ordway

Yes, it's from the scooter. Completely moved some instruments, some added...Lexx helped me enormously to figure it out...it was pushing all of us to our limits of the "uggknown". Here is the latest and almost finished version. I added more of the lead computing gunsight...which almost sends it correctly into the World War II era...1947 and more accurate landing gear controls. See if you can spot the differences.

Dassault MD-450 Ouragan cockpit (airframe No. 151 and later) almost finished. Referenced from an actual aircraft MD-450 manual and photographs. Yes, Those are actual radios in the instrument panel..aka. a Cessna! It includes a lead computing gunsight as per Wikipedia. Israeli Ouragans entered combat on 12 April 1956, shooting down an Egyptian Vampire. At the onset of the Suez Crisis on 29 October 1956, Ouragans shot down an additional four Vampires. Pilots found the Ouragan to be generally pleasant to fly and a very stable gun and rocket platform, although due to its short-coupled fuselage, the aircraft had a tendency to snap into a spin in tight turns. Wikipedia

Yes, this is fantastic. I never knew how to adjust height fields and never saw it before in a previous tutorial. This is so invaluable.

I understand that you can import two DEM files and make one map out of it (maybe it has to be four and then you make one map out of the area you want. Here are some notes I have from another post on it. IMPORT adjacent dem files: If you load TE with the extra large 1500km EAWEuro HFD file, this sets up TE for importing 1500km size regions from DEM files. This allows very nice expanded maps. My Korea TE screenshot on the first page here is 1500km. Thanks to the EAWEuro Team for making that large awsim Euro hfd file. Greenland, Iceland, UK at 1500 SF kilometers. Imported at 26W 78N. Requires 2 GTOPO30 DEM files. After starting Terrain Editor, File-Open the EAWEuro HFD file (not DEM file , my mistake sorry) which is a 1500km height map (although only partially used). This sets up Terrain Editor (TE) to successfully Import 1500km worth of gtopo30 data. Tiling takes a bit longer -- over twice the area to tile. The resulting map is all flyable. Flying from the south map edge to the north map edge (border set to 1000 meters in flightengine file) in FB-111A at 1000km/hr (539kts) true airspeed, it took 1.5 hours to cover the map, by the cockpit clock. Aussum! Example 1500km TE map....using the gtopo30 E100N40 DEM download. South Vietnam on upper left, to the extreme western tip of New Guinea on the lower-center right....(true map scale is 1500nm, but is scaled down in the sim to 1500km). Import coordinates 107E,15N ... 15N is the lowest you can go with this gtopo30 lattitude strip. Note the X=1500 and Y=1499 coordinates of mouse cursor (I had it in upper right of the blue ocean). It works!! Problem:: I must be doing something wrong. The generated planning map1 used by Kreelin's Mission Editor is skewed horribly, but you can export the height map instead as planning map 1, resize it to 750x750 so it appears normal in the Mission Editor. But the colours (in my case at least) are a horror show, but can be changed in paint program, or the brightness decreased to make it comfortably usable within the Mission Editor.

