DukeIronHand 8 Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Got the above link from The Aerodrome. It is a series of photos posted by a (quite attractive!) female who states she is the great, great granddaughter of Lothar v. Richthofen. I know Lothar married after the war (by memory to a German actress named Fern Andora - I'm sure I spelled it wrong!) but I did not know the marriage produced children before he died in 1922. Anyway, you gotta click around a bit but a nice series of photos! Edit: Spelling Edited June 19, 2011 by DukeIronHand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted June 19, 2011 Your thread title is a bit irritating, Duke, as GAS (German Air Service) is an English shortage, but I'm glad I checked what it is about. A great find - thank you for posting! Some of those pictures, which were kept by the Richthofen family, I had never seen before. There is confirmation for you JFM - the family also says it's Roucourt in that picture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted June 19, 2011 Your thread title is a bit irritating, Duke, as GAS (German Air Service) is an English shortage, Well I am all about trying to be accurate. What would be the German abbreviation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Good question, Duke! They didn't have the obvious name like in WW2 - Deutsche Luftwaffe. As they were part of Deutsches Heer, the name must have been "Luftstreitkräfte des deutschen Heeres". But I honestly never read it like that anywhere. The commanding General was called "Kommandierender General der Luftstreitkräfte", so it may be they were just called "Luftstreitkräfte" (air forces). Perhaps one of our historians can shine a light on this question? Edited June 19, 2011 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shredward 12 Posted June 20, 2011 Good question, Duke! They didn't have the obvious name like in WW2 - Deutsche Luftwaffe. As they were part of Deutsches Heer, the name must have been "Luftstreitkräfte des deutschen Heeres". But I honestly never read it like that anywhere. The commanding General was called "Kommandierender General der Luftstreitkräfte", so it may be they were just called "Luftstreitkräfte" (air forces). Perhaps one of our historians can shine a light on this question? Off the top of my head, started out life as the Fliegertruppe. All the air arms (not home, so can't look up the names), but Flak, Luftschiffer, Intelligence, Meteorological service and the Fliegertruppe were amalgamated and reorganised as the Luftstreitkräfte on or about October 11 1916 Cheers, shredward Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted June 20, 2011 Luftstreitkräfte Sorry Olham - I'll never remember that spelling correctly and I am not not sure how to do umlat's here. Guess you'll have to keep being "gassy" (G.A.S.) in my posts. :yes: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasse Wind 46 Posted June 20, 2011 German Wikipedia has lots of information about Luftstreitkräfte. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftstreitkr%C3%A4fte_%28Deutsches_Kaiserreich%29 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted June 20, 2011 Duke, a way to write the Umlauts without having the very keys, is this: ä = ae ö = oe ü = ue You see, you just need to add an "e". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted June 20, 2011 Ach...ok...ok! I see I am not going to get away with gassy so I will slaughter the spelling of "Luftstreitkräfte" for the next 10 years...or until P4 comes out. Hmmm....maybe L.S.K. - course only the reader of this thread will know WTH I am talking about! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted June 20, 2011 . A nice lot of photos there Duke. Thanks for sharing the link. And it looks to me like you have the spelling of Die Deutschen Luftstreitkräfte sorted out just fine already. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JFM 18 Posted June 22, 2011 I admit that at first I was irritated because all those photos can be seen in books or online in the Fokker films or in publically accesible archives and it seemed as if she was trying to pass them off as if they've not been seen until scanned from some private family album. Reminded me of the bogus "new Pearl Harbor photos found in old camera" that were actually photos in publication for decades. However, going back through them, now it seems that she is just an excited enthusiast. Yes, Roucourt. I've already proven that location ten ways to sunday! Unbeknownst to me at the time, Lance Bronnenkant had also done so in his excellent Imperial German Eagles in World War I. Had I read his book prior to my various debates I would have just saved a lot of time and quoted from it! That Red Richthofen girl posted one of the damning photographic proofs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/58692169@N02/5401350841/in/photostream That shot shows the coal mine building at far left and the Roucourt church at right. Shows the hedge, trees and road, all of which is visible in photos taken from the other side of the field. Also shows Otto Brauneck, between LvR and Schaefer, and he didn't arrive at Jasta 11 until 20 April (IIRC); Jasta 11 moved to Roucourt a week before then. I plan on visiting Roucourt again this autumn and will try to line up the exact location of where this photo was taken, as closely as I can. BTW, I know "GAS" as "Gear Acquisition Syndrome," when musicians experience an overwhelming urge to buy new/more gear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) She is more than just an enthusiast, JFM - she really is a von Richthofen; a relative of MvR. Here are family photos: http://www.flickr.co...s/58692169@N02/ Edited June 22, 2011 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted June 22, 2011 JFM and Olham: 1) What is the Roucourt controversy that you two are alluding too? JFM: 2) I did work last night and it is now early but are you saying she is a fraud? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Olham, Did you look through the family photos? Is there a good picture of Ilse V. Richthofen - MvR/LvR sister? I have only seen one of her (the fairly well known family group photo) but I was wondering about a good close-up. Not to talk ill of the dead but that photo kind of makes her look like a Lothar but with long hair! For some reason hers is the only face in the photo that does not appear overly clear to me. After that historical opus called "Red Baron" from 2008 I have been curious what she looks like. JFM - do you have a photo of her? Edited June 22, 2011 by DukeIronHand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted June 22, 2011 Did you look through the family photos? Nope, but the link is there for you to have a go. The "Roucourt" controversy between JFM and me, as well as between JFM and Dan San-Abbott (rest in peace, Dan San) was a photo showing Jasta 11 at Roucourt airfield, as JFM had identified during a journey. But Dan-San had insisted, that this photo would show the field at La Brayelles (I think it was). The controversy between JFM and me was about the exact location of the field. It turned out, that I had misinterpreted a statement about that from a Jasta 12 member. JFM had definitely proved the correct location according to the old photo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted June 22, 2011 I think I vaguely recall this. Was it not about the well known photo showing Jasta 11 aircraft all lined up on the field? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted June 22, 2011 Yes, that's the pic, Duke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
