Panther against Meteor, which mark?

[Stratos 3,192]

I have been flying a lot of Blue Vs Blue lately as is fun, different and let me learn a lot about the planes I usually fly. Now I will like to try the Panther and the Meteor one against the other, but which version of the Meteor will make a fair fight against the Panther? The F.4 or the F.8?

 

Thanks!

[+Spillone104 553]

The Meteor F.8 have a bit of advantage over the Phanter in the thrust to weight rateo, and the armament is practically identical with 4x20mm cannons.

[Stratos 3,192]

And the F.4??

[Fubar512 1,350]

If you take the time to perform a bit of research, you'll find stuff like this to help with a comparison:

 

The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) acquired 113 Meteors between 1946 and 1952, 94 of which were the F.8 variant.^[93] The first RAAF Meteor was a F.3 delivered for evaluation in June 1946.^[94]

Australia's F.8s saw extensive service during the Korean War with No. 77 Squadron RAAF, part of British Commonwealth Forces Korea, and had personnel from other Commonwealth air forces attached to it. The squadron had arrived in Korea equipped with piston engine aircraft, the F-51D Mustangs. In order to match the threat posed by Communist MiG-15 jet fighters, it was decided to reequip the squadron with Meteors.^[94] Jet conversion training was conducted at Iwakuni, Japan, after which the squadron returned to the Korean theatre in April 1951 with about 30 Meteor F.8s and T.7s. The squadron moved to Kimpo Air Base in June, and was declared combat ready the following month.^[95] Other aircraft, such as the F-86 Sabre and the Hawker Hunter, were considered but were determined to be unavailable; the Meteor proved to be considerably inferior in combat against the MiG-15 in several respects, including speed and maneuverability at high altitude.^[96]

On 29 July 1951, 77 Squadron began operating their Meteors on combat missions. The squadron had mainly been trained in the ground attack role, and had difficulties when assigned to bomber escort duty at sub optimum altitudes. On 29 August 1951, eight Meteors were on escort duty in "MiG Alley" when they were engaged by six MiG-15s; one Meteor was lost and two damaged, and 77 Squadron did not officially destroy any enemy aircraft on this occasion.^{[97][N 2]} On 27 October, the squadron achieved its first probable followed by two probables six days later.^[98] On 1 December, during the air battle of Sunchon between 12 Meteors and some 40 MiG-15s, the squadron had its first two confirmed victories:Flying Officer Bruce Gogerly made the first kill. However, in the course of the same dogfight, four Meteors were also destroyed.^[99]

RAAF Meteor F.8 A-77-570 undergoing maintenance at Kimpo air base (K-14) during the Korean War.

At the end of 1951, 77 Squadron and its Meteors were assigned to ground attack duties due to their favourable low-level performance and sturdy construction.^[99] In February 1952, over a thousand sorties were flown in the ground attack role; these sorties continued until May 1952, when 77 Squadron switched to fighter sweep operations. The last encounter between the Meteor and the MiG-15 was in March 1953, during which a Meteor piloted by Sergeant John Hale recorded a victory.^[100] By the end of the conflict, the squadron had flown 4,836 missions, destroying six MiG-15s, over 3,500 structures and some 1,500 vehicles. About 30 Meteors were lost to enemy action in Korea—the vast majority had been shot down by anti-aircraft fire while serving in a ground attack capacity.^[93]

 

 

 

A VF-111 F9F-2 dropping bombs in Korea, 1951/52

The Grumman Panther was the primary U.S. Navy and USMC jet fighter and ground-attack aircraft in theKorean War. The Panther was the most widely used U.S. Navy jet fighter of the Korean War, flying 78,000 sorties and scoring the first air-to-air kill by the U.S. Navy in the war, the downing of a North KoreanYakovlev Yak-9 fighter.^{[citation needed]} F9F-2s, F9F-3s and F9F-5s, as rugged attack aircraft, were able to sustain operations, even in the face of intense anti-aircraft fire. The pilots also appreciated the air conditioned cockpit, which was a welcome change from the humid environment of piston-powered aircraft.^[6] Despite their relative slow speed, Panthers also managed to shoot down two Yak-9s and seven Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15s for the loss of two F9Fs. On 3 July 1950, Lieutenant, junior grade Leonard H. Plog of U.S. Navy's VF-51 flying an F9F-3 scored the first U.S. Navy air victory of the war by shooting down a Yak-9.^[7] The first MiG-15 was downed on 9 November 1950 by Lieutenant Commander William (Bill) Amen of VF-111 "Sundowners" Squadronflying an F9F-2B. Two more MiG-15s were downed on 18 November 1950. The final four MiG-15s were downed on 18 November 1952 by Lt. Royce Williams of VF-781, flying off the carrier Oriskany during a series of air strikes against the North Korean port of Hoeryong, right across the mouth of the Yalu River from the major Soviet base at Vladivostok. Williams' victories were notable because all four were flown by Soviet Naval Aviation pilots.

