When you feel lonesome...

[Olham 164]

Just felt a bit in need of company after a flight in a Sopwith scout.

And just for the fun of it, I made a flight in a two-seater: a Roland C:II.

 

Man, that beast is a joy to fly. I heard my gunner giving his best, and I let him do that part

of the job, cause my shooting with the rear guns is less effective, but I pilot much more

evasive. The whole time during our fight against Pups, I felt the presence of the second

man in the kite quite comforting. Even if I should die, I won't die alone.

Hope you don't regard that as being crazy?

 

So, why don't you try the "Walfisch" - or the Bristol Fighter? What about the "Fee"?

You won't fly alone!

[Lewie 7]

The Bleriot XI-2 seater from SimOH's downloads is a hoot as the single Lewis on a pintle mount is pretty effective. It has to be because the Bleriot isn't a very fast or maneuverable kite. I also like the OFF Fee, but the darn AI flies the thing like a Brisfit, I don't see how the gunner could keep himself in the cockpit with all the gyrating that crate does when flying defensively.

[TaillyHo 2]

Just felt a bit in need of company after a flight in a Sopwith scout.

And just for the fun of it, I made a flight in a two-seater: a Roland C:II.

 

Man, that beast is a joy to fly. I heard my gunner giving his best, and I let him do that part

of the job, cause my shooting with the rear guns is less effective, but I pilot much more

evasive. The whole time during our fight against Pups, I felt the presence of the second

man in the kite quite comforting. Even if I should die, I won't die alone.

Hope you don't regard that as being crazy?

 

So, why don't you try the "Walfisch" - or the Bristol Fighter? What about the "Fee"?

You won't fly alone!

 

See my post under your survey thread as to why I don't fly the 'Walfisch', Olham (!)

 

In recent times, my longer-life pilots have respectively 'graduated' from Strutter to Pup; and DFW to Albatros D.II - in both cases I can appreciate some benefit in manoeuvreability of my craft, but I'm not sure it's worth sacrificing the added sense of wellbeing (and firepower) that comes from having a rear gunner (especially as good as my Strutter observer was in this capacity!). Also, strikes me that the DFW both climbs and dives better than the Albatros - but I'm sure I'm buying into an argument by saying anything against your favourite 'bird'.

[Olham 164]

I also like the OFF Fee, but the darn AI flies the thing like a Brisfit, I don't see how the gunner

could keep himself in the cockpit with all the gyrating that crate does when flying defensively.

What??? The Fee SHOULD behave more like a scout, but in my OFF, it never does.

Maybe it does, when you take the gunner position? Never tried that. But it's hard to hit anything,

and you will be more helpful, if you pilot the crate so, that your gunner always has a clear field

of fire. Then he'll be really useful.

 

No problem, TaillyHo - the Albatros isn't the best fighter - I simply love it and overlook it's mistakes.

The DFW is rather ugly, but a very good early two-seater. She can climb away from Nupes, cause

she has good climb and still more speed.

She can dive well, but she cannot dive better than the Albatros D.II - better than the D.III yes, cause

that version had those weak lower wings.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Olham

[TaillyHo 2]

No problem, TaillyHo - the Albatros isn't the best fighter - I simply love it and overlook it's mistakes.

The DFW is rather ugly, but a very good early two-seater. She can climb away from Nupes, cause

she has good climb and still more speed.

She can dive well, but she cannot dive better than the Albatros D.II - better than the D.III yes, cause

that version had those weak lower wings.

 

Ah, das ist gut to know the D.II is fully 'diveable' at least, Herr Oberleutant. I shall pass on that intelligence to Offizierstellvertreter Breckheimer at Jasta 6 right away.

[Olham 164]

Yes, tell him! He should enjoy it for the time being. The D.III is another story.

But the D.III is a good fighter - you only have to be more careful with high G.

[77Scout 3]

The Fee SHOULD behave more like a scout, but in my OFF, it never does.

 

Yes, in campaign the Fee's never do anything but fly straight and level. If you look in the aircraft files all Fe2's are set to catagory "tactical bomber", so I don't think you'll ever see any fighter-type behaviour.

 

As a result, flying in an Eindecker you can shoot down as many Fee's as your ammo supply will manage ... just stay behind them and fire away. In real life, the Fee's helped end the Fokker scourge, and an lone Eindecker would fear a flight of Fee's.

 

One of these days I may edit the aircraft files to make the Fee a "fighter-bomber" and see how that plays out in-game.

[Lewie 7]

What??? The Fee SHOULD behave more like a scout, but in my OFF, it never does.

Maybe it does, when you take the gunner position? Never tried that. But it's hard to hit anything,

and you will be more helpful, if you pilot the crate so, that your gunner always has a clear field

of fire. Then he'll be really useful..

Well I have yet to have flown the Fee from the gunners seat, but while flying a Halberstadt DII against two Fees in QC the first thing they do is a defensive spit and dive. If I was in the gunners seat I wouldn't be trying to shoot over the top wing while the pilot was hauling that barge around at speed. No you find me trying to hang on as best I could.

 

Have you read 'Horses Don't Fly' by Frederick Libby? He was an American who joined up with the RFC in 1916, ( he was in Canada working at the time..) and flew Fees until 1917. Fred does a good job of describing the day to day operations of a Fee squadron in Flanders. He was personally responisble for the use of rear gunstocks being installed on the Lewis to help give the gunner better control of the Lewis while in a pitching and slewing front cockpit. He also describes in great detail his first kill of a Fokker Eindekker. The Eindekkers were not easy targets. but they had no advantage in maneuverability over the Fee.

