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rjw

Another Identification puzzle for you.

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For you experts, this shouldn't take long. I on the other hand have far less knowledge in this area and I found this one interesting.

 

Can you identify it?

 

post-52329-0-02111800-1361830380.jpg

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I'll have to look a little farther, but at first glance, it says "Zeppelin-Staaken' to me.

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C.I? I'm showing it as a C.II, but definitely an AGO (Aerowerke Gustav Otto) Of course, the labeling on the Yahoo Image search may not be the most accurate.

AGO C.jpg

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You gentlemen are on the mark!!

 

The AGO C.I was a German reconnaissance biplane of World War I of pod-and-boom configuration. The C.1 was designd by A. Haefeli and manufactured by AGO Flugzeugwerke. The AGO C.I entered service in 1915. The design is notable in the fact that it is one of the few pusher aircraft designs coming from Germany. The central nacelle contained the cockpit and pusher configuration powerplant. The twin booms carried the tail and the four-wheeled landing gear. The observer sat at the nose and was armed with a single 7.92 mm Parabellum machine gun. It was produced in both two bay and three bay versions. A single example was fitted with floats for coastal patrol duties for the German Navy (designation C.I-W).

Type: Reconnaissance

Manufacturer: Aerowerke Gustav Otto Flugzeugwerke

Designed by: A. Haefeli

Country: Germany

Entered Service: 1915

Primary User: Germany

Number Built: Not Available

Wingspan: 47 ft 7 in (14.5 m)

Wing area: 430 ft² (40 m²)

Length: 32 ft 3½ in (9.84 m)

Height: 10 ft 5 in (3.175 m)

Empty Weight: 3,000 lb (1,360 kg)

Loaded Weight: 4,290 lb (1,946 kg)

Maximum Takeoff Weight: 4,290lbs (1,946kg)

Powerplant:

1 × Mercedes D.IV, 6-cylinder, liquid cooled inline, 217 hp (162 kW)

Or:

1 × Benz Bz IV, 6-cylinder, liquid cooled inline, 220 hp (164 kW)

Maximum speed: 90 mph (145 km/h)

Service ceiling: 14,800 ft (4,500 m)

Crew: two, pilot and observer

Armament: 1 × 0.312 in (7.92 mm) Parabellum MG14 machine gun

 

 

Design of the C.II was based on the AGO C.I design prior and given an uprated engine. The aircraft was managed by a crew of two consisting of a pilot and machine gunner/observer. Armament was limited to a single Parabellum machine gun for self-defense and managed by the gunner/observer in the front cockpit with the pilot to his rear. The most distinct feature of the AGO C.II was in that the powerplant was set at the rear of the fuselage nacelle in a "pusher" type arrangement (the engine at the rear of the fuselage "pushing" the aircraft) as opposed to the more traditional "puller" arrangement (the engine at the front of the fuselage "pulling" the aircraft) common elsewhere. Furthermore, the C.II was designed with twin tail booms, a rather novel design concept feature during a time when most military aircraft were settling on a single boom fuselage arrangement. Each boom o the C.II straddled the fuselage nacelle and was connected to the aircraft between the upper and lower wing assemblies at their front end and by a horizontal stabilizer at their rear (the twin-boom arrangement would later resurface in World War 2 aircraft designs such as the Lockheed P-38 Lightning and Northrop P-61 Black Widow some twenty-five years later). The wings were of a conventional biplane arrangement consisting of an upper and lower assembly attached through parallel struts and applicable cabling. The undercarriage was fixed in place and showcased four wheels supported by a network of struts under the fuselage and lower wing assembly.

 

Performance for the C.II was rated above average for the time and maneuverability was deemed good. The maximum listed speed for the C.II was 86 miles per hour, made possible by a single 217 horsepower Mercedes D.VI 6-cylinder, liquid-cooled, inline engine. Range proved a respectable quality of the design at 360 miles. The C.II performed admirably well from 1915 on and was eventually replaced by more conventional and modern types before the end of the war.

 

A pair of C.IIs were converted for maritime service with the Imperial German Navy by having floats installed. These aircraft were operated as coastal patrol defenders during the war and received the designation of C.II-W to indicate their modified form and distinct role.

