rudder problem

[hood 2]

Whilst waiting for my WOFF DVD to arrive I shouted myself a set of Saitek Pro Flight Combat pedals.They are beautiful and work perfectly in FSX.However in OFF I find the rudder works both with the pedals and my Thrustmaster T 16000 joystick twist function.This leads to some quite embarrassing moments in flight. especially in combat, where I still involuntarily sometimes twist the  joystick.Can anybody tell me how to disable the rudder function on the T16000?.

FSX seems to have done it automatically.

Also, the toe brakes do weird things in OFF.An accidental touch on the left one sends the plane into a violent bank to the right, and a touch on the right toe brake results in a sudden near vertical climb.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers all .

[Burning Beard 14]

That was a known problem with the Saitek pedals, and there are instructions somewhere to fix those. I do not have WOFF yet, however I think what you did in OFF was to go to the controller commands (the CFS3 pull down menu) select your devise and assign/unassign it there. Remember to save you choices as something (Mine is "Mine").

 

Beard

[hood 2]

Many thanks Burning Beard but still no joy.

[Tamper 9]

Wow...not just me losing my mind...

 

I also got Saitek rudder pedals just befor getting WOFF, and I also have the problems you describe - only, oddly enough, it's inverted:  The left toe brake causes the right aileron to flip down, sending me in a left-down spiral; the right toe brake causes the elevator to flip down, causing me to nose-dive.  I've creamed many a good pilot before I finally figured this out, and it's all I can do even knowing about it to control it.  Needless to say this is sucking all my enjoyment out of WOFF...

 

I hope there's some kind of fix somewhere.  The obvious choice is to unbind/reassign in teh Workshop, but that doesn't seem to work...I get "Incorrect Joystick" when trying to assign after unbinding.

 

Any input welcome!

[hood 2]

Yes Tamper.It is a real bummer.In desperation I am going to make a couple of wooden wedges to jam under the toe brokes to put them out of operation.

[HumanDrone 4]

Thanks for the warning, hood!  I've got these (they're great elsewhere), so I'll be on the lookout when I install, and I'll post if I find anything!

 

Tom

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Gents, you need only to go into your Saitek profiler and set the dead zone on the toe brakes as wide as possible.  That's what I did when I got the same pedals several years ago and it has worked just fine that way for me.

 

Another trick to using these is to wear socks when flying and rest your heels on the plates under the pedals.  Gives you much firmer control as you slide your feet fore and aft that way than with them fully planted on the pedals themselves.

 

.

Edited December 14, 2013 by RAF_Louvert

[Olham 164]

Another trick to using these is to wear socks when flying and rest your heels on the plates under the pedals. 

Gives you much firmer control as you slide your feet fore and aft that way than with them fully planted on the pedals themselves.

I also wear two pairs of wollen socks for flying (Germany is cold this time of year).

But I rest my feet fully on the pedals.

The socks allow me to feel everything just so much more sensitively than shoes would.

Working fine for me.

 

Like every new control, you need to allow some time to get used to it's handling.

Remember when you first used a joystick...

[Creaghorn 10]

often the brakes on pedals have some default assignment. you just have to delete the toebrake assignments and all is well.

[Tamper 9]

Lou, as always your input is appreciated, of course.

 

Tell me, this tool you mention, is it capable of associating programming per app?  The pedals work fine elsewhere and I don't want to alter something globally to work with one game - it's only WOFF that's a problem.  And, from the looks of it, I'm not the only one with this issue.  (FWIW I don't use such tools as a rule, but I did d/l this and try it - it's not clear, but it doesn't appear to associate profiles with different apps).

 

Olham, of course, I appreciate your thoughts as well.  Wearing socks (which I have been, BTW) and other such things (wooden blocks??!!  *lol*) while they are certainly clever and inventive...well, a. none of this should be necessary to make a peripheral work, and b. I am reminded it *does* actually work elsewhere without the need for such "kludges".

 

Truly sorry, gents, to seem rude, but I am admittedly more than just a little put out by this...

 

Regards,

[Tamper 9]

Creaghorn, absolutely, which I understand quite well.  I've no problem at all using a (properly-functioning) interface to assign axes, buttons, etc.  Done it for years with all the various sims, no problem.  For example, I had zoom set up on a joystick button for OFF, and TrackIR recenter (F12) on another button.  So I'm familiar with the concept and execution.

 

The problem is that the WOFF interface (and/or WOFF itself; I noticed CFS3 has the exact issues FWIW) doesn't recognize (for lack of a better word) my joystick and pedals properly.  While the WOFF interface allows me to 'unbind' these assignments, it doesn't appear to save my changes for some reason.  Moreover, the real problem is I can't follow the unbinding with actually programming the axes.  The little window says "Incorrect joystick" no matter which I try to use.

