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Beastie boy

Some frustrating issues

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Hi All,



I've just re-installed OFF as I have a lot of free time at the moment as I'm recovering from a long hospital stay. So I thought it would be good to try OFF again.


Installation and pathcing was fine and got a campaign going. Then the troubles started.


1) it seemed every aircraft I came up against could out climb and out trun mine. it hought it odd that an FE2B could climb and fly at about 150 mph whem my Halberstadt could only just hit 90 in a slight dive. So it was impossible to catch up. Then miraculously at about 190 feet (managed to cut a turn) or so acording to the label it slowed down until I got to about 120 feet then it was like the thing put on an afterburner and raced off back to 1000 feet or so. I also tried QC with a halby against a DH2 and got him but he could out turn and out climb me. So I tried it in a DH2 against a Halby and quel suprise he could out turn and out climb me.


2) this FE2B when I got into range, he seemed to be able to shoot though it's prop and fuselage. I was about 20 feet below and directly to the rear at about 12 feet and was made into swiss cheese. Also i was hitting him back in the engine / prop area, bits were flying off but no damage.


3) My wingman shoots me down. Had a scramble mission, great, get in the air target a plane and tell the flight to attack. Target another and tell wingman to attack. Then I get engaged but Gymer. Great after 15 mins of dueling ( he managed to always stay above me so i had to fly almost on a stall to get abywhere near aiming at him) and I finally get him to smoke and then BAM!!!! Red damage signs everywhere. On checking the replay and looking back at the time, My wingman thought it would be good to help out and shoot through me at my target, promptly shooting me out of the sky. I replayed the mission 3 times and the bugger did it every time even if i told him to rejoin.


So after reading through the forums I decided to put on the damage mod and the Weight mods.


So new pilot new campaign. A patrol mission YAY. So I'm the leader and take off. Then my wingmen take off well they taxi really fast and then all crash like lemmings. Now I've heard this may happen with the weight mod but why? They are adjusted to the same weight as I am and I can take off and climb just fine so it can't be a weight issue. So now I'm on my own, I manage to catch a flight of FE2B's which incidently still seem to out run my Halby regularly, they still seem to get up to 150 mph whilst climbing, but randomly slow down. Anyway I was in my patrol Zone and when i turn and chase them I get failed goals come up and mission failed. What the ? I'm in my patrol zone doing what i was suposed to do, anyway I get 2 of the blighters and head for home after loosing my engine to blind spot fire again, Sigh. So I glide back to my side of the lines and land (not bad for 20 miles from 7000 feet :good: ), deadstick. The landing goes well no breaking sounds I slow down and the mission ends. When I get to the debrief it says I crashed and destroyed my aircraft, and I get no claim form.


So I guess my question is what the hell can I do. Either I get every plane out turn / climb / perform my own, or I end up with no wing men and so can't put in any claims. This makes it pointless to invest any time in OFF at the moment. Also I have all the AI gun settings on easy and still they get hardly any spread on thier guns and can hti you at 500+ feet and take you down with about 20 rounds, where as I can fly 50 feet up their tails put 500 roiunds into them and get NO!!! damage what's so ever, is it me? do I have a duff install or what? Any help would be appreciated, I've been waitng for months to get home and play OFF again and now this. also I have HITR and applied all the patches as per the install guide, and the mods have been applied with JS mod enabler in the right order.




Thanks BB

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Hi BB.


The only AI plane I know SO FAR to crash on takeoff due to the Empty Weight Mod is the Halberstadt DII and then it's not the planes in the flight YOU lead which crash, but other AI-flown planes (usually, the ones led by an AI flight leader).


HPW has released a mod for the Halb specifically, to fix this takeoff crash problem- get it here.


This mod reduces the AI Halb's extra weight quite a bit. Even with this concession, they only just clear any trees at the end of the field, so there seems to be an underlying issue which inhibits AI takeoff, so they can't takeoff cleanly past obstacles, with the same weight as your plane.