 

Total production of AGO C.IIs totaled 15 examples

Edited by rjw

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That is an attractive early-war biplane! I would love to see that in the skies in WOFF 2.0! :blum:

Edited by Herr Prop-Wasche

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I don't know about those blurry art photos, but the plane in the first post is AGO C.I 96/15, from the second production series, C.94-105/15, ordered April 1915.

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I don't know about those blurry art photos, but the plane in the first post is AGO C.I 96/15, from the second production series, C.94-105/15, ordered April 1915.

 

You could be right JFM but I don't think it is possible to discern the numbers on the rudder of the AGO photo I submitted. Good speculation though and possible.

The black band on the boom could be useful in identification if we could determine what it meant.

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It's not speculation, there are several photos of this machine that have been published. I'll go through my archives and see if I have a better shot.

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It's not speculation, there are several photos of this machine that have been published. I'll go through my archives and see if I have a better shot.

 

Ah, then if you have other photos it would be nice to see them as they may provide other angles of view which would be nice. I was wondering how you came up with the serials as I couldn't decipher them from the photo I submitted!

 

Here is some futher info I have extracted from the web:

 

AGO C.II Reconnaissance Aircraft (1915)

 

The AGO C.II only served the German air force for about one year before being replaced.

The AGO C.II was the product of the Aerowerke Gustav Otto (abbreviated as "AGO") concern and is considered by some as one of the best of the early reconnaissance aircraft of World War 1 despite having served for only a short time in the conflict. The C.II fulfilled the reconnaissance role capably and incorporated several design features that would have appeared rather conceptual or revolutionary for the period. The aircraft would eventually give way to the changing technological requirements of war and be superseded by more capable types within time.

 

Design of the C.II was based on the AGO C.I design prior and given an uprated engine. The aircraft was managed by a crew of two consisting of a pilot and machine gunner/observer. Armament was limited to a single Parabellum machine gun for self-defense and managed by the gunner/observer in the front cockpit with the pilot to his rear. The most distinct feature of the AGO C.II was in that the powerplant was set at the rear of the fuselage nacelle in a "pusher" type arrangement (the engine at the rear of the fuselage "pushing" the aircraft) as opposed to the more traditional "puller" arrangement (the engine at the front of the fuselage "pulling" the aircraft) common elsewhere. Furthermore, the C.II was designed with twin tail booms, a rather novel design concept feature during a time when most military aircraft were settling on a single boom fuselage arrangement. Each boom o the C.II straddled the fuselage nacelle and was connected to the aircraft between the upper and lower wing assemblies at their front end and by a horizontal stabilizer at their rear (the twin-boom arrangement would later resurface in World War 2 aircraft designs such as the Lockheed P-38 Lightning and Northrop P-61 Black Widow some twenty-five years later). The wings were of a conventional biplane arrangement consisting of an upper and lower assembly attached through parallel struts and applicable cabling. The undercarriage was fixed in place and showcased four wheels supported by a network of struts under the fuselage and lower wing assembly.

 

Performance for the C.II was rated above average for the time and maneuverability was deemed good. The maximum listed speed for the C.II was 86 miles per hour, made possible by a single 217 horsepower Mercedes D.VI 6-cylinder, liquid-cooled, inline engine. Range proved a respectable quality of the design at 360 miles. The C.II performed admirably well from 1915 on and was eventually replaced by more conventional and modern types before the end of the war.

 

A pair of C.IIs were converted for maritime service with the Imperial German Navy by having floats installed. These aircraft were operated as coastal patrol defenders during the war and received the designation of C.II-W to indicate their modified form and distinct role.

 

Total production of AGO C.IIs totaled 15 examples.

Specifications for the

AGO C.II

Reconnaissance Aircraft

Country of Origin: Imperial Germany

Manufacturer: Aerowerke Gustav Otto (AGO) - Germany

Initial Year of Service: 1915

Production: 15

Focus Model: AGO C.II

Crew: 2

Length: 32.28ft (9.84m)

Width: 47.57ft (14.50m)

Height: 10.40ft (3.17m)

Weight (Empty): 2,998lbs (1,360kg)

Weight (MTOW): 4,290lbs (1,946kg)

Powerplant: 1 x Mercedes D.IV 6-cylinder liquid-cooled inline engine generating 217 horsepower.

