here's an idea......

[+daddyairplanes 9,121]

both for the general knowledge out there, and as a helluva what if, what if the Luftwaffe was reborn in 1948-9 time frame in response to the Berlin Blockade? in my mind's eye i see them being refitted with many of the late war German birds minus swastikas of course! however how quickly was the aircraaft inventory of germany smelted down? i know Wrench has a Luftwaffe Spitfire in his site for such a possibility but it would be quicker to get the pilots up to speed defending the homeland if they just had to get current again in their old mounts. FW190s for air support/tac strike, Me262 for air defense. would be interesting i would think! how about you guys?

[Wrench 9,614]

Don't forgot 99.9% off all the WW2 Luftwaffe aircraft were bulldozed into piles and burned (same as we did to the Japanese).

Hence, the 'idea' I'd had for 'Cold War 48', using what was (then freely) available.

One could fairly easily take the decals off my BLW Spit, and add it to TK's Mk.9s *, or for that matter, the Mustangs (since decals positioning on the P-51D are now well known)

 

 

*some re-templating will be required to add the 'tulip', once the nose mapping is figured out*

 

EDIT: ok, just tested .. my jv-44 fues decals are NFG in SF2. see screenshot thread for 'new' results.

 

wrench

kevin stein

Edited March 3, 2011 by Wrench

[+daddyairplanes 9,121]

Don't forgot 99.9% off all the WW2 Luftwaffe aircraft were bulldozed into piles and burned (same as we did to the Japanese).

wrench

kevin stein

 

 

hmm i thought they were smelted down so atleast the metal can be reused. that would have taken a couple of years possibly. but if they were burnt on the airfield? couple of months and no more warplanes. still ya gotta abmit Me262 v Yak 23 woulda made for an interesting addition to Ceasar and EricJ's dogfight fest

 

what about P-47s? book i have states the stocks given to 86th FW were drawn from storage in europe. would have been zehr gut fur das Jabo am der neue Luftwaffe!( very good for a new attack plane!)

[Wrench 9,614]

Mostly; just destroyed in place.

 

well, as we don't have a NextGen (fully capable) D or an M, I'm sure a quick re-decalling of Russo's N would suffice. (still needs FM work, but is fairly 'stable', as tested in KAW)

 

Again, doing Mustangs is a no brainer! And other than my aforementioned decal glitch, niether was the Spit

 

wrench

kevin stein

Edited March 4, 2011 by Wrench

[+daddyairplanes 9,121]

Mostly; just destroyed in place.

 

well, as we don't have a NextGen (fully capable) D or an M, I'm sure a quick re-decalling of Russo's N would suffice. (still needs FM work, but is fairly 'stable', as tested in KAW)

 

Again, doing Mustangs is a no brainer! And other than my aforementioned decal glitch, niether was the Spit

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

 

you would think Mustangs as a no brainer but you just dont see many in Europe when lookin up the early postwar years. i am aware of Russo's N and its behavior in Gen2. lets say im eagerly watchin developments on new Jugs! yet it is the only one where the control surfaces fully move so tis what i've got to work withnother idea is F-80s goin to Germany rather than south america as the US was done with them. ya didnt think we were gonna give them top of the line stuff early on did ya?

[PraetorH 166]

Coincedently, I had a similar idea long ago. Back then, I used Il2 1946 to try it (which I think is better suited for the period). Unfortunatly time was running out so I never got far...

 

Btw, the allies were requesting West-Germany to form a military quite early on, in 1950. A year later, the Bundesgrenzschutz (Federal Border Protection) was mustered, and although it officially was more of a police force, it had quite heavy weapons and military structure. When in 1955 the Bundeswehr was officially announced more than half of the BGS personnel went to the Bundeswehr, while the naval branch of the BGS switched entirely and became the Bundesmarine.

There was a similar developement in East-Germany with the Kasernierte Volkspolizei (Barracked People's Police), which was to become the NVA.

