless.  Granted its not my engagement but when the opposition gets like that then its a good window.  And as Do335 said it's worth a shot because after the launch you could have leveled out and not stalled... but good shooting though, I just don't have the patience for gun kills most of the time...

 

I only ever carry guns only during DACTS as i feel its the area i'm least proficient and your right, a seeker would have been the best choice for that moment. :)

 

 

Saw a few posts back someone asking for a BVR engagement. As my most favored ride is the BVR King , i just couldn't resist it. The engagement would  have been perfect except for a couple of issue. 1 - Coming from 2005 i changed the date of engagement to around 1995/6 so that screwed with the Su-30MK2s long range load outs and 2 - Looking at the log i found out that i was carrying a modified AIM-54ECCM which has a longer range, different angle of attack, and motor properties to replicate the data i got off some pro F-14 source material on the interweb, otherwise the tracking, ECM shielding, reliability and accuracy rate remains the same. Other than these two point its a standard intercept.

 

 

2 F-14B with 4x AIM-54ECCM 2x AIM-7 2x AIM-9 and guns vs 12 Su-30MK2 whatever missiles those were.

 

At first glance 2 vs 12 might be a little one sided but without other elements flying an intercept mission with later model cats loaded to the teeth can be a little bit too easy against a flight of 4 and even 8. And this being one of the occasions where my AI got a 75% kill and i got a 100% kill ratio with the phoenix, I say its just about even.

 

 

My first rule of thumb when flying intercept mission is to go much higher than my quarry. In my opinion this allows me to fire at Rmax since the missile will be covering more ground as it goes on the decent. The higher altitude also allows the missile to maintain energy better and since its looking down on top of the enemy's plane, the missile has a bigger target for the radar to track and hit. We were around 26/29K ft when i got tracked by the bandits radar. pointed my nose on the source direction and spotted the bandits on radar just over 100nm out flying at 10K ft. designated 4 Phoenix on the leads and as soon as were in range ordered My wing to attack, which he did. We closed in and lower my radar range to concentrate on the nearest group designated 4 phoenix and fired at about 60nm. The missiles hits at around 30nm at this point i assigned my wing to attack the nearest threat. selected the bandit closest to my nose and gave him an AIM-7 which downed him. By the time selected my next target my wingman has gotten his quary and the remaining bandits basically went off to run home.We went after each one with our remaining winders while the last bandit on the run got finished of by my wingman in a relatively easy gun kill. 

 

I was hoping for more excitement but it seems like after the enemy lost more than half of its force they went benign and just set a course for home. We basically got unopposed.  The next report hopefully will be more exciting as i'm gonna make sure the bandits has a proper loadout.

 

 

 

[+EricJ 4,245]

Usually the Russian AAMs modeled in-game (as realistic as possible) don't have as much range as everybody would like to believe... Makes me snicker at those pro-Russian pictures showing that in the end the Flanker will eventually outshoot a Raptor but that remains to be seen and obviously this is NOT the topic to discuss that.

 

Me: F/A-18F Block II with 4 x AIM-9X and 6 x AIM-120D, gun

Opposition: Su-30MKM with 4 x R-73/74s and a lot of R-77s, gun

 

In any case the video:

 

 

Takeaways:  My friend who sent me the stick said it would be good and he wasn't lying.  Although the detent is beginning to grow on me (still think it's annoying, but that's just Arma 3's crap throttle settings and had to do some touch and goes to get familiar with the stick more so it's better) but man... as well at around 1:40 in my video yes I could have kilt him good but again it wasn't so much that it wouldn't have taken so long its that well... had to play with the guy a bit (as while recording I wasn't too thrilled at his performance) I ended up obviously right on his twelve my six.  Not much more to say as it was pretty obvious towards the end of the energy circle I managed to work myself out much better than normal, and managed to get a good shot in.  I guess the only piece is that for missile shots (to reiterate) is that if the bogey is perpendicular to your rate of travel and regardless of angle he's going on your HUD then don't shoot, wait until he's more "stable" relative to your own flight to take the shot.  And eventually I'll figure out how to add voice after the fact (it was much easier in Flanker 2.51) so I may have to see how that goes or record while doing the engagement, but that's for the future. And also shows how long I've been away, need to add more Sukhoi's to my list as that's Operation Daruis timeframe (the MKM).