Maximum Speed: 80mph (128kmh; 69kts)

Maximum Range: 360miles (580km)

Service Ceiling: 14,764ft (4,500m; 2.8miles)

Rate-of-Climb: 0 feet per minute (0m/min)

Hardpoints: 0

Armament Suite:

OPTIONAL:

1 x 7.92 Parabellum machine gun in forward cockpit

Variants:

C.II - Base Model Designation

C.II-W - Floatplane derivative; two examples were operated by the German Imperial Navy for a time.

Edited by rjw

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Guys, don't argue with JFM about aircraft, he's doing historical research since quite some time.

I too found it under "C.I" at "Rosebud's". But the link lines at "Rosebud's" say someting different

than the JPEG-names do - quite confusing. However, there seem to be a two-seater (C.I ?)

and a single seat craft (C.II ?) - here are the pics.

 

AGO_C1.jpg

 

AGO_C2.jpg

 

PS: these aircraft don't belong into WOFF - even if it would be fun - cause they played no role in the war.

 

.

Edited by Olham

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Guys, don't argue with JFM about aircraft, he's doing historical research since quite some time.

I too found it under "C.I" at "Rosebud's". But the link lines at "Rosebud's" say someting different

than the JPEG-names do - quite confusing. However, there seem to be a two-seater (C.I ?)

and a single seat craft (C.II ?) - here are the pics.

 

 

PS: these aircraft don't belong into WOFF - even if it would be fun - cause they played no role in the war.

 

.

 

OLham;

 

I hope I didn't give the impression of argueing. That was not intended. Just soliciting clarification!

 

Here are some links to the Aerodrome that imply these aircraft saw active service and therefore could be included in WOFF if the devs wanted to add them

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/36312-ago-c-i-c-ii.html#post385147

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/36312-ago-c-i-c-ii.html#post385647

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/36312-ago-c-i-c-ii.html#post385667.

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No problem, Robert, I don't want to argue either.

But there are so many other aircraft missing yet, which were used widely in WW1 -

- Hasse Wind would storm this thread shouting "French two-seaters!", and he'd

be right - that any such demand for more rare planes might delay the release

of WOFF to "Sankt Nimmerleinstag" as we say in German (until the cows come home).

And I guess we both wouldn't want that?

:grin:

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No problem, Robert, I don't want to argue either.

But there are so many other aircraft missing yet, which were used widely in WW1 -

- Hasse Wind would storm this thread shouting "French two-seaters!", and he'd

be right - that any such demand for more rare planes might delay the release

of WOFF to "Sankt Nimmerleinstag" as we say in German (until the cows come home).

And I guess we both wouldn't want that?

:grin:

 

Agreed!!!

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Have to say, it's a very modern looking Design!... Gotta hand it to the German's..they have good design down to a fine art!!!!

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:blush:

 

Well, I know some fine British designs too.

The Spitfire, the Mosquito and the Hawker Typhoon and Tempest,

the Rolls Royce Merlin and Griffon engines,

the Folland Gnat and the Hawker Harrier VTOL jets;

the Triumph and Norton motorcycle classics,

the Jaguar and the Aston Martin - and the Cobra,

which became famous as the Shelby Cobra from America,

but was originally an English design too.

 

And have you ever tasted scones with cool clotted cream and raspberry jam?

Hmmmmmmm....

 

(Not to speak of the fine ales, beer and stouts - oh, the memories! ...)

Edited by Olham
  • Like 1

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Yes, the AGO saw action in the war. The British first thought it was twin-engined. It was a damn site better and more useful than a Fokker EV/DVIII, for instance. I'd love to see it in a sim. Love to see it in either of the two big WW1 sims. Seems a little better suited for OBD's, since they appear more focused on historical representation. As long as there are two different sims, as a fan it'd be nice if each focused on aspects/planes not found in the other. For those of us who fly both, anyway.

