Having issues with terrains

[Tarnfalk 0]

Hi so I have been having a blast modding SF2 however I cannot seem to get terrain mods working. I want to add in the Desert 4 terrain however I cannot seem to get it to show. I have all the stuff it requires so I don't know if I am putting the terrains folder in the wrong place or what. Mind giving me a hand here?

[Wrench 9,850]

sure looks like it's in the wrong place. 

It goes in the mods folder, under users/saved games (which is ABOVE the /C drive)

[+Soulfreak 6,524]

If I´m not wrong the Desert terrains refer to the Strike Fighters 2 original desert terrain. In a Strike Fighters 2 Europe install you won´t find the desert.cat file.

Only if you have a merged install with original Strike Fighters 2 in it....

[Wrench 9,850]

indeed, if you don't have the original plane-jane SF2, you won't have the desert.cat. 

[Tarnfalk 0]

Hmm tried more and still can't seem to get it to work. Have a everything merged except Vietnam and the two expansion packs. Can't seem to get any other terrain mods working either. Pretty much followed your guy's and the mod authors instructions to the letter.

[Wrench 9,850]

to reiterate, there really ISN'T such a thing a a "seperate" install. . . 

ALL THE SF2 SERIES USES THE SAME CORE FILES LOCATED IN THE /PROGRAM FILES (X86) SECTION. ALL THE DLLS, CATS, EXES, ETC ARE LOCATED THERE.

What you have as "seperate installs" are actually the Mods folders, created by the individual executables, and located in the /Users/Saved Games. . .  folder ABOVE the C drive (look at my screen shots above).

So, you have all 5 SF2 games?  Which means you DO have SF2 (the basic, plain one, with the Desert terrain)? You can select this terrain to fly on??

Let's try this --

copy/paste the text into a response here, of the EXACT instructions you used to install the terrain, from it's read me.

AND...give us a screen capture of the folder structure of you mods folder (just like mine above.)

also, taking a closer look at your original post's screen caps, I'm not even SEEING a mods folder in the directory tree

 

 

[Tony_Spike 19]

On 28/09/2017 at 7:39 AM, Wrench said:

to reiterate, there really ISN'T such a thing a a "seperate" install. . . 

ALL THE SF2 SERIES USES THE SAME CORE FILES LOCATED IN THE /PROGRAM FILES (X86) SECTION. ALL THE DLLS, CATS, EXES, ETC ARE LOCATED THERE.

What you have as "seperate installs" are actually the Mods folders, created by the individual executables, and located in the /Users/Saved Games. . .  folder ABOVE the C drive (look at my screen shots above).

So, you have all 5 SF2 games?  Which means you DO have SF2 (the basic, plain one, with the Desert terrain)? You can select this terrain to fly on??

Sorry Wrench my man, dont mean to hijack, but this answer ties into one of my questions.....the Knowledge Base hasnt really been all that helpful in explaining any of the questions i have, and i have searched for the past week and a half since i upgraded to the 2 series (on site, google, scouring multiple threads) and i simply dont want to start new threads if i can get a answer to some of them on the existing ones if you know what i mean ....hope its not an inconvenience 
 

but can it truly be classed as a separate install?  ........yeah i get you said "Separate" in quotation marks, (suggesting the answer is technically not) but do the mod folders actually have a function besides making things easier to sort through? .......is their a point to them?

i mean i have read that having merged installs ruins Single Missions and since im finding that no matter how many folders i have in the mod folder it dosnt matter,
(because any executable i click on still causes content from all the games to show up any way) i feel loath to try them

i mean i dont want the awkward situation where say, ...a Egyptian MiG suddenly rocks up in Iceland, if you know what i mean, the campaigns it isnt so bad because the planes that appear are run by the INI files, but i dont want to worry about the same problem that plagued SF1 if i dont have to

in this situation it feels to me like they are not really separate at all? and the only way to remedy it is to have multiple installs or remove the exe's of the content you dont want to show up, and its this concept thats confusing me and probably confusing others as well, as their isn't really anywhere that explains it concisely, as all that is ever said is that the mod folders are separate installs with no explanation as to how this is the case and plenty of people saying the opposite is true .......and correct me if im wrong but all content showing up and single missions using EVERY plane available instead of the planes from each EXEs respective folders doth not really make a separate install in any way i can see

but i would love to know if these folders even matter in the grand scheme of things so i can plan my installs accordingly around them .....as if they somehow separate the planes that can show up in the single missions for each terrain then i will just merge them all and not worry about it for the rest of my life

thanks man, i hope that was easy to understand .....i have a habit of rambling
 

Edited October 19, 2017 by tonyspike

[Wrench 9,850]

Tonyspike, Keeping it in one thread is superb idea! I heartedly approve!

