Caesar

I actually flew against the Mirage 2000 guns only about a week ago. Big difference is that I was flying the F-14B rather than the A; more thrust to play with! Usually, I don't try to turn with the Mirage 2000, because it becomes parity in a nose-low one-turn circle until we get to the deck, then you're forced to try some vertical presses, since its still parity, and eventually, the AI runs into the ground or runs out of gas. If you can force a vertical fight early on, you aren't as likely to get down to the deck, and you're more likely able to drive the fight slow(er). The AI doesn't do so hot at lower airspeeds.

Cougar, The F/A-18E/F/G does have a stall speed value of 51.44. I don't remember the units, it has been so long since I've messed with an FM (m/s?), but the Super Bug has a lot of peculiarities with it that I still don't quite grasp. The fuel, for example. When you actually calculate out the fuel values in the data.ini, it is correct to the aircraft. Then, you load it in game, and it's 30,000 pounds! (This also affects the ThirdWire F-14A, which actually has 16,200 pounds of fuel internally in the data.ini, but in-game has something like 14,800 or thereabouts.) Similarly, you can check what the engine output is based on altitude, airspeed etc. by looking at either's table data. As such, I'm still not sure why the bird can climb to infinity down at 96 knots at high altitude, when it's getting less than 100% by speed and another .2 multiplier by altitude. There must be more to it than what I'm seeing. EDIT: Also, nice vid on the 2 v X!

That would be flying it by the NATOPS manual. - Funny enough, every single one of the top-end Tomcat drivers I've spoken to eschew the NATOPS "no landing flaps in a dogfight" rule. One went so far as to spray-paint the red under the slats so other pilots wouldn't bitch when he selected full flaps (happened during ACEVAL/AIMVAL). Another pilot went and did this for an A-4 after he saw the F-14 driver do it just to mask the soft-wing Skyhawk's energy state in a furball. The term they used was "Flaps in a non-landing configuration" (i.e. full flaps being used for a fight, rather than landing) to get around the NATOPS wording. As you say, though, in a multi-bandit environment WITH MISSILES, getting that slow can be a problem. Multi-bandit guns only, I've never run into a problem using full flaps and getting the fight slow. It's actually my preferred fighting technique in the guns-only furball in the F-14. With respect to the MiG-17, there had been a modified version of the FM a while ago which simulated the beyond 450 knot limits of the Fresco, but if memory serves, it got jacked up by one of the patches. As such, the MiG-17s in SF2 are UFO's. Might look into that in the future.

Folks, Kind of getting off topic here; recommend bringing it back to DACT reports.