I need to eliminate the magnetic compass in the A-4B (move it out of the instrument panel). Firstly, this cockpit data.ini works for the MD-450 for me. However, it does not eliminate the magnetic compass. What do I need to do in addition to this? Here is my cockpit.ini. named MD-450_cockpit.ini that I tried to edit: [CockpitData] Directory=cockpit HUDMode=CAGED,AA,AG RippleQuantity=1,2 RippleInterval=60,100,140 [GunsightFront] HasGunsight=TRUE GunsightMilSize=50 GunsightName=F-100d_sight.tga LeadComputing=TRUE MinLeadRange=150 MaxLeadRange=600 DefaultLeadRange=300 MaxDepression=125 DefaultDepression=0 [CockpitSeat001] ModelName=MeteorF8_cockpit Offset=0.0,-0.08,-0.03 Position=0.0,4.437,0.658 ViewAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0 MaxYaw=155 MinYaw=-155 MaxPitch=90 MinPitchFront=-50 MinPitchRear=-20 LightRange=1.5 LightInnerConeAngle=43 LightOuterConeAngle=60 LightAngles=0.0,-35.0,0.0 DiffuseLightFactor=0.5 NightLightOn=0.25 NightLightColor=0.5,0.2,0.3 Gunsight=GunsightFront Instrument[001]=AirspeedIndicator Instrument[002]=Accelerometer Instrument[003]=RangeCounter Instrument[004]=Altimeter Instrument[005]=AtitudeIndicator Instrument[006]=VerticalVelocityIndica tor Instrument[007]=HSIWheel Instrument[008]=CourseArrow Instrument[009]=BearingMarker Instrument[010]=TotalFuelGauge Instrument[011]=Slipball Instrument[012]=TurnIndicator Instrument[013]=Tachometer Instrument[014]=ClockMinute Instrument[015]=ClockHour Instrument[016]=FireLight Instrument[017]=Reflection1 Instrument[018]=Reflection2 Instrument[019]=Mirror1 Instrument[020]=Mirror2 Instrument[021]=AoAIndexerSlow Instrument[022]=AoAIndexerOnSpeed Instrument[023]=AoAIndexerFast rem Instrument[024]=Compass <---- I remmed this out Instrument[024]=MachScale Instrument[025]=ClockSec Instrument[026]=ExhaustTemp Instrument[027]=ClimbDiveIndHoriz Instrument[028]=ClimbDiveInd Instrument[029]=MoveLabsKnob Instrument[030]=MoveFrame Instrument[031]=MoveCompass <----I added this [AirspeedIndicator] Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_speedometer MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=KNOTS Set[01].Position=0.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=31.5 Set[02].Value=80.0 Set[03].Position=75.0 Set[03].Value=100.0 Set[04].Position=133.5 Set[04].Value=150.0 Set[05].Position=188.0 Set[05].Value=200.0 Set[06].Position=279.5 Set[06].Value=400.0 Set[07].Position=341.0 Set[07].Value=600.0 [MachScale] Type=MACH_NUMBER_INDICATOR NodeName=mach wheel MovementType=ROTATION_Y Set[01].Position=0.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=-202.5 Set[02].Value=0.5 Set[03].Position=-269.0 Set[03].Value=0.8 Set[04].Position=-329.0 Set[04].Value=1.2 [Accelerometer] Type=ACCELEROMETER NodeName=needle_accel MovementType=ROTATION_Y Set[01].Position=-132.0 Set[01].Value=-6.0 Set[02].Position=0.0 Set[02].Value=1.0 Set[03].Position=202.0 Set[03].Value=10.0 [RangeCounter] Type=RANGE_INDICATOR CounterNodeFormat=distance_dig%remd MovementType=ANALOG_COUNTER ValueUnit=NM [Altimeter] Type=PRESSURE_ALTIMETER_2 NodeName=needle_alt CounterNodeFormat=alt_dig%d MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=FEET Set[01].Position=0.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=360.0 Set[02].Value=1000.0 [AtitudeIndicator] Type=ATTITUDE_DIRECTOR_INDICATOR NodeName=ADI sphere MovementType=ATTITUDE [VerticalVelocityIndicator] Type=VERTICAL_VELOCITY_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_nose_position MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=FPM Set[01].Position=-172.0 Set[01].Value=-6000.0 Set[02].Position=-132.0 Set[02].Value=-4000.0 Set[03].Position=-90.0 Set[03].Value=-2000.0 Set[04].Position=0.0 Set[04].Value=0.0 Set[05].Position=90.0 Set[05].Value=2000.0 Set[06].Position=132.0 Set[06].Value=4000.0 Set[07].Position=172.0 Set[07].Value=6000.0 [HSIWheel] Type=MAGNETIC_COMPASS NodeName=HSI_wheel MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=DEG Set[01].Position=00.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=-360.0 Set[02].Value=360.0 [CourseArrow] Type=COURSE_ARROW NodeName=HSI_CourseDeviation MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=DEG Set[01].Position=00.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=360.0 Set[02].Value=360.0 [bearingMarker] Type=BEARING_MARKER NodeName=HSI_CourseArrow MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=DEG Set[01].Position=00.