Don't worry about rambling -- I'm just the opposite (I don't get paid by the word. Actually, I don't get paid at all!! HEY!!!)

In SF2 you'll find a really unique feature - the userlist.ini. This can be applied (in some 3rd Party add ons) to ships, vehicles, various other ground objects, as well as the main "feature" - the aircraft. That, and the "Limited Nations" statements in the terrains main ini, and their attendant "Allowed Nations List" (aka "Nations.ini"), coupled with Exported = True/False (which ties back to the userlist) should -this being the operative word!- prevent the oddity you mention (Egyptian MiGs over Iceland). Now, so even more odd things can happen -- ever seen North Korean Meteors or Hunters?? The addition of another statement in the aircraft's data ini "Exported to Enemy = TRUE" adds a whole 'nuther lever of screw ups. But that's for another time.

The single missions you mention, are automatically generated when each mod folder is created. I don't think there's any way to get rid of them, as they exist in one of the missiondata cat files. You'll just have to ignore them.

 

Quote

because any executable i click on still causes content from all the games to show up any way

That's how it works -- because all contents are stored in the same core object cats. It's just the way it is.

As to each and every plane showing up, yup, they sure do! IDF Scooters in your SF2:Europe, French Mirages in Viet nam, etc. BUT..like I said above, the userlist should prevent them from showing up in single missions, and most definately in campaigns. If they actually are an annoyance (like, "I don't even want to take the chance of them showing up,) just delete their folders. The same is true for GroundObjects. But, as all Red Side comes from the Soviet Union ... only a very few "nation specific" vehicles exist that could cause issues.

 

Quote

as all that is ever said is that the mod folders are separate installs with no explanation as to how this is the case and plenty of people saying the opposite is true .......

the folks that say that are morons.

If that was the case, how is it that I have 3 seperate WW2 installs (MTO, ETO, PTO, but not CBI as I haven't finished that terrain) and have no issues??

Trust to the people that have been playing, modding, and disassembling these games since 2003 (2005 on my part!).

any other questions, we'll try address on a case-by-case basis

 

 

 

 

[Tony_Spike 19]

HA ...Thanks for the explanation man your a legend, i only ramble when im trying to get a point across and im not sure how to word it concisely, more than getting paid by the word but suppose we could always set up a Patreon page if you needed to get paid by the word LMAO 
 

5 hours ago, Wrench said:

In SF2 you'll find a really unique feature - the userlist.ini. This can be applied (in some 3rd Party add ons) to ships, vehicles, various other ground objects, as well as the main "feature" - the aircraft. That, and the "Limited Nations" statements in the terrains main ini, and their attendant "Allowed Nations List" (aka "Nations.ini"), coupled with Exported = True/False (which ties back to the userlist) should -this being the operative word!- prevent the oddity you mention

so basically the game has an extra ini file that SHOULD stop crossover issues ....fascinating!, i will look into that file when i get my setup sorted and see what it does

5 hours ago, Wrench said:

ever seen North Korean Meteors or Hunters?? The addition of another statement in the aircraft's data ini "Exported to Enemy = TRUE" adds a whole 'nuther lever of screw ups. But that's for another time.

No but being a Series 1 "veteran" (2012 if that even counts) with a merged install (yes i have raised a few eyebrows when i have mentioned this before lol, but lets just say it involves hours of work, and involves taking a WOI install as a base, then stripping down every cat file from the other games .....all the flight data cats for example .....and merging them into one flight data cat file) im used to anomalies and i have seen soviet spitfires over the suez so i know where your coming from 

5 hours ago, Wrench said:

The single missions you mention, are automatically generated when each mod folder is created. I don't think there's any way to get rid of them, as they exist in one of the missiondata cat files. You'll just have to ignore them.

 

That's how it works -- because all contents are stored in the same core object cats. It's just the way it is.

As to each and every plane showing up, yup, they sure do! IDF Scooters in your SF2:Europe, French Mirages in Viet nam, etc. BUT..like I said above, the userlist should prevent them from showing up in single missions, and most definately in campaigns. If they actually are an annoyance (like, "I don't even want to take the chance of them showing up,) just delete their folders. The same is true for GroundObjects. But, as all Red Side comes from the Soviet Union ... only a very few "nation specific" vehicles exist that could cause issues.

Well I always avoided the Single Missions in the SF1 install, so its not going to be a chore to do again, but i was hoping the game would collect its planes from the exe folder to mitigate this or something like that so i could play single mission mode without worry ........its not a case of wanting to get rid of them i just wondered if we had a degree of control over these problems in the 2 Series

5 hours ago, Wrench said:

the folks that say that are morons.