Yep, that was one of my old vids. I've gotten a lot better since then! Kyot, got some answers: Ok, so question here. I don't have the mission editor at the moment, case of myfundsalow. Is that what I am going to need to create 1v1 DACT missions? I've been playing around trying to get the AI to work Flankers into Single Missions over Iceland, Germany, and Paran, no such luck. I can get Fulcrums, but generally I am still mucking around with Floggers. Getting kinda ticked. And then of course there is the BVR aspect of the Single Mission which means I've got to smack a bunch of them in the face, hope one survives for some turn and burn. Also, I have a missions folder from some downloads (Operation Darius, Desert Storm), but they don't seem to want to show up when I go to the Load Mission part of Single Mission. How do I fix that? For Mission Editor, it's available as DLC for 9.99. If you buy it, go to Single Mission and click on the little pencil at the lower right above the "Accept" button. Within the Mission Editor, you can select the aircraft icons and change their attributes, from type, to loadout, etc. BUT! If you don't, you can still kind of force what aircraft will show up in a given mission. I believe you always have the ability to save a single mission after you complete it. Once saved, exit SF2, go to your Saved Games/ThirdWire/Strike Fighters x/Missions folder and open the mission with notepad. From there, look for your bandit groups (usually the first one is [AircraftMission002]. AircraftType= (second line down) can be changed to whatever other installed aircraft you have (say, Su-27). In here, you can also modify the loadout, and even waypoints, but without a map, changing the waypoints is a pain to get right! Save the changes, then load that mission in Single Mission and you should be good to go. Also, ODS and Op Darius, if memory serves, are campaigns, not single missions, so you'd find them under Campaign. And on a side topic, I've done it once or twice, but I've seemed to lose the magic, isn't there a way to put a F-14 Alpha skin on a Bravo or Delta and keep the pipes and chin pods accurate? Yes, you can. I've done that for the F-14B and F-14D. The skins themselves don't change the physical model of the aircraft, only its paint scheme. Easiest way to do it for the F-14B is to take an F-14A's skin set (F-14A_001 - F-14A_005) and change the engine "turkey feathers," turbine, and exhaust to the F110's in F-14A_005. You'll need to update some other stuff, such as the name and texture set. I love DACT, used to do it all the time in FA. Sucks that SF2 doesn't have multiplayer, is the MP in SF1 any good? I trying to convince a buddy to get WOV so we can fly together. I generally prefer Tomcats and Crusaders, but the Super Bug is growing on me, a little. It will never be as Sierra Hotel as the Tomcat. If Caesar or Eric has taken the Turkey up against the Rhino2, can you link it? There are 34 pages of DACT to look through :/ Or I might just get off my lazy bottom and do a search. Getting Multiplayer to work in the SF1 series is a little tricky - you have to have the EXACT same install. Recommend you pick the jets and weapons you want and keep it ONLY to that. I recall playing MP on a LAN once with a full blown modded install and my friend using the exact same file - there was so much stuff that the computers didn't even try to connect. We went with a minimal install of extra aircraft and weapons and viola! It worked! And yes, EricJ and I have taken up F-14 and F/A-18E/F against either respective plane several times. Hope this helps!

Yeah, that's the chief problem with gun pods: big and draggy! You could always check out the F-4E; it's not fixed wing like you were aiming for, but at the same time, it's got the gun internal!

Do533, I'm sure there are some examples in here; page 8 had some F-4D vs. MiG-19 action, and I think we had some fights against the MiG-17, I just don't remember where. The MiG-17 is a damn UFO in SF2, but I've generally found the best success against them by flying loops. They eventually run out of energy having a lower T:W than the F-4. Turning? No chance in hell! The thing is, unlike the actual MiG-17, these ones can put on ridiculous turns at high speeds. Whereas a real MiG-17 will do about 3-4g at 450 knots (no hydraulics), the SF2 ones will put on more than 10 (found this out with debug on). As such, they'll turn with you at high speed, and they'll out turn you at slow speed. Pure vertical fight, though, is where you can get them more easily.