 

But, regarding the AGO C.I, it was always a two-seater, hence its "C" designation. According to Grosz, this was Germany's first armed recon airplane to received a C-class designation. Olham, that first photo you posted is the prototype. The second is C.I 371/15. I'll attach some more photos below. The shot of LF 181 was caption in Grosz's book as "transferred to the Fliegertruppe to the navy in 1915. The original army numbers on the tail fin have been erased and replaced by the designation LF 181 (LF = Landflugzeug)." He identifies the airfield as Niewmunster, Belgium, but the buildings in the background--although similar--are slightly different than Niewmunster. However, I matched them (down to slat-by-slat comparison) 100% to those in the famous photos of Manfred von Richthofen climbing into the Albatros C.IX. Furthermore, I've matched both of these photos with several other photos and WW1 German airfield layout maps and determined 100% that this location is actually Hannover, Germany. In one of the photos, the version on floats is the C.Iw. And, these planes were not blue, as shown in one of the art depictions above but, as described by one of its pilots, "a light yellowish-brown," which has been determined to mean clear-doped fabric with the metal parts and wooden booms painted to match, although the footsteps appear to be unpainted metal.

 

(Edited to add four photos. BTW, I'm having no luck with a good shot of 96/15. I've asked a few friends and they don't have shots, either, but I have a few more to ask.)

 

aceWUBFL.jpg

 

 

adoy20km.jpg

 

adfLCAK3.jpg

 

 

adzg2ymL.jpg

Edited by JFM

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JFM;

 

Thanks for your voluminous knowledge. It amazes me! I'm just scratching the surface in comparison! Can you shed any light on the handling characteristics. I hear it was not great but then I know so very little about the aircraft. Only what I have obtained online.

 

Great photos you posted, and thanks!

 

Best Regards;

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I'm no expert on this plane and have a few references. I'll quote Peter Grosz's information: "When it arrived at combat units, the Ago C.I became highly regarded for its tractable flight characteristics and quickly won the confidence of airmen who flew this fine aircraft. The Ago C.I lasted at the Front for almost two years--the maximum number of 23 [at the front] was recorded on 30 June 1916." Later, "The type was easy to land and take-off, an important consideration on unprepared airfields. The flight controls were satisfactory but the climb rate, and the speed were considered somewhat slow especially for 'over the lines operations.'" Also, "There was no rear defence, but in the opinion of those who flew the Ago C.I, the engine provided a 'suitable bullet catcher.' Nevertheless as the tempo of air war escalated the lack of rear armament caused the Fliegertruppe to remove the type from combat in late 1916. They were assigned to training units."

 

As far as photos, my pleasure. We're all subjected to such crappy and/or small copies on the internet that if I can post a nice shot now and then, I will. BTW, notice in that closeup of the AGO's nose that the front gear has been removed to reduce drag and weight. Plus, they could carry more bombs. Note the external bomb racks and the two vertical bomb guides to prevent bombs (carried internally and) dropped by the pilot from hitting the gear. Also, the early C.Is had radiators on the side of the fuselage, and the interplane struts "wrapped around" the booms rather than being faired inside them, as on later versions. You can see these features on the prototype photo Olham posted above.

 

Also, in that shot of 371/15, see that pipe that runs forward just underneath the two cockpits? Grosz wrote that was part of a "hot water system" devised to provide warmth for the crew by carrying hot water from the engine to the front of the fuselage, but it's not known (at least as of that publications' date [1999], and I don't know, either] how the heat was distributed. The placard underneath read "Heizrohr beim Besteigen nich anfassen," translated as "do not touch heating pipe while climbing aboard." They all didn't have such external pipes on the port side but I've yet to determine which production batches did, which didn't, etc.

 

{Edited for typos and a repeated word. If I missed others, so be it!}

Edited by JFM

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The Ago C.I lasted at the Front for almost two years--the maximum number of 23 [at the front] was recorded on 30 June 1916.

 

I stand corrected - seems it saw more of the war than many more prominent fighters.

Thank you for all the detail and the great big photos, Jim!

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I would not think that any historian should mind being 'argued with'. Facts need constant practice and there's always the possibility of a non-historian turning up new stuff.

 

BTW, I claim neither to be historian nor non-historian... 'interested amateur' would do for me.

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The wind of a good argument blows the dust off the facts revealing the underlying truth.

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I agree, Hauksbee. But even then that's not good enough for some people!

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I agree, Hauksbee. But even then that's not good enough for some people!

There it is. The 'truth' is an iffy business.

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