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=360.0 Set[02].Value=360.0 [TotalFuelGauge] Type=TOTAL_FUEL_QUANTITY_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_fuel MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=LB Set[01].Position=-135.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=135.0 Set[02].Value=6000.0 [slipball] Type=SIDESLIP_VELOCITY_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_turn-slip_ball MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=DEG Set[01].Position=-15.0 Set[01].Value=-3.0 Set[02].Position=0.0 Set[02].Value=0.0 Set[03].Position=15.0 Set[03].Value=3.0 [TurnIndicator] Type=TURN_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_turn MovementType=ROTATION_Y ValueUnit=DEG Set[01].Position=-30.0 Set[01].Value=-10.0 Set[02].Position=0.0 Set[02].Value=0.0 Set[03].Position=30.0 Set[03].Value=10.0 [Tachometer] Type=TACHOMETER NodeName=needle_RPM MovementType=ROTATION_Y Set[01].Position=-66.5 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=-41.5 Set[02].Value=0.6 Set[03].Position=37.0 Set[03].Value=1.0 [FireLight] Type=ENGINE_FIRE_WARNING_LIGHT NodeName=warning_light_fire MovementType=LIGHT [Reflection1] Type=REFLECTION NodeName=canopy glass front [Reflection2] Type=REFLECTION NodeName=canopy glass rear [Mirror1] Type=MIRROR NodeName=mirror_right [Mirror2] Type=MIRROR NodeName=mirror_left [ClockHour] Type=CLOCK_HOUR NodeName=needle_clock_hour MovementType=ROTATION_Y Set[01].Position=0.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=360.0 Set[02].Value=12.0 [ClockMinute] Type=CLOCK_MINUTE NodeName=needle_clock_min MovementType=ROTATION_Y Set[01].Position=0.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=360.0 Set[02].Value=60.0 [ClockSec] Type=CLOCK_SECOND NodeName=needle_clock_sec MovementType=ROTATION_Y Set[01].Position=0.0 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=360.0 Set[02].Value=60.0 [AoAIndexerSlow] Type=ANGLE_OF_ATTACK_INDEXER NodeName=indexer_slow MovementType=LIGHT Set[01].Value=16.00 Set[02].Value=30.00 [AoAIndexerOnSpeed] Type=ANGLE_OF_ATTACK_INDEXER NodeName=indexer_on_speed MovementType=LIGHT Set[01].Value=13.87 Set[02].Value=16.80 [AoAIndexerFast] Type=ANGLE_OF_ATTACK_INDEXER NodeName=indexer_fast MovementType=LIGHT Set[01].Value=-10.0 Set[02].Value=14.67 rem[Compass] remType=MAGNETIC_COMPASS remNodeName=needle_compass remMovementType=ROTATION_Y remValueUnit=DEG remSet[01].Position=0.0 remSet[01].Value=0.0 remSet[02].Position=360.0 remSet[02].Value=360.0 [ExhaustTemp] Type=EXHAUST_GAS_TEMPERATURE_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_TEMP MovementType=ROTATION_Z Set[01].Position=57.0 Set[01].Value=200.0 Set[02].Position=0.0 Set[02].Value=600.0 Set[03].Position=-40.0 Set[03].Value=700.0 Set[04].Position=-62.0 Set[04].Value=800.0 [ClimbDiveIndHoriz] Type=VERTICAL_VELOCITY_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_climb-dive_horiz MovementType=ROTATION_Z ValueUnit=FPM Set[01].Position=21.0 Set[01].Value=-6000.0 Set[02].Position=14.0 Set[02].Value=-4000.0 Set[03].Position=7.0 Set[03].Value=-2000.0 Set[04].Position=0.0 Set[04].Value=0.0 Set[05].Position=-7.0 Set[05].Value=2000.0 Set[06].Position=-14.0 Set[06].Value=4000.0 Set[07].Position=-21.0 Set[07].Value=6000.0 [ClimbDiveInd] Type=SIDESLIP_VELOCITY_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_climb-dive_vert MovementType=ROTATION_Z ValueUnit=DEG Set[01].Position=20.0 Set[01].Value=-2.5 Set[02].Position=0.0 Set[02].Value=0.0 Set[03].Position=-20.0 Set[03].Value=2.5 REM HERE INSTRUMENTS ARE MOVED [MoveLabsKnob] Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR NodeName=LABS Knob MovementType=POSITION_Z Set[01].Position=-100 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=-99 Set[02].Value=1.0 [MoveFrame] Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR NodeName=canopy frame rear MovementType=POSITION_Z Set[01].Position=-100 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=-99 Set[02].Value=1.0 [MoveCompass] <------- I added this. Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR NodeName=needle_compass MovementType=POSITION_Z Set[01].Position=-100 Set[01].Value=0.0 Set[02].Position=-99 Set[02].Value=1.0 Any help appreciated. Thanks, Pitts2A Richard