Since the F-15 hasn't seen much loving recently, I decided to take it up against the MiG-29. For the fight, I used Crusader's Early F-15C (1979). Although I don't use the F-15 very much, I know it doesn't run into the limiters that the -16 does, and I know it has excellent thrust to weight ratio. Its major drawback with my preferred fighting style is the lack of wing-length flaps. Fight starts, and like going against the F-14, the MiG-29 spots the F-15 immediately and turns into the F-15. The F-15 takes a similar initial approach as the F-14: pass under the MiG-29 and make an immediate vertical press. The MiG begins a right turn as the F-15 reaches the apex, and as the F-15 begins to come down and attempt to get lead, the MiG begins to pull into the vertical to force an overshoot. The F-15 comes down through the MiG's altitude and pulls back up to follow. Two vertical loops follow, and initially, the F-15 has the advantage. The MiG begins to flatten out into a turn, and the F-15 follows, but the MiG somehow managed to gain more energy and begins out-turning the F-15 until the fight goes about neutral and nothing happens. After several circles, the F-15 levels out and gets to about 450 knots, with the MiG on its tail about 2 miles behind. The F-15 begins a 6.5g turn to the left, which it builds to about 8.2g. At 10,000 feet and 450 knots, the F-15 is very nearly sustaining 8g, only losing a few knots per second, while the MiG pulls hard, but too hard to sustain the turn, and the F-15 gets behind the MiG's 3/9 line. The MiG levels off for a moment and the F-15 continues pursuit. Getting about three-quarters of a mile off, the F-15 starts catching up to the MiG, who starts turning again. The F-15 starts to overshoot and attempts a high g barrel roll. Coming down, the MiG breaks into the F-15, but the F-15 gets lead. At about 330 knots and 7.2g, the F-15 is able to achieve lead on the MiG and takes a snap shot roughly four minutes into the fight. The shot misses, and the MiG pulls away. As another energy circle is about to form, the F-15 goes nose-low to try to maintain energy and cut the MiG off mid-circle. The F-15 gets the nose near the MiG, who takes the opportunity to press nose-low as well, and winds up below the F-15, and performs a harsh pull to try to get nose on. The aircraft pass with no valid shots, and as the F-15 follows the MiG, the MiG levels out and starts another circle. The F-15 follows the MiG to the deck, hoping that will screw with the MiG's tactics. The F-15 begins a series of vertical presses which wind up fruitless. The MiG is typically able to out-pitch the F-15, but also runs out of energy earlier. This allows the F-15 to repeatedly wind up behind the MiG's 3/9 line, but also without big flaps, unable to really curl inside the MiG to capitalize on the position. On the fourth press, the F-15 performs a double-Immleman, which totally runs the MiG out of energy. The MiG is stuck nose-up with the F-15 coming down, finally landing on the MiG's tail. The MiG is at under 1,600 pounds of fuel, but the F-15 also has about 4,500 pounds, and the fight has to end soon. The F-15 minimally uses afterburner chasing the MiG through a series of harsh break turns, followed by leveling off, followed by harsh break turns (etc). approximately four times. On the fourth, the MiG starts a turn to the left, and the F-15 gets good lead, killing the MiG with guns in a left-hand turn at just above 8000 feet and 12 minutes into the fight. This fight took about as long as my F-16 fights, and I feel that it's better to keep the F-15's energy up. It might be able to brute force itself through a slow-speed loop, but it feels to me that without the extra lifties from the flaps, it can't capitalize as quick on its position of advantage down in the 100's of knots. The MiG-29 was still able to out pitch me, but without the limiters, I was more able to counter, and I think the MiG got nose on twice; once early in the weeds, but it ran out of energy, then a second time during the double-Immleman after I started the second vertical pull. It again ran out of energy as my F-15 forced itself into the second vertical component (I are a rocket!), but the MiG tried to follow me with much less airspeed and really got stuck! Will have to try out some other aircraft. I did an F/A-18C two pages back, IIRC. Probably give the Fulcrum a rest.

Cougar, You can make your own carrier missions in the in-game mission editor. Just make a recon mission and move all of the mission waypoints back to around the carrier (really, it could be any mission, I'd suppose). For the TMF Super Pack F-14's in the campaigns, first, I must point out that I am part of a team that keeps them up to date in the Super Pack, so they aren't mine, they're The Mirage Factory's and I was added into the Super Pack effort as part of the team. Adding them into the campaign is fairly easy. First, you may need to extract the campaign data.ini's. Once extracted, (I think it's CAMPAIGNNA1_DATA.ini) you're looking for the following: [AirUnit001] AircraftType=F-14A_77 <- Change This Squadron=VF41 <- Change This ForceID=1 Nation=USN CarrierBased=TRUE NavalUnitID=1 ShipID=1 DefaultTexture=USNGrey3 <- Change This StartNumber=1 RandomChance=100 MaxAircraft=14 StartAircraft=14 MaxPilots=14 StartPilots=14 Experience=100 Morale=100 Supply=100 MissionChance[sWEEP]=90 MissionChance[CAP]=90 MissionChance[iNTERCEPT]=100 MissionChance[ESCORT]=90 MissionChance=0 MissionChance[CAS]=0 MissionChance[sEAD]=0 MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=0 MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0 MissionChance[RECON]=0 MissionChance[NAVAL_SEARCH]=0 MissionChance[NAVAL_ATTACK]=0 MissionChance[ESCORT_JAMMER]=0 MissionChance[ESCORT_DECOY]=0 MissionChance[CRUISE_MISSILE]=0 MissionChance[EARLY_WARNING]=0 UpgradeType=NEVER [AirUnit002] AircraftType=F-14A_77<- And This Squadron=VF84 <- And This ForceID=1 ...etc If you're flying pre-82, use F-14A_74. 1982-1995 use F-14A_82, and 1996-2004 use F-14A_96. IIRC, the map defaults to 1974-1989. You can keep the squadrons if you want, but the DefaultTexture is not going to be the same for the TMF F-14's. Might have to change that to the squadron you want to fly's texture. It's been a while since I've screwed with the campaign files so I'm a bit rusty. The TMF F-14s are compatible with all of the basic weaponry available of the SF2:NA campaign, so you shouldn't run into problems of weapons not appearing. Would I recommend it? Well, I can't say I wouldn't! Just kind of depends on your preference. If you run into difficulties, use the search or PM me.

