Gripens in Swiss Air Force

[JediMaster 451]

I was just reading a "lessons learned" piece in AW&ST about Gripens in Libya last night. Apparently NATO interopability with things like ATOs and radios and such was the big issue for them, along with Qatar and the UAE, the other 2 non-NATO participants.

As far as the plane itself, I got the impression that there were no real issues, that it neither was hampered nor distinguished itself in the sorties it did (something like 650).

 

So, bottom line was plane works fine, but Sweden needs to work on being part of a coalition and actually doing combat jointly.

[+ST0RM 145]

I was just reading a "lessons learned" piece in AW&ST about Gripens in Libya last night. Apparently NATO interopability with things like ATOs and radios and such was the big issue for them, along with Qatar and the UAE, the other 2 non-NATO participants.

 

Yes! From my standpoint, Comms was the largest limiting factor. We had the French running it, but the language barrier/accents plus the distances between transmitters caused a ton of lost comms. We'd try relaying for each other. Tanker to Tanker, or fighter to tanker, etc... Thanksfully we have 5 voice radios, plus SATCOM, so I would have to bypass the primary controller and go straight to our tanker planner with the updates. Things were happening at such a fast pace, that an ATO would have changed 3 times by the time we arrived on station.

 

The lack of A/R training for the non-NATO forces, was really apparent as well.

 

So, bottom line was plane works fine, but Sweden needs to work on being part of a coalition and actually doing combat jointly.

 

I agree that the Swedes need to work themselves into more NATO combat plans. They came in late, almost like an afterthought. Not getting political, because honestly I don't really know their policies.

 

-S

[JediMaster 451]

I thought I read this was their first combat action in many many decades. Maybe since WWII, maybe earlier, I forget.

[Derk 265]

I thought I read this was their first combat action in many many decades. Maybe since WWII, maybe earlier, I forget.

 

Real combat with J29's in A/G and recce in 1961-1963 in the Congo under UN supervision, but they didn't have to coördinate with others as they were the only jets available and FAC was probably done by Swedish ground troops. The Swedes did train together with NATO in excercises in Sweden however during the last couple of years.

[JediMaster 451]

Ok, so 50 years. Either way, there's no one still in service there that remembers!

[Derk 265]

Except maybe for AR the Swedes ar highly professional and very well trained !!!! OK , maybe no Red Flag and Maple Flag yet, but AFAIK sufficient flying hours, lots of airspace, lots of a/g ranges and in the mean time quite some excercises with DACT with NATO ..... (and of course they are flying around in good stuff....)

Edited December 8, 2011 by Derk

[JediMaster 451]

There's no question on their training if they are attacked on their own soil. However, as the US started learning during the 91 Gulf War, there's no substitute for actually doing it where things you never thought would be an issue turn into real problems.

It's not the "what do you do when you get outflanked" type of combat experience I'm referring to, it's more the "how do you resupply if bad weather sidelines an expected transport drop" type of experience.

 

Excercises are generally tailored to working on a particular area leadership feels needs work or emphasis, the "full up" ones that have everyone working together as if it was real are rare due to costs and the drain on active resources (ie you don't want to be vulnerable to an attack because your forces are all training on the other side of the country). Then you have all the extra wrinkles working with allies in a deployed location possibly thousands of miles from your supply depots.

 

If Sweden is serious about being part of that club, they'll have to invest in rectifying all the shortfalls they identified over Libya as well as do it more regularly. After all, one thing all militaries know is that just as you fix the problems to help you win the last war, you've got a whole new set of issues for the next.

[+ST0RM 145]

Except maybe for AR the Swedes ar highly professional and very well trained !!!! OK , maybe no Red Flag and Maple Flag yet, but AFAIK sufficient flying hours, lots of airspace, lots of a/g ranges and in the mean time quite some excercises with DACT with NATO ..... (and of course they are flying around in good stuff....)

 

I wasn't talking about their A/R ability. I was referring to the Middle East Air Forces. I missed out on the Gripens.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

On the flip side, Swede Gripens were at Red Flag in 2008.

[ZeroFilth 3]

I wasn't talking about their A/R ability. I was referring to the Middle East Air Forces. I missed out on the Gripens.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

On the flip side, Swede Gripens were at Red Flag in 2008.

 

Oh that Red Flag is one to remember, Brazilian F-5EM's were at it too, calsign Rocket.

[Derk 265]

I wasn't talking about their A/R ability. I was referring to the Middle East Air Forces. I missed out on the Gripens.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

On the flip side, Swede Gripens were at Red Flag in 2008.

 

 

[+ravenclaw_007 7,633]

first , yes the swiss choose the gripen but the version they choose is not existing except on the drawing board and i dont know if this is asmart decision

second , there could be still some problem´s for this deal because in swiss referendum´s are normal and in the public and media this deal is not very welcome and criticism on a paper plane deal is rising

some even say why to make such a competition if only the cheapest offer is counting and not the capability of the fighter