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G R O A N. I think you are right Wrench. The Zur Sabre cockpit is closer to the B2 Super Mystere in both square shape and horizontal instrument layout than the A-4's. But the earlier round Mystere and Ouragon cockpits with their vertical attitude indicator over radio compass are closer to the A-4 in both verrical layout and round shape. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll rework all this. Oh boy, is this going to set me back some time...but you are right. This will probably mean two to three weeks to two months extra time to finish it...but it will be worth it in the long run. At least, I have worked out the instrument layouts and have completed lots of Mystere-Super Mystere-Ouragan specific items. I ordered four Ouragan-specific publications from Amazon and Ebay...hopefully some will have the pesky missing panel-between-the-pilot's legs and the right part of the instrument panel. I've got to figure out where they stuck those Ouragan radios. The Mystere at least also seems to have a neat horizontal ammo counter. Thanks again for the insights.

Hi Wrench, thanks for the inputs, as always. I also notice that in Ravenclaw's Ouragan pic, the front round A-4-like canopy struts and the round A-4- like instrument shield. Note too the same A-4 position of the attitude indicator above the magnetic compass compared to the Sabre's which is side by side I believe. A second issue is that according to my photos, bsically the Ouragon, Mystere and Super Mystere were evolutionary from each other and not revolutionary...they basically followed the same cockpit format. However, they did do a redesign on the Super Mystere-a more sqarish instrument hood. The Super Mystere also moved the radios from the front panel between the pilot's legs to the right side of the cockpit. The photos I have also show a defintite mish mash even between the same models of cockpit details..maybe as refits were done. All three models had black instrument panels and black attitude indicators (at least in my pics). It would also personally bother me to fly the Sabre with the Sabre cockpit and then fly the Ouragan with the same Sabre cockpit as they fought in at least one war together (India Pakistan). I too flew the Ouragan with the Sabre cockpit...and it's great! It has the real "seat of the pants" early jet feel. I personally removed lots of placards, buttons and switches from the Sabre pit to make it look more like an "Ouragan." For me with a former pilot's background, it still bugged me. Hmmm, why not? I might release a second alternative Ouragan cockpit out of the Sabre cockpit and get it public if I get permission...all I have to do is find it and clean it up a bit. It seems like there is a lot of interest in that beautiful cockpit. But knowing my being a rivet counter, I probably won't be satisfied until I spend a lot more time on it to make it ready for the public..!

Thanks Ravenclaw. Please help me out people.

Does anyone out there have pictures of the MD-450 Ouragan cockpit that they can share with me? I am making the MD-450 Ouragan cockpit concurrently with the Super Mystere IV B2 and Mystere IVA cockpit's. Thanks for any help. Pitts2A Richard

This meditation/sleep CD tape solved my sleeping problem four years ago and has worked ever since. It is called: "my present" *But two caveats*: 1) It took a month to start to work for me-then I would fall asleep almost instantly ever since-four years ago. 2) I have to keep it on so low a volume that I can't make out the words...it hits my subconscious without distracting me or waking me up. Many customer reviews seem to agree at Amazon. You can get it at Amazon.com A Google search got it as the first entry with these search words: "your present meditation tape" http://www.amazon.com/Your-Present-Half-Ho...e/dp/096507241X Good luck

Hmmm, this thread has started me digging up more and more details/photos' information that keep conflicting with eachother. I was was planning on releasing it this weekend...now maybe next week.

Time to recalculate again. Here is a huge cockpit photo (2736 x 3648) that shows the Super Mystere's fuel (I believe) being measured in units of "KGx 100". http://www.flickr.com/photos/17350451@N08/...508449/sizes/o/

Very interesting thread, Wrench...but oh well...I think you are right!!!!!! I have before me a color photo of a Mystere IV from the book "Cockpits of the Cold War" (Nijboer)...and shiver me timbers with a magnifying glass I see the words "height" "feet" and "knots" written on the instruments. As a clincher, there is a French conversion placard written on the sidewall with the English word "altitude" converting feet ("pieds") to meters! There's lots of "double" translations on equipment such as "Freins secours parking" for instance on the parking break. The gyro gunsight's ranging knob is listed in meters however (or "metres" as they write). For general information, I also see the words "traffic", "servo", "test", "cabine", "radio", "arret", "air", "panne", "tete, "poids"...whew, what a mish mash.