 

I had uninstalled OFF in anticipation of WOFF prior to getting my pedals not long ago.  So, I 've never used them with OFF or CFS3.  But it seems to me, now that I'm seeing this, these are problems endemic to CFS3 (and, by extension, OFF/WOFF).

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Lou, as always your input is appreciated, of course.

 

Tell me, this tool you mention, is it capable of associating programming per app?  The pedals work fine elsewhere and I don't want to alter something globally to work with one game - it's only WOFF that's a problem.  And, from the looks of it, I'm not the only one with this issue.  (FWIW I don't use such tools as a rule, but I did d/l this and try it - it's not clear, but it doesn't appear to associate profiles with different apps).

 

Olham, of course, I appreciate your thoughts as well.  Wearing socks (which I have been, BTW) and other such things (wooden blocks??!!  *lol*) while they are certainly clever and inventive...well, a. none of this should be necessary to make a peripheral work, and b. I am reminded it *does* actually work elsewhere without the need for such "kludges".

 

Truly sorry, gents, to seem rude, but I am admittedly more than just a little put out by this...

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Tamper, I use the Mad Catz Saitek Profiler and it works very, very well.  You can create specific profiles for your pedals and JS for each sim, and you can quickly turn them on and off as needed.  Here is the link to the Mad Catz / Saitek website:

 

http://pcperipherals.saitek.com/down/downloads.php

 

Enjoy!

 

Lou

 

.

Edited December 14, 2013 by RAF_Louvert
too much coffee

[Burning Beard 14]

I found this when I did a search.

 

Pause > drop down menu > Controls > then select the drop down menu under Saitek x-52 FCS joystick. That gives you the Saitek rudder pedals control system.

 

Then, to make it easier, select the "control surfaces" drop down menu...that limits the number of choices available. You'll see there's a choice "x axis", a "y axis", and (I think) "rudder axis". You delete the x axis and the y axis and then save that profile as "Mine" and voila! No toe brake function. (BTW you don't need toe brakes in this sim. There are no brakes on WW1 aircraft. You have to cut your engine off).

 

I think this is what I did and it worked fine.

 

Beard

[Tamper 9]

Lou, thanks - but I think I wasn't clear.  That is the tool I did d/l and tried and honestly wasn't really impressed with.  What you're describing is that I have to switch profiles depending on the game I play.  What I meant is something more akin to the Nvidia control panel, wherein each "profile" is associated with an app - meaning that all one has to do is start the app, and the profile for that app recognizes the app has been started, and loads on it's own.  I'm not interested in having to remember to do this, start that, etc...just to play the game (and, if we look at the Nvidia CP example I cited, it really shouldn't be necessary).

 

Plus, having to load/switch profiles indicates there's something (else) that has to be loaded and/or running on my machine - which I don't care for.  Windows by itself recognizes both controllers (pedals and joystick) and all the various axes without issue, so nothing else should be required for it to work - which, incidentally, is exactly what happens elsewhere; no 'profiles', kludges, or special apps required.

 

Again, please don't mistake my frustration with this as ingratitude towards your efforts.  Your willingness to help is altruistically appreciated.

 

Beard, thank you as well...I'm going to try that, I'm not sure if you're talking about from within CFS3(?)

EDIT: No joy...no pun intended.  I thought I had tried this before, and I'm sure now that I had, it just doesn't work.  Similar to WOFF, I can delete assignments easily, and selecting which controller/flight control surface 'group' of functions I understand well enough.  Just that, when I try to assign anything to the rudders, nothing shows up when I move the axis (pedals) - it looks as if it will only accept a button, not an 'axis'-type control as with slider knobs, joysticks, rudder pedals (even though both my joystick and rudder pedals show up fine in thr list of devices).

 

I hate this.

 

EDIT2:  It's actually not the 'control surface' group in CFS3, there's a special one called "Axis Controls", which then shows *only* the rudder axes: X, Y, and rudder (I think is how they are named).  ANd I see how this could be deleted, so that's a start...but, 2 things here:

 

1. WOFF has no such Axis 'group', just 'control surfaces', which seems to make this idea moot, and

 

2. I do hope it's not true that I must have this assignment deleted in CFS3 to make it work in OFF.  Yes, I understand WW1 a/c had no brakes - but those in CFS3 do!  (And as much as everyone maligns CFS3 I do still like to fly that sometimes).

 

Edit 2a: It works, in CFS3 - although obviously by sacrificing the toe brakes (not good).  Unfortunately, it doesn't change WOFF.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Tamper

[hood 2]

Tamper, I have found the answer to our problem.At least on my rig.

Select controls and select Saitek Rudder Pedals.Select All Commands not just Control Surfaces.

Scroll down to Aileron Axis and Delete Assignment.

Scroll down to Elevator Axis and Delete Assignment

Save Config with whatever name you like.I called mine Eureka.

Then select your joystick and scroll down to Rudder Axis and......Yes.!Delete Assignment.

Good Luck.I hope it works for you.