In 1992, Russian authorities admitted that Captains Belyakov and Vandalov, and Lieutenants Pakhomkin and Tarshinov were lost on 18 November 1952. Information regarding this fight had been suppressed by the U.S. Navy at the time because personnel of the then-new National Security Agency had been involved in the intercept, and U.S. authorities were concerned that the Soviets might learn of this if the affair was publicized. No other fighter pilot ever scored four MiG-15s in a single combat.^[8] Future astronaut Neil Armstrong flew the F9F extensively during the war, even ejecting from one of the aircraft when it was brought down by a wire strung across a valley. Future astronaut John Glenn and Boston Red Sox all star baseball player, Ted Williams also flew the F9F as Marine Corps pilots.

[Stratos 3,192]

Well altought interesting is the comparison against another plane. With the specifications for the F.4 I will made.

[regula50 47]

In addendum to Fubar512 post:

 

The victory of Nov 9, 1950 is full admitted by the Soviet. The 139th GvIAP loss the MiG-15 flown by Capt Mikhail Grachev, KIA in this combat. Amen dive in his Panther to the limits to catch Grachev´s MiG(a early version with RD-45F engine)and despite the severe vibration and near blocked stick he succeded and hit the MiG. Then he was forced to apply herculan force to exit for the dive with just room to avoid a sea crash.

Grachev's MiG, was the first MiG-15 shot down in the Korean War and not as usually mentioned, the kill claimed by Russell Brown with F-80C on Nov 8, 1950. This MiG, attacked by Brown and flown by St/Lt Kharitonov from the 72th GvIAP, returned to base.

In summary, credit to the first MiG kill in the Korean War went to the US Navy and no to the USAF.

 

On Nov 18, 1950 the US Navy claims two other MiGs, but as usual with the Korean War and his lot of overclaims, only one was lost. That was another MiG-15 from the 139th GvIAP flown by Sn/Lt A.Tarshinov and shot down by Frederick C.Weber from the VF-31. Sn/Lt A.Tarshinov was KIA.

 

The Soviet obtained his revenge with the Panthers on Jul 21, 1951. This day the 196th IAP vectored by the GCI surprise a formation of F-9F-2B from the VMF-311. Al least three F9F were claimed but the USMC admitted only the loss of 123464 flown by Lt Richard Bell. This pilot was captured and became POW.

Panthers rarely adventured over MiG Alley after Nov 1950 and only a couple of times were encountered by MiGs.

On Apr 30, 1952 the VMF-311 had the dubious honour of be surprised a second time by MiGs near Kunu-ri. But his time were more lucky and only one of the seven Panther was damaged and the formation succeded in escape without losses.

 

The VF-24 was not so lucky and in escort mission, on Jul 4, 1952, was engaged by MiGs, S of Wonsan. Lt Jack Griffith was KIA in this combat.

 

Last combat between MiG-15s and Panthers, was the mentioned combat of Nov 18, 1952. This engagement between the MiGs from 781th IAP Pacific fleet and the F9F-5 Panthers from the VF-781 took place some 35 miles N of the CVA-34 Oriskany. Three MiG were shot down and his pilots killed(Capt Belyakov, Capt Vandalov and Lt Tarshinov). Lt Pakhomkin was mortally wounded but managed to make a emergency landing on the coast. The Panther flown by Lt Royce William took a couple of hits from the MiGs in the ailerons and hydraulic but he succeded in land at the CVA-34.

Edited July 17, 2014 by regula50