Olham 164 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) This video was posted several times here already, Widowmaker. The opinions about it were divisive. On one hand the German pilot showed human emotions rather than being a cold warrior. On the other hand, this same, saved bomber crew might come back with the next wave, and drop some dozens more bombs on German civilians. Humanity and logic are harshly conflicting here, I think. Edited October 23, 2015 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted October 23, 2015 My apologies for the repost Olham... It must have escaped me, as i'd not seen it before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted October 23, 2015 No need to apologise, Widow - sorry if it sounded like a complaint. Double and triple postings of interesting stuff happen quite often, I guess. This one was only recently, and there was quite a debate about this action. I was among those who were touched, and I myself might have not been able to shoot that cripled bomber down. But from the view of the people on the ground, it might have looked like treason. Very conflicting sentiments there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capitaine Vengeur 263 Posted October 23, 2015 When Guynemer spared his life after a famous dogfight in Summer 1917, Ernst Udet was but a young ace with only 6 kills on his score. But Guynemer could not have missed the promising fighter pilot he was to become, and the Frenchman's quaint act of chivalry condemned to death dozens of French and Allied airmen, not to speak about countless strafed infantrymen. No Coubertin here: War is no sports, and when you fight one, the most important thing is not to compete, but to prevail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hauksbee 103 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Very conflicting sentiments there. 'Amen' to that. And there's no way to resolve it. ps: Good to see you again, Captain! Edited October 23, 2015 by Hauksbee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyviper 1,101 Posted October 24, 2015 If it means anything ... first time I saw it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch_P47M 9 Posted October 24, 2015 When Guynemer spared his life after a famous dogfight in Summer 1917, Ernst Udet was but a young ace with only 6 kills on his score. But Guynemer could not have missed the promising fighter pilot he was to become, and the Frenchman's quaint act of chivalry condemned to death dozens of French and Allied airmen, not to speak about countless strafed infantrymen. No Coubertin here: War is no sports, and when you fight one, the most important thing is not to compete, but to prevail. wasn't Guynemer on the leave that time, so he never could encounter Udet???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capitaine Vengeur 263 Posted October 24, 2015 wasn't Guynemer on the leave that time, so he never could encounter Udet???? After checking, the encounter is dated at 23 June 1917, while Guynemer scored no confirmed or unconfirmed kill between 5 June and 6 July. Possibly on leave, indeed, or testing new SPAD models. What I was surprised to learn browsing the French Wiki, was that naval ace Theo Osterkamp also wrote in his memoirs that he too had been spared by Guynemer after his MGs had jammed! Don't know much more: Osterkamp fought over Flanders all along, Guynemer was there only during his last weeks, from ending July to 11 September 1917. Udet is the only source for this dogfight, the only eyewitness who said he had identified Guynemer's SPAD by the stork and part of his motto. Guynemer himself never said a word about this encounter (neither about the one with Osterkamp, actually) before his death less than 3 months later. Maybe after all he was not the knightly pilot, usually he rather displayed the attitude of a crusader knight in divine mission, rampaging without mercy across the armies of Evil. Maybe he did not boast about this for the same reason the knight of the Luftwaffe above did not boast about his choice: sparing one of the enemies who are scorching your fatherland, so that he can come back later and cause more damage to your side, can indeed be considered as an unforgivable act of treason in wartime. Later, Guynemer could have write down this moment in his memoirs, had he survived the War - which was not in his plans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Olham 164 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Reading the book of Osterkamp - "Du oder ich" - I got the impression that he was a big of a "big mouth". A man who MIGHT get carried away a bit. Same for Udet, who was an excellent flyer and undoubted ace - but he was drinking too much later, and he liked telling stories - where they always true? After all, these guys could not imagine, that this could ever be cleared up later by so many historians. Arthur Gould Lee, later air vice-marshall of the RAF and certainly a great character, who has really seen and gone through a lot during WW1, has described an encounter with a single, all-red Fokker triplane, escorted by Albatros D.V. While this encounter may have truely happened - at that time, von Richthofen and Werner Voss tried out the first two prototypes of the Dr.I in combat - none of these two Dreideckers was red. Not even partly red. Von Richthofen began flying the only overall red Fokker Dr.1 short before his death - in April 1918. Was Lee a liar? Certainly not! But even his memory got fooled by informations he must have heard later. Were Udet and Osterkamp liars? Well, maybe they "spiced" their biographies with a well-invented story about a French ace's chivalry? Edited October 24, 2015 by Olham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UK_Widowmaker 571 Posted October 25, 2015 Well, for what it's worth..I may well have done the same as the German Flier... Humanity is inbuilt into all but psychopaths...and the sooner we learn to ignore our politicians and generals..the sooner old men will stop sending young men, to die for their warped principles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
