Fighting in the Sabre Dog (and other rocket only fighters)

[Viggen]

Nice thing about SF2 is being able to pick it up so easily after not playing for a while. But this time I found myself deciding I wanted to do a a NATO Fighters campaign in an F-86D. How do you fight in it? With only 24 FFARs the Sabre Dog is rather limited unless you happen to have bombers to intercept. And then there's the AI who are completely useless at trying to score hits. So those of you who've managed to do well with the likes of the F-86D or F-89, what are your secrets?!

[+dtmdragon]

@Viggen Check the AI performance figures in the data.ini and make sure they are the same as the stock TW lighting F1. I remember reading long ago that the AI uses the [StrafeAI] figures for air-to-air rockets so you want that to be the same as the Lightning. Pay attention to rocket/ gun boresight angles, aim pitch offset, the actual rocket attachment angles, and angles in the rocket pod if its a separate pod. Mimic what the lightning has and then see how the AI goes against bomber formations. I have done this with the Sabre dog and it does get kills. Check all the cockpit view/ aiming/ offset angles match the Lightning as well for when you are having a go yourself as a player controlled aircraft.

Alot of the AI performance figures for these 3rd party rocket interceptors in SF2 were set up for when guns that had rocket effets were used to mimic air to air rockets, because TW hadn't implemented the Lightning and the air to air rocket feature yet.

Edited July 6, 2024 by dtmdragon

[Viggen]

I'll have to check that out. I don't remember how old this install is so there's a chance I have an older data ini that was never updated. If the AI's performance is improved that will be incredibly helpful. Following suit with the Lightning's data might help with the operator issues of my own. Hopefully all this will help defeat the Badger and Iron Beagle menace. Thanks @dtmdragon !

For fighters I'll probably continue my long standing Saber Dog strategy going back to at least 2008: pray for a hit and firewall the throttle!

[Viggen]

Ah ha! No strafe data was in my F-86D's data ini. I'll set up a test mission in the morning and report back my findings. Hopefully this will make my wingmen useful!

[yakarov79]

@viggen and  @dtmdragon, thank you both for this refreshing discussion. I was able to move forward with my Sabre Dog flight...

wingmen were firing rockets, and Northern Europe was saved once again. Few small fixes and my Sabre Dog will be again ready to download. 

[fallout3]

On 2024/7/6 at 9:44 AM, dtmdragon said:

@Viggen Check the AI performance figures in the data.ini and make sure they are the same as the stock TW lighting F1. I remember reading long ago that the AI uses the [StrafeAI] figures for air-to-air rockets so you want that to be the same as the Lightning. Pay attention to rocket/ gun boresight angles, aim pitch offset, the actual rocket attachment angles, and angles in the rocket pod if its a separate pod. Mimic what the lightning has and then see how the AI goes against bomber formations. I have done this with the Sabre dog and it does get kills. Check all the cockpit view/ aiming/ offset angles match the Lightning as well for when you are having a go yourself as a player controlled aircraft.

Alot of the AI performance figures for these 3rd party rocket interceptors in SF2 were set up for when guns that had rocket effets were used to mimic air to air rockets, because TW hadn't implemented the Lightning and the air to air rocket feature yet.

Thank you very much for knowledge regarding the [Strafing] section! Will note it down.

I am also curious about some other questions regarding AA rocketry. Does AI use only "AA" rockets against air targets, or will it also employ ground attack rockets? Does AI have any preference if it has both at the same time AA rockets and guns?

[yakarov79]

 

8 hours ago, fallout3 said:

Does AI use only "AA" rockets against air targets,

yes. the game will use those rockets against air threats, as long as aircraft data ini is properly configured (stock Lightning F.1) and weapon data ini.Maybe it is not the most efficient way to stop bombers, but like in reality it never was.

Since recently I have been flying often with Dogs...my best score is 4 bombers out of 12..- my flight count is 8 Dogs. But I believe it was mostly due to the correct approach on intercept. And a lot of luck as aiming those rockets is "cursed" 

8 hours ago, fallout3 said:

or will it also employ ground attack rockets?

I never tried that,  but suppose if you add CAS to the aircraft role it will eventually fire something.

8 hours ago, fallout3 said:

Does AI have any preference if it has both at the same time AA rockets and guns?

I suppose like any other aircraft in the game after expanding all rockets, bombs, and balloons will switch to guns. 

But generally, Sabre Dogs did not have guns...so.

[fallout3]

On 2024/8/19 at 2:04 AM, yakarov79 said:

 

yes. the game will use those rockets against air threats, as long as aircraft data ini is properly configured (stock Lightning F.1) and weapon data ini.Maybe it is not the most efficient way to stop bombers, but like in reality it never was.

Since recently I have been flying often with Dogs...my best score is 4 bombers out of 12..- my flight count is 8 Dogs. But I believe it was mostly due to the correct approach on intercept. And a lot of luck as aiming those rockets is "cursed" 

I never tried that,  but suppose if you add CAS to the aircraft role it will eventually fire something.

I suppose like any other aircraft in the game after expanding all rockets, bombs, and balloons will switch to guns. 

But generally, Sabre Dogs did not have guns...so.

Thank you for the info! Guess I`ll test a little myself. Am always interested in AA rocketry~