Do, Just gave that a shot. Unfortunately, it didn't work as planned. Not sure why. When I did the loop, the MiG began to come upstairs with me as I came down from the apex, so I overshot, then pulled up into him. Fight took about twelve minutes, but this time it was entirely neutral or offensive; the MiG didn't get on the -16's tail once. It just took me that long to get a good firing solution to bag him! In the real world, the F-16 might have better T/W at a given altitude/airspeed, but in the game, with the debug on, I can see how much thrust the engines are outputting on either aircraft at any altitude/airspeed, and the MiG-29C has about as good or better T/W than the F-16 in game at similar areas of the envelope. The biggest problem for me didn't really come from power, but from limiters. The MiG would be sitting between 24 and 28 true AoA while I was stuck at about 20, so it would almost always get inside my turn especially at slow speeds. If memory serves that limit in game was put there so the F-16 wouldn't rip its wings off at high speeds, and it's not very noticeable until you get low on energy, hence why this fight I tried not to slog it out with the Fulcrum like I had in the previous fight.

Cougar, For the + - sight on the F-16, at 1g, the bullets fly at the "+." DA, Working on them directly on the skin - will try a .tga. zwz, I went ahead and brought up an F-16C Block 50 against the MiG-29C CCCP for two DACT missions, then I did a baseline in the F-14B, and finally I did a fight in the F-16C Block 30 against the MiG-29C as well, based on how the first two went. For both F-16C_B50 missions, both aircraft had 100% internal fuel, guns, and nothing else. The first fight wasn't much of a fight. One of the big differences between the F-14 and F-16 is their size. On both missions flying the F-16C, the MiG-29 didn't immediately start turning into me, and in the first mission, this was to his detriment. What happened was: the F-16C got nose on. The MiG-29 went to beam the F-16's radar by flying in the same relative direction it had been. The F-16 pulled to his six o'clock high, and the MiG-29 started a left-hand turn. The fight never actually got out of this left-hand turn, and after about 30 seconds in the turn, the F-16 shot down the MiG-29 with guns. Second fight started similar, however, this time the MiG actually turned into the F-16. The fight then went on for THIRTEEN MINUTES. Initially, the F-16 went vertical at the merge. Even with near full tanks, the aircraft was sustaining its energy well. The MiG-29 started a turn into the F-16, and as the F-16 tried to pull its nose to lead the MiG-29, overshot due to too much energy, and headed back up the circle. The MiG continued its turn, then pulled vertical himself. The MiG gained on the F-16, but burned more energy as it reached the top. The F-16, lower on energy this time, went nose-low at the base of the loop, and began a nose-low turn as the MiG came down from the loop. What happened next was two one-turn energy circles. As the two aircraft began to approach the deck, the F-16 attempted a vertical press, but now was running into its angle of attack limiters. As the F-16 reached the apex of the loop, the MiG pulled up as well, inside of the F-16. The F-16 cut engine, put its lift vector to the same as the MiG and pulled, forcing an overshoot. Due to lack of lift authority at the slow speeds, the F-16 was unable to capitalize on the overshoot, the MiG lit the cans, and a slow-speed set of turns developed. The MiG had the clear advantage at the slower speeds as the F-16 ran into its lower alpha limit and took a snap shot at the F-16 during a second vertical press, missing and overshooting again. Again, the F-16 was unable to capitalize on the overshoot, the MiG lit the cans, and another slow-speed set of turns developed. The MiG again began getting the advantage due to better slow speed characteristics, however, the F-16 went nose low to try to force a ground kill against the MiG. The MiG pulled out in time. This happened yet another time, but this third time, the F-16 accelerated away. Able to run long enough and high enough for the MiG to run critically low on fuel (maxing around 45,000 feet), the F-16 went nose-low, dropped airbreaks, and curled inside of the MiG, which