A similar mod can be made for any other AI-led planes which also crash on takeoff; so far no others have been reported, tho if it happens, the lower-powered planes would be the main suspects, like the Eindekker, Pup and yes, the FE2b that's been giving you all the trouble. Isn't it weird, how the AI can still do aircombat quite well with the extra weight, but takoff is more heavily affected for some planes. The 1917-era planes I mostly fly don't seem to have serious any takeoff problems, at least none they didn't have before.


If you see any other types of planes (apart from the Halbs) doing the 'Lemming Conga-line Crash', let us know, and we can cut back on their weight for better takeoffs, tho that will unfortunately restore some of their 'unfair advantage'.


Re AI 2-seaters firing thu parts of their own structure, yes this happens. I think this is because in CFS3, the bomber turrets didn't simulate any of the cut-off mechanisms designed to stop gunners chewing off bits of their own aircraft; instead, I THINK CFS3 (and with that, OFF) gets over this by having a 'minimum range', below which distance bullets are 'ghosts' and can pass through nearby bits of the gunner's plane. Stock, from what I can see, OFF tried to limit this by quite severely limiting the gunner's arc of fire for each plane, so as to keep most (but not all) of the plane's structure out of the gunner's line of fire. This means that wide arcs in other directions that gunners SHOULD be able to fire into, they can't, which isn't realistic either and is especially tough, if you like flying 2-seaters, as it somewhat cripples your gunner. I made an 'ArcMod' for this to restore wider fields of fire, which makes the original 'ghost round' problem worse of course but I think this is the lesser of two evils and even when flying scouts, it means I can still get into a blind spot - I just have to be even more careful, especially if attacking two or more 2-seaters in formation who know I'm there, which is on my 'not recommended' list, even McCudden had big probs with that.


I suggest you set rear gun accuracy to the lowest setting in OFF Workshop, even if already using HPW's rear gun mod as well, which offers a reduced set of settings for rear gun accuracy.


Re the other issues, I feel your pain. AI wingies can be more trouble than they're worth; I don't think one has shot me yet but at best they seem very slow to follow attack orders especially, at worst they hare off into the proverbial Wide Blue Yonder, sometimes never seen again on that mission. Not to mention if I'm going down with a dud engine they refuse to 'Split'. As for their formation-keeping, well the less said, the better; the Red Arrows, they ain't.


It's not unusual for me to get no claim form offered for a plane I'm SURE I was the one to bring down and am quite often told my plane is destroyed after making a perfectly good forced landing (I think the Jasta's supply officer prefers to indent for new planes than put the ground crew to patching up old ones).


Re gun accuracy, if you have already used OFF Workshop AND HPW's front & rear gun mods (remembering the latter need a separate JSGME install, in a different folder, as per their readme) the other thing to do is increase your OWN gun effectiveness in OFF Workshop to 'Strong' or even 'Strongest'. Yes reducing global accuracy will reduce your AI wingmen's accuracy too but hey, who do you care about most? Arguably, making your OWN guns stronger just restores some of the balance, compared to AI who often seem to find it hard to hit anything except the you player, whom they seem to hit with uncanny accuracy from the most fleeting opportunity.


Oh yes and HPW's Ultimate DM should help your plane take more punishment before you give up the ghost (tho it also does this for the AI, another reason to set your own guns to a stronger setting, pay no attention to anyone who claims it's cheating or 'too easy' :grin: ).


I feel free to ignore the 'game-y' mission goals and patrol as I see fit (or chase Archie puffs as I see fit). This seems to me reasonably realistic. It may or may not harm my promotion prospects (I like to start with at least one pip anyway so don't care if it does) and it certainly doesn't affect my getting medals or anything else that matters much. So I pretty much ignore any of that 'mission failed' stuff, exactly as I do in First Eagles campaigns, where no less than the game developer TK himself has confirmed that's the best thing to do.

Edited by 33LIMA

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Make sure you install all the updates. AI is variable per craft, per squadron quality.


A Poor squadron raring is because it's full of poor or novice fliers.


Make sure you fly via OFF Manager and not directly run CFS3.exe or AI will perform worse.


If you have HITR try the alternative AI settings.


The current release of OFF has many excellent areas and good AI generally, but choose an elite squadron if you want super fliers - not a poor one.


The next version of OFF will also be tremendously improved in many areas including many mentioned.

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