The Sale of the Century

[MigBuster 2,861]

1979 vid on the F-16/F-17/Viggen/Mirage F-1 sales proposals to Europe

 

Entertaining just to see them trying to get round the "Not To Exceed price" - and overall the makers were very skeptical of the F-16

 

 

Edited April 3, 2013 by MigBuster

[JediMaster 451]

Because every time this happens, everyone seems to think it will be a big disaster. It's happening again with the F-35. People have NO memory. A plane has a troubled gestation, all the doomsayers come out of the woodwork to say how bad it's going to be compared to the previous generation. Then the plane gets fixed, has a long and illustrious career...and it's successor has a troubled gestation and the doomsayers pop up again.

[+Brain32 265]

I'll try to watch it with open mind though I don't think it can be comparable with the money pit that is F-35 program...

[JediMaster 451]

Disregard all the talk about "total life costs" because it's just a bunch of irrelevant speculation. No one knows until you're actually using it how much it will cost, and no one knows how many years you'll actually use it for either. It's designed to be sensationalist.

 

There's no doubt this program is flawed, but it's not the plane, it's the management. It's too late to fix it, all that can be done is to push through and actually get an ROI for all the billions and years spent. Or, you're cancelling it and getting zero for that.

 

I can guarantee two things: one, you can't NOT replace the Hornet, F-16, Harrier, and all the rest. They're old, and any brand new program will push their retirement out another 20 years easy. The gov't made the stupid decision to put all its eggs in one basket, and when the inevitable happened it left them with no option.

Two, this will happen again. Any replacement will face the exact same problems. It will go over budget because there have been no advances in PEOPLE technology. People guess low. They outright lie about what things will cost to win a bid. They assume "this time will be different" when it won't be.

 

In short, the F-35 is almost fixed and will be a great plane once these issues are worked through. To give up on it now just because idiots were in charge and created the program as a money hole does nothing to invalidate the tech. The calls to "skip" and move on to its successor are shortsighted because as I said it will all just happen again.

[PraetorH 166]

Because every time this happens, everyone seems to think it will be a big disaster. It's happening again with the F-35. People have NO memory.

 

First, the media coverage is done by people who know nothing about the military and usually disdain it (in the US much less than in Europe, still...). There is a nice 1977 article written for Germany's prime news magazine Der Spiegel about the Leopard 2. In this article the author claims the Leo2 is an overpriced, half-baked and almost useless tank - just slightly better than the T-72, if better at all.

 

Second, however, people did have a memory when they produced that documentary: the F-16/F-1/etc. were planned to be the successor of the F-104G in most countries! With all the promises of what the Starfighter was supposed to do (when it only excelled in nuc-strike and intercept), with all the cost explosions, and of course with all the bribery involved - skepticism towards the next sale of the century was well deserved, since the last sale of the century had less than stellar results.

[Toryu 156]

Although you're right, PH, there's stil one thing very different about the F-104G and the second deal.

The F-16 was an "as-is project" - with no fancy extra-stuff there. The other two contenders were kind of similar, with more or less customization-options (particularily with the F.1).

 

All the mentioned fighters (F.1/ F-16 and Viggen) were finished products.

The really interesting aircraft here was the M53-engined F.1, which is basicly a normal F.1 with 50% more thrust.

[Sheriff001 397]

What I found strange (and a little appalling) was the Dutch shop steward actually negotiating with GD, Dassault, Saab, and Northrop. I could understand him discussing fighter procurement with Fokker management, but not talking directly with the prospective prime contractors.

 

MiGBuster, thanks for the link. In return, here are two stories from the Australian current affairs program, Four Corners, about the F-35 and the F/A-18F

 

Reach For The Sky (F-35): http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/02/18/3690317.htm

 

Flying Blind (F/A-18F): http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2007/s2070484.htm