was in a descending turn. This was followed by the MiG attempting to extend and escape, but with under 1900 pounds of fuel (debug on), it couldn't run on afterburners. The F-16 pursued the MiG, which accelerated to about 1.3M, then performed a sharp vertical pull, which was finished by a hard right-hand turn, which the F-16 could not match. This happened about four times. On the fourth occasion, the F-16 anticipated what the MiG would do, and pulled early into the predicted direction. The MiG attempted to reverse as the F-16 got lead. The F-16 rolled and pulled with the MiG, which reversed into another right turn, and it is here that the F-16 achieved a snap-shot guns kill. Holy DAMN that was a long one! However, I also began to suspect that the F-16C Block 50's flight model from my install wasn't the most up to date. The aircraft was peaking around 7g through most of the fight, only just barely making it to 9 in very specific areas of the envelope. I resolved to do a baseline in the F-14B, but also to take up an F-16C Block 30, which to my memory seemed much more maneuverable. When I brought up the F-14B, I had the MiG-29 killed in just shy of three minutes. Unlike the F-16, the MiG immediately got tally on the F-14 before the merge and began turning towards the F-14. Aircraft merge, F-14 under MiG-29. F-14 performs a vertical press, flaps to take-off at apex of the loop, lead on MiG on the way down, no shot, but had already begun pulling into the MiG and followed the MiG into its turn. Gravity + GE engines = ENERGY; the F-14 stuck to the MiG's tail through its turn. MiG levels off, then tries a very high "g" turn in the opposite direction, which drains energy gets both aircraft slow. F-14 matches turn, and the MiG reverses, both aircraft down in the low 200's/high 100's of knots now. Rudder and lateral stick into the direction of the MiG, which rolls about as slow as an F-14 (in some cases slower) into the vertical, initially trying to get the F-14 to overshoot. MiG falls to about 250 feet off the nose of the F-14, visible out of the right quarter panel, but then strokes the burners when its apparent the F-14 isn't coming out front. The MiG pulls vertical, getting some altitude, but the F-14 is directly behind and opens with a stream of 20mm, downing the MiG in a left-hand turn. The F-16C Block 30 fight came after this. In this case, I immediately noticed that the Block 30's FM was the newer mark. I might have had the beta for the Block 50 still installed...still not 100% sure. While this fight still wasn't as fast as the fight in the F-14B, the biggest difference is that I was either driving the fight, or confident that I could reverse a position of disadvantage. The fight started with the MiG trying to beam the F-16's radar, and then turning into the F-16. The F-16 turned with the MiG, going for max "g", which was much higher than the Block 50's. Due to this experiment, energy was burned and the F-16 wound up coming out wide against the Fulcrum. A one-circle followed with the F-16 in a position of advantage, but unable to capitalize. Altitude lowered and the F-16 attempted to perform a vertical loop. No position of advantage was gained, but the MiG, which still had slightly better limits, couldn't take advantage, either. More turning on the deck, then the F-16 reversed and turned the fight into a two-circle. The MiG got nose-on first, but had no angles for a shot, vertical for the F-16, lather, rinse, repeat. The third time, however, turned fatal for the MiG. After climbing above the F-16, and with the F-16 about 1500 feet off the deck turning into the MiG, the MiG attempted a diving attack against the F-16. The F-16 did nothing to respond as it was unnecessary and the MiG put its nose in the dirt ending the fight at the five-minute mark. I've said it many times before, it isn't the plane, it's the pilot. Simply put, I'm not as good in the F-16 because I don't spend much time in it. It feels very jittery to me in the gun pattern and it runs into its lift limits in the slow fight which is a killer for me, since I love getting rolled up into a furball. The F-14 I'm much more familiar with and can fly and fight in it better. At slow speeds, the flaps are a lifesaver, and I feel a lot more comfortable in the gun pattern.