 

Thrustmaster Hotas X Review:  Overall I don't do reviews because really, some people beat me to it so it seems a wasted effort.  My first DACT with the new stick sold me as far as Strike Fighters 2 goes.  The stick despite the redonkulous detent (I really think that thi stick is good for FSX, but I don't fly commercial so...) is still something I've been missing out for a decade or so.  But even then I managed to still manipulate the throttle quite well (actually much better than the Logitech stick) and the HOTAS is still something new (again I've been playing with similar sticks to the Logitech since Flanker 2.51) so it's a departure from my "norm" but overall I'm happy with it.  After the engagement I took it on some low level flying (same configuration) and overall still have to get some more stick time in but otherwise I'm sold.

Edited October 28, 2014 by EricJ

[+EricJ 4,245]

Me: F/A-18F Block II EPE with 2 x AIM-9X, 8 x AIM-120, gun

Opposition: 2 x R-27R, 4 x R-77 and 6 x R-77, gun

 

Here's a BVR DACT (I tried to arm the other jets so I'll have to see what the deelio is with that) but the Su-30MKM was armed to the teeth so it was offered up for sacrifice.

 

 

Takeaways: I could have done my nails in that time (just kidding) but most extreme long range shots are like that, once you get the missile off the rail it's just waiting until it hits or misses.  Given the "death ray" AIM-120D was used it was fairly boring as the AI simply couldn't get in range to even think about launching a missile, but if I had missed well... it would have locked onto me and that would be that another BVR slugfest (well if he was launching at max range then I may have a chance with the small islands below me to try and break a lock or attempt to.  No ECM was used (if he had locked me I would have turned it on but still I had a range advantage.  But the only thing to note is that when the enemy aircraft isn't vaporized into a fireball you'll see the range triangle at the top of the AIM-120 seeker circle go crazy.  Granted the game allows you to watch the kill and of course a vocal message saying you shot him is enough but overall fairly standard and fairly boring.  Again I'll redownload the -27SKM and fix the loadouts of the other jets.. as it was kinda old shooting an MKM down.

[Do335 382]

here's my hunter chronicles. i was originally thinking of taking her (which seems like the British way of calling everything..) up against the mig-19, but turns out she's vastly outclassed by the Farmer. So i chose the mig-17 as the opponent.

 

1st engagement, decided to keep it horizontal. But just like the fight in fagot vs sabre, it settled in a deadlock close to stall speeds with my nose sticking up to about 45 degrees angle off and unable to do anything better.

 

again, i opted for a low yo-yo to increase my turn rate, again no avail as the fight develops into a downward spiral..

 

approaching ground level, in an attempt to break up the deadlock i pull into the vertical looping back with the mig in tow, only to find him gradually gaining to my 6 o'clock...

 

and as i pull up into the 2nd loop he opens up on me!

 

i desperately changes plane of motion but no good. he promptly shot me in the back with his 6th volley. ouch!...

 

the hunter is still flying, but the engine is completely dead and the roll is very stiff. i was able to avoid his follow on shots and put her down on the field, while the mig circles overhead like a vulture...

 

apparently this round goes to the fresco. the vertical switch was the bad call, because it seems like the fresco has better vertical performance with that afterburner of his. to be continued...

[Do335 382]

To seek revenge in the 2nd engagement, i chose the classic pure vertical move, which is to run max throttle all the way to the merge and pull up immediately after.

 

up from 15000ft apex at some 60kts/30000ft, the mig is no slouch either ending up just 5000ft below, going in the opposite direction from me.