[Bullethead 12]

So, why don't you try the "Walfisch"

 

I did and I can't fly it. The inability to see the horizon above about 1000m makes me nauseous, especailly with TIR. And even if I have a bucket handy to puke in and so stick out a sortie, there's utter lack of visibility of the ground when it's time for landing. My very few Roiland pilots have all died in landing accidents.

 

What about the "Fee"?

 

Now there's a ride worthy of true champions of the air. If you think you're a great pilot, see what you can do in a Fee in Bloody April. I recommend 20 Squadon, my usual haunt then. Tell them Sgt. Bullethead said "hi" :).

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Aaah yes, 20 Squadron during Bloody April. Many a good fight in the trusty Fee with that lot. Sgt. Thomas Mottershead no doubt says "Hi" as well, (only NCO to be presented the VC in the entire War). Tell them Lou says "Hello" too.

 

.

[Javito1986 14]

You guys got any tips for a two-seater campaign? I just lost my first observer, a German Fleiger in the rear seat of a Roland on his third mission in April '16. Nieup 16s thrashed the whole flight, I didn't even see them until they were swooping down on us all vertical like. It was a bit of a slaughter and my bus hit the trees on fire not too long after, with me in the observer seat trying to tell the bloody pilot to fly straight so I could shoot the Nieup that was killing us. Blarg!

[Bullethead 12]

You guys got any tips for a two-seater campaign? I just lost my first observer, a German Fleiger in the rear seat of a Roland on his third mission in April '16. Nieup 16s thrashed the whole flight, I didn't even see them until they were swooping down on us all vertical like. It was a bit of a slaughter and my bus hit the trees on fire not too long after, with me in the observer seat trying to tell the bloody pilot to fly straight so I could shoot the Nieup that was killing us. Blarg!

 

Well, it depends on your plane. If you're in a Brisfit, 2-seat Strutter, or that single Roland fighter squadron, only fly in the pilot's seat and pretend you're in a fighter. Because the observer's body blocks your rear view, let him worry about that direction and you just concentrate on what's in front. If you're in a Fee fighter squadron, see the "Survival in the Air" guide on that plane. NEVER fly the Fee in a bomber squadron, and I don't recommend it as a fighter unless you hack it so your lot thinks they're "fighter_bomber" pilots and not "level_bomber" pilots. For anything else, we're talking bomber/recon flying.

 

As a bomber/recon creman, you have the choice of being a full- or part-time pilot. Part-time pilot means mostly observer, but you still have to take off, land, and drop bombs from the pilot's seat. In between these 3 operations, it's pretty much the same whichever seat you're in. The exceptions are the Quirk and single-seat Strutter, which have no rear guns, so you can't do anything from the observer's seat anyway. The difference here is that the Quirk has such pathetic performance that you should play by bomber/recon rules of engagement, whereas in the single-seat Strutter you can play fighter pilot after a fashion, provided you're man enough.

 

Bomber/recon rules of engagement are simple. As long as your flight stays in formation, it's relatively safe. All you have to worry about is bad luck with Archie (mostly not worth worrying about) and the initial rush of interceptors (VERY MUCH worth worrying about). AI fighter flights, even if it's MvR and his posse, are only a threat to 2-seater formations on their 1st pass. Once they make that pass, they just hang out behind you slightly out of gun range and follow you around until they get bored. Periodically, one of them might fake a diving side attack but that's just to lure you to break your formation. He'll never attack and won't come into your range, so just ignore such thing. The main problem is when they get bored. See, as long as they're following you, other enemy fighters will ignore you, but once they break off, you're subject to another initial attack by somebody else, which is where you take your main damage.

 

Note that I said "as long as you're in formation". ANY significant deviation from formation is enough to incite a feeding frenzy. IOW, the best approach is to fly along straight and level and hope you don't get hit too hard in the initial pass. If you turn more than to just sidestep a burst from above, your wingmen won't follow with any alacrity, so you'll suddenly be odd man out and thus the target for the whole enemy flight. Time to start a new career, unless you're in one of those 2-seaters that has half-way decent performance as a fighter and you're man enough to handle the odds as your flight sails off into the distance.

 

A corollary to the above is the bad luck of having an enemy flight follow you all the way home. At this point, it's inshallah, because your flight WILL break up for landing whether you want them to or not. Best thing in this case is to be the flight leader. Tha'ts because as long as you keep on straight and level, your wingmen will be the ones to break formation and have the sharks after them while you travel on to an alternate field many miles away.

 

Problem with being flight leader is, riding in the rear gunner seat is pretty boring. Most of the initial rush attacks will hit folks behind you and afterwards the enemy will be out of range of your trailing wingmen so you have no hope of hitting them from the front of the formation. But even if you choose to lead by rank, it's still pretty frustrating because you can't elevate your guns more than about 45^ in most cases, so can't shoot at diving fighters on their 1st pass anyway.

 

So, IMHO, if you want to fly a 2-seater career that's truly different from a scout career, I recommend flying a DFW (which can fly higher and faster than most contemporary enemy fighters, plus has a great bomb sight), or a Fee (which is still a scout but requires a totally different style). Otherwise, you're simply a hostage to fortune.

[Javito1986 14]

Ah well that explains it. I was flight leader of my Rolands and when the Nieups jumped on us I hit A and gave everyone attack orders. So the Roland C.IIIs broke formation and got ripped to shreds, me included. Bad move eh? :-p

[TaillyHo 2]

Excellent post, Bullethead.

 

This will be printed and filed alongside your seminal advice on choosing squadrons, craft and timeframes.

 

Thank you, Sir.