If that was the case, how is it that I have 3 seperate WW2 installs (MTO, ETO, PTO, but not CBI as I haven't finished that terrain) and have no issues??

Trust to the people that have been playing, modding, and disassembling these games since 2003 (2005 on my part!).

any other questions, we'll try address on a case-by-case basis

well what i meant by that was, people tend to call the mod folders separate installs then go on to say things that seem to contradict it, like mentioning the fact you can get Korean Hunters for example, its not the case they outright state they are not separate, but that they dont explain why they are still considered separate afterwards witch is why i was getting confused, either way if i have problems i usually ask someone with experience like yourself lol

thanks for the help either way,  im going to merge all my installs and risk it i guess, now i just need to know if First Eagles can be merged with the others?

i remember you couldn't in SF1 because it would screw with the Avionics on the biplanes, and i know its probably more advisable to keep eras as actual physical separate installs to avoid Anachronism Stew completely, but  since im planning to make my game into a history of flight game (got some sweet menu screens i made for it) and i would rather have all the fictional conflicts on a separate installation to the real world ones, then i would rather have 1 installs for the 3 eras of historical conflict i want (WWI, WWI and Cold War) and not have 4 installs if i i dont need to

Edited October 20, 2017 by tonyspike

[Tony_Spike 19]

UPDATE: (i couldnt edit my last post by the time i found this out)

case in point to something i said earlier about things not being explained well enough

i just found out that until i run a single mission for the first time it will continuously re-add deleted aircraft from my mod folders, and it helps to know that THIS is what was screwing up any separate era specific mod folders that i had

that this is an IMPORTANT step, isn't really mentioned ANYWHERE

i mean dont get me wrong wrench you mention to do it in the instructions for an era specific install, but you dont explain that its an important step and why, you just tell people do it ....it might help to explain that bit a bit more i think

[Wrench 9,850]

ah...the "leave one modern player flyable and one Red Side aircraft" trick for the WW2 type installs.

I honest to the gods DON'T know why that trick works. I suspect that the Game Engine (tm) sees these 2 "modern" aircraft and says  "well, everything looks ok here...lets load this puppy up!".

 

as to FE2, it's all by its self. It hasn't been touched by a patch (fortunately for the FE folks) since 2010, so it actually might be the most stable of the 3W games.

for grins and giggles I pulled ALL the pieces for the SPAD XIII from FE2, and dropped them into my ETO folder...it worked just fine (other than having to fly without any enemies...)

[Tony_Spike 19]

6 hours ago, Wrench said:

as to FE2, it's all by its self. It hasn't been touched by a patch (fortunately for the FE folks) since 2010, so it actually might be the most stable of the 3W games.

for grins and giggles I pulled ALL the pieces for the SPAD XIII from FE2, and dropped them into my ETO folder...it worked just fine (other than having to fly without any enemies...)

interesting, i might have a look and see if i can get it to merge ...cheers

[Wrench 9,850]

no, it won't merge with SF2. It's completely seperate. If one wanted to add an FE2 aircraft to SF2, you'll have to do as I did -- extract everything, and move the /*name-of-aircraft- folder with all the inis, lods (including ALL the cockpit pieces), skin maps AND all the necessary decals, sounds, guns, pilots, etc. It's a lot of work

[Tony_Spike 19]

21 hours ago, Wrench said:

no, it won't merge with SF2. It's completely seperate. If one wanted to add an FE2 aircraft to SF2, you'll have to do as I did -- extract everything, and move the /*name-of-aircraft- folder with all the inis, lods (including ALL the cockpit pieces), skin maps AND all the necessary decals, sounds, guns, pilots, etc. It's a lot of work

i have time, and patience......took me 8 hours to merge my gen 1 games.

as long as the planes avionics aint going to be affected i should be alright, i remeber i once tried a sopwith camel in wings over vietnam and it worked but it didnt behave the same way it did in FE and had no propeller

[Wrench 9,850]

maybe it was a jet camel?? Ducted fan??? 

[+baffmeister 1,205]

16 hours ago, tonyspike said:

i have time, and patience......took me 8 hours to merge my gen 1 games.

as long as the planes avionics aint going to be affected i should be alright, i remeber i once tried a sopwith camel in wings over vietnam and it worked but it didnt behave the same way it did in FE and had no propeller

Watch out for model size differences between FE2 and SF2. For some reason, TW went with smaller models in FE2.

[Tony_Spike 19]

On 22/10/2017 at 9:48 PM, baffmeister said:

Watch out for model size differences between FE2 and SF2. For some reason, TW went with smaller models in FE2.

actually come to think of it does this really matter if im only having the FE aircraft fly against other WWI aircraft .......im probs gonna take all the jet craft out of the folder