DA, I've actually been in CONUS for a while. Went from Thule to Rome NY (former Griffiss AFB) to Schriever AFB CO. Most of the stuff I worked on was done while at Rome, which was a really weird assignment for my AFSC when it happened. I was under AFMC at the time and had a lot more spare time. I'm back on the ops side of the house, so it's a higher work tempo again. That and the Tomcat Super Pack has been relatively stable since patch 1.21. There's a planned 1.22 in progress, but it seems to have gone to the back burner for a while, and to this day, I STILL can't get VF-211's damn nose stripes to look good, so follow ups to the Gulls skin pack have also been stifled. zwz, Check back through the thread. I'm pretty sure I've taken an F-16 up against several of those aircraft in the past.

Yep, still here, just have been doing other stuff. I'll get around to posting a report again sometime in the future.

Very nice bird! Many thanks to the team!

<S>

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Use the vertical and if you get slow, drop the flaps. Works like a charm for me!

Boresight, I'm not sure why you'd need to use the .CAT extractor to get the TMF Tomcat's cockpit.ini. It should be right in the file folder, and if it isn't, your cockpit shouldn't work! We also didn't include any .CAT files in the Super Pack (this would violate TW's rules), so unless you put the .CAT file there, it shouldn't exist in that folder. The .CAT extractor is explicitly meant for TW .CAT files. My next question becomes: what are you trying to do with the cockpit.ini? If you need to edit it, just use notepad or a similar basic text editor. Hope this helps.

Felix Natalis Tibi!

Take care, RC. Hope you get well soonest!

SE, No, the game doesn't model the RWR warnings when the missile goes active. Makes it kind of hard to estimate where the missile is relative to you. I seem to recall having tested this at one point. The only warning you ever get is the slow strobe while the radar is searching, but you never get the fast strobe when the missile is launched.

I feel bad saying this, but it seems like Sprey has been living under a rock since Vietnam. Those arguments which were foolhardy at his time carry little weight forty to fifty years later. He seems to take into account none of the advances made in missile, electro-optical, infrared and radar sensing and identification technology, or the threat of integrated air defense systems. As you say, MB, what happens when you're detected over 100 miles away by an SA-10/20's radar? For that matter, the F-35 is being built with an electro-optical sensor in the nose akin to the F-14. Even during ACEVAL/AIMVAL, when the system was still a prototype, the then-TVSU was producing an average 8NM head-on visual identification against the tiny F-5. That system became the TCS that we all know and love, and I'm willing to bet that the -35's own EO pod will do better, having the benefit of more than 30 years of technological development (and if memory serves, does more than EO alone). But here's the thing...that pod, you see, it adds weight and complexity to the F-35, so I'm not sure if it's really worth it...

Sprey also lied about the ACEVAL/AIMVAL results in that document (F-86 to F-18), stating that the results of the tests (overall) were those of a specific sub-set of the tests and never considering the lopsided kill to loss ratios the F-14 and F-15 crews got in their favor at different points (in the region of 6:1 at times). I don't trust what he has to say with that test data, having spoken to and read the works of other folks who were directly involved and at different levels. History also does not back Sprey. Those same two fighters which he least supported wound up with exceptional kill to loss ratios in the real world vice simulations, and proved to be equally exceptional in the strike role (F-14, F-15E). The F-16 and F/A-18 became much more deadly AFTER so-called "gold plating" (better radar, AMRAAM missile, ECM, larger weapon compatibility overall) was added. As such, I don't give him much credibility with respect to the F-35.