 

split-s back and a high yo-yo later he's down from 30mm gun fire

 

so, the mig has a powerful engine but not that much powerful. but the "i-go-up-he-goes-left merge" feels more like an AI exploit, so i decide to play fair in the 3rd engagement. to be continued..

[Do335 382]

having done the previous 2 fights one thing is certain. the hunter is no better in the horizontal compared to the fresco and is even out-classed in the vertical. what can play to the hunter's hand when the playing field is even... i intend to find out in this one.

 

the fight starts. obviously i can't stick to a horizontal turn as we know how that'll turn out, and i can't go up either coz we know he'll come up and get me. so climbing turn it is. however it is still a maneuver that heavily relies on vertical performance, and as i gradually ran outta smash, there was no choice but to turn into him. it became heated, we came head on, with the mig's guns ablaze.

 

leveling out a few seconds after the mig flew by, i realize there's not enough airspeed for a pure vertical conversion, so decided to go for a one circle turn into him, while keeping some vertical movement. we meet head to head again, the trigger happy AI left me cursing for sure but i know he's not fully aimed.

 

after this second head on, a two circle developed, and i was able to out rate him and get behind his 3-9 line.

 

he continued going high, airspeed dwindling which extended my rate advantage even further. i ended up squarely on his six.

 

but, obviously the 'nam pilots saying the mig standing on one wing and ends up behind you in a blink of an eye ain't kidding, for the mig, with just 0.7 nm separation between us, broke hard left, instantly creating some 90deg angle off between us and denied me a shot... grrrrr

 

and so from this point on it is a repeat of the 1st engagement all over again. a tied up horizontal turn fight, a low yo-yo by me developing into a downward spiral, me going up upon reaching ground level... except by keeping my speed up and not completely hanging in the vertical, the fight remained neutral.

 

....until at the bottom of a loop the mig suddenly stopped maneuvering and started bugging out. I turned on debug. Yep. He's out of fuel. He then put up some evasive maneuvers, but nothing one can't handle, and ended up without a vertical tail.

 

apparently with a limited fuel load and a reheat guzzling fast, the fresco couldn't stay in a fight too long which ended up being his demise. so this concludes this engagement which... lasted a whopping 9 minutes. however, it is not over yet. to be continued...

Edited October 29, 2014 by Do335

[Do335 382]

so, 4th engagement. to get to the bottom of this i decided to reverse my role and fly the mig-17 against the hunter.

 

we merge and commence the horizontal turn fight as usual, only to arrive at the previous deadlock of me 45 degrees behind. But this time only seemingly so. gradually i notice the hunter's speed dropped below 200 while i was able to maintain around 220. the difference is trivia, but this close to stall it's enough to warrant an energy advantage. more importantly it points towards where things are heading.

 

i bank a little bit to the right to put the fresco in a slight climbing turn. bit my bit my altitude advantage built until it was enough to change my plane of motion almost completely to the vertical.

 

a few rounds later i was able to directly go up and over the top.

 

meanwhile the hunter does something amazing as well. as we know when the AI jets fly close to stall, they periodically change to "stall recovery" mode hence displaying the porpoise like floating motion. the hunter doesn't do it here, instead it handles itself quite well flying at low 100 kts. as i come down threatening him with a gunshot, he maintains his airspeed by banking downwards while turning into me, therefore repeatedly denying a tracking shot.

 

and so it got to the point that i had to settle with a high deflection shot unless i want to run myself outta fuel. still, the angle off had to be reduced somewhat... by banking to the outside a bit while coming down from the loop, i got to the outside of his turn and the hunter reversed to the right. that helped a bit. i opened up at his right hand descending turn, the rounds connect, but to be fair it was a dodgy shot at best.