[+daddyairplanes 9,121]

very interesting info, the type like i said that seems hard to find lately. thank you for sharin it with us(and give us some more if you got nuggets like that:good: )

[PraetorH 166]

Well it is interesting to know that the Bundesgrenzschutz was using Wehrmacht-Equipment as much as possible. In the beginning it did so because it was there and cheap. But not much has survived: mostly helmets, camouflage suits, and light weapons.

When the Bundeswehr was created it was soon forbidden to use this equipment because they wanted to avoid the Wehrmacht-image. Ironically, although being second in line now, the BGS kept its military character in some of their units, which were the equivalents of light infantry (Jäger). And they never abandoned some of the Wehrmacht equipment.

 

Here are some pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and here is my try on a BGS fighter…

 

 

 

I have lost my tries on the early Bundeswehr fighters (TA-183) and early NVA (MiG 9), but these are the ones of HuninMunin:

 

[+KnightWolf45 1,147]

real cool man

[+daddyairplanes 9,121]

cool both in the photos and the what if! dont think the volksjager would have mad a good trainer as it was a handful for experienced pilots and downright dangerous for the inexperienced but coo concepts esp with the huckbein in action.....

[Spinners 15,981]

@ PH. Great minds think alike! My skinning project yesterday was the Ta-183 dressed up an early Soviet jet fighter.

 

Introducing the Lavochkin La-13 'Fibber'

 

 

More piccies at my what if thread.

 

 

 

[PraetorH 166]

What a coincidence!

However I do not like that design of the Ta 183... I do not mean your Soviet dress up, but the general design. This particular short but massive design of what we often see as "Ta 183" traces back to a mixed engine powered project called Fw Strahljäger VI, which had not only a HeS 011 engine projected but also a rocket engine right above it. That is why it needed such a tall fusalage. But Hans Multhopp abandoned the mixed powered concept, which resulted in various changes in the end. The final design looked entirely different, especially nose and tail section.

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-ii.html

 

I guess the superficial similarity of the earlier design to the MiG 15 makes it more popular... Well, it has a strange appeal, I cannot deny that

 

 

@ DA, indeed the He 162 not the easiest bird to fly due to the strange center of gravity. But as long as one had thrust it was a rather save aircraft (for its time).

[+daddyairplanes 9,121]

new idea along this road. post Airlift, towards the end of 1949. the tools and dies for Fw190, lets say the Dora and Me262 are gone. but the US and UK have several of the aircraft and whereabouts on the engineers. way back in the American and Brit sectors factories pop up as the aircraft are reverse engineered to develop the industrial base needed to put these aircraft back into production. of course some changes are made for the new circumstanses and developments over the last 4 years. 2 20mm canon in both birds, the 190 for CAS and the 262 for interception duties. however the Me will need a new engine. i think it was Galland who said he'd be unbeatable in a Avon powered 262? and as not to completely botch the timeline as occurred they would be under Allied control as an air arm of the BGS. hmmm..........

[+Gepard 10,619]

Praetor, the national insignia of the GDR were wrong at this timeframe. No Hammer, Zirkel und Ährenkranz, and no wide red part of the insignia, this came in 1960 or 61. In the first insignia all tree colors had the same wide.

 

A east vs west german scenario campaign i made a long time ago for SFP1 Deutschland terrain (http://combatace.com/files/file/3716-deutschland-terrain-version-11/). F-86 on the one side vs MiG-15 on the other. Set in 1956 as Korea War replacement. Such a inner german war, i personally think, would have been very possible if US, France, and theUK on the one side and the USSR on the other side would have left their zones in Germany in 1948 or 1948 as they had done it in Korea at the same time. So the Korea War would never had happend, instead the Germany War would have been started. And all folks in east and west would have had seen it with pleasure how the germans, who started two worldwide wars in the 20 century, fought each other and destroy what had survived the firestorm of WW2.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Gepard