Just to update any interested people. I need to start again almost from scratch on the Super Mystere cockpit...it was correctly pointed out to me by Wrench that Zur's F-86 Sabre cockpit is closer to the square, horizontally-instrument-aligned Super Mystere cockpit then to the round A-4 one. But the earlier Ouragan and Mystere cockpits seem closer (to me) to the A-4 cockpit with its more vertical placement instrument layout and roundness. I will try to make those as well, I have already started them as well. It will take until the end of March or so I would guess. "If you're going to do it, you might as well do it right".

Yes me too. Maybe with the new tutorial coming out, more people will be interested. One big problem seems to be the mountains which run down to the sea. This seems a real time-consumer to fix.

F-102 Delta Dagger...neat dogfighting opportunities in Vietnam...it really did engage in air combat in Vietnam...and lost! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-102_Delta_Dagger and cockpits for all those pesky French fighters like the Super Mystere, Mystere and Ouragan.

G R O A N. I think you are right Wrench. The Zur Sabre cockpit is closer to the B2 Super Mystere in both square shape and horizontal instrument layout than the A-4's. But the earlier round Mystere and Ouragon cockpits with their vertical attitude indicator over radio compass are closer to the A-4 in both verrical layout and round shape. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll rework all this. Oh boy, is this going to set me back some time...but you are right. This will probably mean two to three weeks to two months extra time to finish it...but it will be worth it in the long run. At least, I have worked out the instrument layouts and have completed lots of Mystere-Super Mystere-Ouragan specific items. I ordered four Ouragan-specific publications from Amazon and Ebay...hopefully some will have the pesky missing panel-between-the-pilot's legs and the right part of the instrument panel. I've got to figure out where they stuck those Ouragan radios. The Mystere at least also seems to have a neat horizontal ammo counter. Thanks again for the insights.

Hi Wrench, thanks for the inputs, as always. I also notice that in Ravenclaw's Ouragan pic, the front round A-4-like canopy struts and the round A-4- like instrument shield. Note too the same A-4 position of the attitude indicator above the magnetic compass compared to the Sabre's which is side by side I believe. A second issue is that according to my photos, bsically the Ouragon, Mystere and Super Mystere were evolutionary from each other and not revolutionary...they basically followed the same cockpit format. However, they did do a redesign on the Super Mystere-a more sqarish instrument hood. The Super Mystere also moved the radios from the front panel between the pilot's legs to the right side of the cockpit. The photos I have also show a defintite mish mash even between the same models of cockpit details..maybe as refits were done. All three models had black instrument panels and black attitude indicators (at least in my pics). It would also personally bother me to fly the Sabre with the Sabre cockpit and then fly the Ouragan with the same Sabre cockpit as they fought in at least one war together (India Pakistan). I too flew the Ouragan with the Sabre cockpit...and it's great! It has the real "seat of the pants" early jet feel. I personally removed lots of placards, buttons and switches from the Sabre pit to make it look more like an "Ouragan." For me with a former pilot's background, it still bugged me. Hmmm, why not? I might release a second alternative Ouragan cockpit out of the Sabre cockpit and get it public if I get permission...all I have to do is find it and clean it up a bit. It seems like there is a lot of interest in that beautiful cockpit. But knowing my being a rivet counter, I probably won't be satisfied until I spend a lot more time on it to make it ready for the public..!

Thanks Ravenclaw. Please help me out people.

Does anyone out there have pictures of the MD-450 Ouragan cockpit that they can share with me? I am making the MD-450 Ouragan cockpit concurrently with the Super Mystere IV B2 and Mystere IVA cockpit's. Thanks for any help. Pitts2A Richard

This meditation/sleep CD tape solved my sleeping problem four years ago and has worked ever since. It is called: "my present" *But two caveats*: 1) It took a month to start to work for me-then I would fall asleep almost instantly ever since-four years ago. 2) I have to keep it on so low a volume that I can't make out the words...it hits my subconscious without distracting me or waking me up. Many customer reviews seem to agree at Amazon. You can get it at Amazon.com A Google search got it as the first entry with these search words: "your present meditation tape" http://www.amazon.com/Your-Present-Half-Ho...e/dp/096507241X Good luck

Hmmm, this thread has started me digging up more and more details/photos' information that keep conflicting with eachother. I was was planning on releasing it this weekend...now maybe next week.