 

and so the engagements with the hunter come to a close for now. in the DACT arena the mig-17 was able to out fly her just a tiny bit, but the hunter can more than hold her own, and that advantage largely comes from having an engine with afterburner. in tactical situations i feel the winner will mainly depend on initial position/energy levels of each jet, and whether the mig-17 has enough fuel to support an entire engagement. in desert campaigns with the hunter i feel that long as it's flown fast and SA is maintained, the mig-17s wasn't very hard to tangle with. it's the damn vampire fb.52s that are nail biters for those things turn on a frggin' dime...

Edited October 30, 2014 by Do335

[saisran 84]

@Do335 you're right about that on those Vampires. Was flying a fury campaign and i got into a lot of trouble with the vampires compared to the hunters and migs. Ended up placing a cockpit on the stock vampires to fly them.

[saisran 84]

Feel greatly irritated working with unprofessional professionals.  Anyone last nights engagement uploaded nicely. will just do the commentary later on.

 

 

F-16Netz Vs. Ali Cat.

 

[+EricJ 4,245]

Now that I'm starting to get back into the ED forums I've noticed an "elitist" feel for A-10C pilots, like all of a sudden they're special and better then everybody else, especially when you got more experience than them, but that's just a personal reaction to them.  Nice vid though and yeah too bad you failed the mission anyway.

[saisran 84]

Now that I'm starting to get back into the ED forums I've noticed an "elitist" feel for A-10C pilots, like all of a sudden they're special and better then everybody else, especially when you got more experience than them, but that's just a personal reaction to them.  Nice vid though and yeah too bad you failed the mission anyway.

 

Yeah. was about to edit to write the comments but you have beaten me to the punch. haha! Without a radar missile to counter the AIM-7s it took me too long to complete the mission in time. :)

[saisran 84]

Feel greatly irritated working with unprofessional professionals.  Anyone last nights engagement uploaded nicely. will just do the commentary later on.

 

 

F-16Netz Vs. Ali Cat.

 

it seems that i'm not able to edit the post to give my thoughts on the engagement so i'll settle for quoting my own. :P

 

The fight ended in a mission failed and a loss wingman. having seekers to contend with the sparrows the Ali Cats were carrying placed me in a position of disadvantage but having a wingman is a great asset. as we get closer in range the lead cat fired at the closest target he can get; "me". I placed my plane in a climb perpendicular to his missile burners on. while slowly pointing my nose back to him in his direction. while slowly dumping chaffs. All this in hopes that i can avoid the unseen missile. While the lead plane is busy trying to shoot me down o got my biggest asset in this fight to shoot him down. By the time i got y nose around to threaten the lead my wingman got him. Splash one and its now my wingman's turn to be targeted as the second ali cat is on him. Fired a winder in hopes of making him break his lock on my wing bu he stayed on course right into the path of my Phyton3. Twas a good hit. At least i thought i saw the missile connect. Apparently the Ali Cat took a page off Connery's book and pulled a Red October stunt on my phyton as he kept flying. I made an erroneous command that cost me my wingman as i was down to my last phyton and in the spirit of revenge i made it count. 

 

Testament to the well deserved moniker "Iron Works"; Grumman has made their Tomcats durable. Looking at the log it was confirmed that my first python shot hit and im willing to bet it was around the cockpit area where Grumman usually places the most protection. Not only did it survive but it even manage to took my wingman before going down himself. As for the Netz, what can i say its as sweet as every F-16 pilot claimed it to be. I read that the F-16 has a bit of a trouble in high altitudes but aside for the slower climbing feel above 24k ft and the need to be in higher thrust settings i think the in game jet can fly this regime without any significant problem.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Lol we can't win them all   But yeah you got lucky with the Cat firing a Phoenix at you, good move as usually I just go for the deck and pray

 

Me: F/A-18F Super Hornet EPE with 4 x AIM-9X, 6 x AIM-120D, centerline tank, gun

Opposition: F/A-18A 03 with 2 x AIM-9X, center tank, gun

 

 

Takeaways:  The added push from the EPE engines gave me the edge compared to the older model Hornet.  While I'm a Super Hornet jockey I have to look at other means to engage and have some variety.  Anyway I thought I was recording my voice but didn't happen so the actual time in-game was 3:25 but I cropped it after the death of the Hornet (I gave a rather short takeaway session that also didn't record).  Despite the glitch it was fairly fun actually but the higher thrust gave me the edge to keep with the still agile Hornet.  Didn't take as long as it was a done deal but overall the takeaway is that the Hornet is still a good opponent and while short it was a good kill and a good fight.