[Tamper 9]

hiya hood - thanks m8; also thanks to the other fellows who tried helping above.

 

hood, I'm glad you got it working, but that didn't work for me.  The problems was (I learned, over time) that - for example - deleting the rudder axis on my joystick would delete *ALL* the assignments.  No problem, thought I, just re-assign the ones you want, right? WRONG *lol*  As I mentioned above, once I deleted the rudder, I couldn't re-assign anything, the box would say just "Incorrect Joystick" *ARRGH*  (same for the rudder pedals, BTW)

 

However, at some point, OBD has updated their online FAQ PDF, to include mention that if you've used FaceTrackNoIR and therefore have the 'virtual joystick' driver installed, it causes conflict.

 

Even though I do have TrackIR, I had loaded my sons' PS3 EyeCam and FaceTrackNoIR as sort of an evaluation, to allow them to play flight sims with head tracking without having to buy(!) another TrackIR.  Webcams are way cheaper, and my brother was also interested in OFF, but couldn't afford TrackIR.

 

Anyway, I've had it installed, right alongside all my other stuff (TrackIR, pedals, stick, webcams, etc.) and it's never been a problem even in other flight sims.  So I really would have no reason to suspect it.

 

Over on 'the other site' I was following posts re: controller probs; lo-and-behold I saw where Pol had posted about the updated FAQ (even though it didn't say it had been updated, so it was really only by chance that I decided I would look one more time...having read the entire original document before installing, of course).  It also includes an updated/expanded section on binding controllers which wasn't there prior (although in my case, I knew full well how it should work, it just wouldn't work due to the Vjoy issue).

 

Anyways, all sorted, and FWIW no need to change the undelying CFS3 axes, so AFAIK nothing says you have to lose toe brakes in CFS3.  I haven't checked yet, but the document seems to say this VJoy issue only matters while you're actually trying to bind the controls.  I'd rather not lose FaceTrackNoIR because I believe it has promise for lots of people who cannot afford TrackIR.  So, now that the WOFF controls are bound properly, I'm going to try putting Vjoy back at some point.  I'm trying to keep this thread updated and writing in such detail so that it might help someone else - I'll bet money I'm not the only one who has (or will have) this issue.  This is a very peculiar problem, and I'd hate to see someone give up on WOFF because they couldn't find a solution.

 

Thanks again to you folks who tried to help :)

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Glad you were able to get it all sorted out Tamper.  While it was unfortunate that you had to take a rather tortured route to get here the upside of your ordeal is that there is now a lot of good info on the subject in this thread that others can look to. 

 

.

[Tamper 9]

Lou - precisely.  I do hope it helps someone avoid what I went through *lol*  On the subject of dialogues documenting problems/resolutions, the Devs are jumping in and helping, but only on the "official" site (unfortunate, but perfectly within their rights to do so, and understandable they're not going to duplicate all that effort on two sites).  So it's really best to follow there (I just refuse to deal with that site, so it's my own choice, really).

 

That being said, I see a lot of "Contact us on Support" from the Devs to people reporting problems.  I honestly don't get it.  It would be better for the community as a whole to 'see' these processes, and perhaps allow them to sort through their problems themselves.  You know, it was by reading and following the posts that I got through this - and not once did I have to bother the Devs with an email, which requires time to respond to, etc.  Undoubtedly, there will be more than one person who experiences the vast majority of different problems, and if it's outlined on the boards then people can follow rather than 1,000 individual emails to support, each with probably the same solution as 50 other folks.

 

It's great they're dealing with the issues, don't get me wrong - and entirely up to them, of course, how they do it...I just don't see the advantage to "private" dialogues when most issues will be experienced by far more than one person, and may not even be a "Fixed in version X" problem with the sim.

 

Anyway, yes, that's why I'm trying to document my issue/fix.

 

If I may, back to your suggestion (controller 'profiling' software) for a moment; it really is up to the individual how to load/run his machine, and I don't expect anyone to do as I do.  To each his own, as it were, and more power to ya :)  However, I can say that the way I run my machine(s) is a product of decades of experience, as well as what would seem "common sense".  The less you load, the less you'll have potential for problems and conflicts.  And we've all heard countless tales of the evils of 'start-up' programs, etc. all taking up resources on our PCs.  Just my own perspective, really; try to keep things as lean as possible.

 

Ironically, in this case particularly, I basically got 'busted' breaking my own rule by leaving something on the machine that truthfully didn't *need* to be there (although I do hope it can peacefully co-exist with WOFF and other controllers ultimately).  If I wasn't actively using the Vjoy, I should've uninstalled it, it just didn't seem to be causing any problems until now.  Live and learn.

 

And speaking of learning..wow, the new AI is really a handful, I gotta say.  I was flying a few QCs to test the controls situation, and even once the controls were sorted, I kept losing the little b*stards only to have 'em pop in right behind me...

 

I'll learn, but it might not be by living...