Time to recalculate again. Here is a huge cockpit photo (2736 x 3648) that shows the Super Mystere's fuel (I believe) being measured in units of "KGx 100". http://www.flickr.com/photos/17350451@N08/...508449/sizes/o/

Very interesting thread, Wrench...but oh well...I think you are right!!!!!! I have before me a color photo of a Mystere IV from the book "Cockpits of the Cold War" (Nijboer)...and shiver me timbers with a magnifying glass I see the words "height" "feet" and "knots" written on the instruments. As a clincher, there is a French conversion placard written on the sidewall with the English word "altitude" converting feet ("pieds") to meters! There's lots of "double" translations on equipment such as "Freins secours parking" for instance on the parking break. The gyro gunsight's ranging knob is listed in meters however (or "metres" as they write). For general information, I also see the words "traffic", "servo", "test", "cabine", "radio", "arret", "air", "panne", "tete, "poids"...whew, what a mish mash.

Thanks...hmmmm I've got some investigating to do. I did not know that you could change the values like that. I know that the Germans used the metric system at that time and during WW2 for airspeed and altitude...good question... did the French?

Yes Stratos. The sim's limitations mean that if I put the word "meters" on the altimeter, then the instrument would still be registering in feet and you could be flying at 30,000 "meters" (90,000 feet!) if the altimeter read "30,000" (that is a little too much, even for a French Super Mystere, n'est-ce pas ? However, if people want, I could probably write the words "meters" and "KPH" on the instruments anyway...any thoughts out there...I'm pretty easy.

Tired of flying the same, old standard A-4B cockpit in WOI for the Super Mystere? New Dassault Super Mystere cockpit almost finished, based on actual photos. The placards and instruments are in French (errr, as much as possible as it was correctly pointed out ). It has a working lead computing gyro gunsight as per the French Wiki.

Thanks Fougamagister for the feedback that the Dassault Ouragan had the lead computing gunsight. Thanks Wrench for the info on the aiming reticle...thats where I'm headed now!

I just read that putting an A-4B gunsight (which in standard form is *not* a lead computing air-air gunsight) on the MD-450 Ouragan is probably not historically correct and is artificially handicapping the fighter: From Wiki French: "Il est armé de quatre canons de 20 mm avec conduite de tir par collimateur gyroscopique, dans la lignée des réalisations anglaises de la Seconde guerre mondiale." WIKI http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Ouragan My translation on it is (one of my majors was French, but it does not mean that I am necessisarily correct of course): "It was armed with four 20 mm cannons which were directed by a gyroscopic computing sight in the line of the English world war two models." My Larousse dictionary states that the word collimateur is a word for an object that is a "sight". At the very least you have the words "guns directed by a gyroscope" to contend with. Also of course, the Israelis were notorious for upgrading equipment and techniques. Imagine that they were flying P-51Ds and advanced Spitfires with gyroscopic computing gunsights...and suddenly they were stuck with an aircraft (Ouragan) that "did not have a lead-computing gunsight"...guess what they would do in an eye blink? So to give the Ouragan a lead computing gunsight, you would just open up your MD-450 Ouragan cockpit.ini and replace these lines: [GunsightFront] HasGunsight=TRUE GunsightMilSize=100 GunsightName=A-4b_sight.tga MaxDepression=250 DefaultDepression=50 with the following lines: [GunsightFront] HasGunsight=TRUE GunsightMilSize=50 GunsightName=F-100d_sight.tga LeadComputing=TRUE MinLeadRange=182.88 MaxLeadRange=1828.8 DefaultLeadRange=300 MaxDepression=250 DefaultDepression=50 What is "true for the goose is also probably true for the gander"...and so the Mystere IV would also need to be upgraded to a lead computing gunsight.

Thanks! I thought it had something to do with Beowulf (Hmmm, that's English too). Errr, but to answer the question, I'm interested in the long term in making Slartibartfast proud...if no one else does first....errr probably about the same time that the hitchhiker finishes his galactic journey...whenever that is.

Okay, I no flap your jive in this hood. Explain Mr. Englishman please in American. I don't know much about flats, bonnets, bums, lifts, slarts, barts or fasts.

Yes, look at your PM. It looks like a bear to fix. Do you just hand tile it to fix it, or flatten down that area or something else? Thanks.