[Do335 382]

grrr vpn continues to fail me, can't even get on u2b to see what's going on... what happened to the python shot?

eh well gonna ditch this one and go online shopping...

[cougar_1979 37]

Some nice shooting there guys!
@Saisran, that Phoenix certainly went active quite early! Or does the RWR give the warning as soon as the missile is launched?

As far my my DACT goes, i finally went to fly the second "game" for the playoffs. I had some conectivity issues so i could not upload as soon a i wanted. That and i also had some Mirage issues ..... just for the sake of being as objective as possible...... my 104 flight was the very first try i made, my F1 flight...more like the 5th or so. Twise i ran out of ammo, twise i fell for the death-trap low altitude low airspeed spin.... but, i am getting ahead of myself.....

Hop 1, I fly the Mirage. The video is cut down to save time. Standard approach, like the previous DACTs, i go into afterburner some 5nm before the merge and we pass on our right handed side. I let him cut across my tail and go for a high subsonic-transonic sustained turn. From my previous Mirage flights i know this AC handles this part of the envelope quite well. Good sustained g-performance, no vices in maintaining controll. However, as i finish up my first 1/4 turn, decide to experiment a bit and try to get an early nose on, maybe cause the bandit to panic a bit, so i tighten my turn and bleed some energy. With my radar set to boresight i get my desired angular advantage....and nothing happens. I could rant for hours about the frustrations i had during this fight and it won't be because of the nasty stall properties of the F1.... oh no, it will be about the ability (or lack of)of the Mirage's radar to acquire a good lock on a rapidly moving target, even in a look-up situation. This would force me to fire blindly and waste the already scarse ammo supply. Anyway, needless to say, he zipps across my hud and i go into a low yo-yo to pick up some much needed speed for my pursuit. Executing a good pull up, i wind up doing 400+knots and with him right above me....still no lock. The mirage surely has a very good instantaneous performance withing this competition. It could probably out point all the other planes. However it's acceleration is not as good. In the low to mid 300's it's worse then the F-14A even. So the energy you build is a valuable resource, that has to be used wisely. In some ideal world, this turning ability would be used to go nose to nose with these high energy planes, but the resaulting flat scissors, bring the F1 too close to stalling and departing, far too close for me to be comfortable in it. Besides, i don't like energy depleating maneuvers, too many times i had a heater down my pipe in Falcon, by getting my behind way bellow the corner and losing sight of the bandit (not that it would matter if you get that slow).

So, i decide to unload a bit and setup for another puruit in the 400's. I begin to see a pattern in the way the AI uses the 104. After it has bled  off a lots of energy in a break it will point its nose up, as if to enter the "death dance", but because of the good climb rates, it would shortly afterwards dive and regain lots of energy, keeping itself defensive with quite some skill. If i am to gun him down, i will have to make my pushes more frequent in order no to let him recover. We slowly spiral to the deck. Flying in the 400's may be good for the Mirage, but it's bad for the pilot. Blackouts are frequent. I try to remedy this but cutting inside his turn and bleeding down to the mid 300's. Sustaining a turn here is less demanding. Soon i get a good nose on, but still no lock. It takes 3 more iterations of the same maneuver to finally acquire a lock. However by 2 snapshots fail to connect. What i do manage, is to make him break even harder and slow down. However, i take too much time to setup for my attack and he somehow manages to reverse on me and pass my by at my 1 'o clock high. I instictively go into a vetical climb, trying to keep my mark I's on him. As i roll over the top, he pulls his nose on me and we pass again. I try not act as a complete idiot, and use the extra time i gained from coming out of the climb first to build up some speed. I am surely not entering a climbing contest with a 104. Instead i enter another flat turn and gain some 90 degrees on him. I should have less problems keeping him defensive now. The lock is there this time, but the aspect is to high so i decide to wait for a better shot. Entering another hight performace turn i gain aditional 10-15 degrees on him and he breaks once more. I keep my energy high and the third try is a charm. He has bled off too much and is climbing to recover. I am not going to let him. Keeping pressure on him constantly i gain another 10-15 degrees. One more turn and i'll be right on his six. As i do, he levels off (either because he knows i'm behind or he ran out of fuel-i have no idea, i don't have debug on) and go after him. He reverses the turn, trying to get nose low to regain nergy, but i get my hose up first and give him a short burst which blasts him out of the sky......... Takeaways....... the F1 is a very mixed bag in the ACM arena. It has the potential to eb the best dogfighter in this group, but it's flaws make it very tricky to be used properly. If you fly like i do, i would recommend to stay away from it or use it BVR. Not even energy tactics would help this baby in this competition, as the other AC are just as good or better at it.

Hop 2, same fight, roles reversed. We merge on the same conditions, just this time on the left side. We execute a very similar sustained turn, which leaves neither of us with any significant angular advantage. As we enter the 2nd half of the turn i unload a bit, so i can get the extra energy for a harder break. I pull into him and get some angles. Not much, but just enough to put him in my view. I tighten mu turn and he dives to maintain the turning rate. It's not enough however. My energy advantage is big enough for me to maintain a constant pursuit and him breaking hard, only makes it easier for me to get behind him. As turn on his six, he reverses his turn and i prepare to overshoot. At this time i am quite happy with entering rolling scissors with him, as i am certain i have more then enough energy advantage. He makes another reverse, right under my nose but i fail to shoot him. I start my spiral in preparation for the initial climb into rolling scissors (i spiral in order to maintain visual contact) when he reverses again, apparently in an attempt to enter flat scissors. Never the less i give him another burst and this time he flies right through it, the 20mm going trough some of his left wing and fusselage. I roll again setup for another attack, but he is already burning. At his altitude it doesn't take him long to hit the ground. In just under 3 minutes. This alone speaks volumes on the realtive performance of the 2 AC. While the F1 enjoys a good angular advantage, it is far from decisve and certainly not enough to compensate for the sheer lack of performance in the other aspects. Not even the extra endurance is a saving grace as the enemy will have more then one avenue of attack to always keep you on defensive. 

Well....jsut one more series left..... 104 VS 23 and F-4 VS F1

[saisran 84]

Guys Just to clarify on the Netz vs Ali-Cat engagement; the Ali-Cats were loaded with AIM-7M and AIM-9M only, which at that range is more accurate than the phoenix but easier to break lock.

 

@ Do335 - I was blinking my eyes in disbelief as well. What happened was. the 1st Phyton3 shot connected but the superb armor of the Tomcat just brushed it off as a scratch.   Grumman is well known for pilot protection and fighter durability. Their planes can sustain heavy damage but are still able to come home. I love the fact that the game model was able to replicate it to some degree... or was the AI just lucky? 

[+EricJ 4,245]

Ahh so that's why it was easy

[Robert33 2]

@Cougar

Interesting DACT that you made there. On paper, the Mirage F1 seems to have the initial advantage in wvr with it's point-ability... until it's rather lackluster targeting systems and relatively poor energy-recovery eats it up...

[saisran 84]

Ahh so that's why it was easy

 

Yup. I wouldn't dare beam a phoenix at high altitude as i tracked one of those missiles flying at above 40K ft.

[jeanba 1,920]

The targeting capabvility of the F1 should not be that bad.

Why do you think it is ?