Thanks...hmmmm I've got some investigating to do. I did not know that you could change the values like that. I know that the Germans used the metric system at that time and during WW2 for airspeed and altitude...good question... did the French?

Yes Stratos. The sim's limitations mean that if I put the word "meters" on the altimeter, then the instrument would still be registering in feet and you could be flying at 30,000 "meters" (90,000 feet!) if the altimeter read "30,000" (that is a little too much, even for a French Super Mystere, n'est-ce pas ? However, if people want, I could probably write the words "meters" and "KPH" on the instruments anyway...any thoughts out there...I'm pretty easy.

Tired of flying the same, old standard A-4B cockpit in WOI for the Super Mystere? New Dassault Super Mystere cockpit almost finished, based on actual photos. The placards and instruments are in French (errr, as much as possible as it was correctly pointed out ). It has a working lead computing gyro gunsight as per the French Wiki.

Thanks Fougamagister for the feedback that the Dassault Ouragan had the lead computing gunsight. Thanks Wrench for the info on the aiming reticle...thats where I'm headed now!

I just read that putting an A-4B gunsight (which in standard form is *not* a lead computing air-air gunsight) on the MD-450 Ouragan is probably not historically correct and is artificially handicapping the fighter: From Wiki French: "Il est armé de quatre canons de 20 mm avec conduite de tir par collimateur gyroscopique, dans la lignée des réalisations anglaises de la Seconde guerre mondiale." WIKI http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Ouragan My translation on it is (one of my majors was French, but it does not mean that I am necessisarily correct of course): "It was armed with four 20 mm cannons which were directed by a gyroscopic computing sight in the line of the English world war two models." My Larousse dictionary states that the word collimateur is a word for an object that is a "sight". At the very least you have the words "guns directed by a gyroscope" to contend with. Also of course, the Israelis were notorious for upgrading equipment and techniques. Imagine that they were flying P-51Ds and advanced Spitfires with gyroscopic computing gunsights...and suddenly they were stuck with an aircraft (Ouragan) that "did not have a lead-computing gunsight"...guess what they would do in an eye blink? So to give the Ouragan a lead computing gunsight, you would just open up your MD-450 Ouragan cockpit.ini and replace these lines: [GunsightFront] HasGunsight=TRUE GunsightMilSize=100 GunsightName=A-4b_sight.tga MaxDepression=250 DefaultDepression=50 with the following lines: [GunsightFront] HasGunsight=TRUE GunsightMilSize=50 GunsightName=F-100d_sight.tga LeadComputing=TRUE MinLeadRange=182.88 MaxLeadRange=1828.8 DefaultLeadRange=300 MaxDepression=250 DefaultDepression=50 What is "true for the goose is also probably true for the gander"...and so the Mystere IV would also need to be upgraded to a lead computing gunsight.

Thanks! I thought it had something to do with Beowulf (Hmmm, that's English too). Errr, but to answer the question, I'm interested in the long term in making Slartibartfast proud...if no one else does first....errr probably about the same time that the hitchhiker finishes his galactic journey...whenever that is.

Okay, I no flap your jive in this hood. Explain Mr. Englishman please in American. I don't know much about flats, bonnets, bums, lifts, slarts, barts or fasts.

Yes, look at your PM. It looks like a bear to fix. Do you just hand tile it to fix it, or flatten down that area or something else? Thanks.

When making fjords in TE (mountains that come right down to the ocean), what problems if any might I expect and how would I solve them. This is assuming a new build, using a DEM file. Thanks for any help.

I find the AI much more challenging..as are most reports in this thread. They beam you now when you fire a missile. Also gun kills are sharply harder for me to come by now. Remember also that the arab pilots were taught to fly by the Soviet method...ie. When you first enter the cockpit, stick your head in the radar screen and only remove it when you turn the engine off if I understand correctly. Also remember, that in real life, you meet newby pilots who just don't fly that well. Frankly, WOI is strongly worth the money. Secondly, if people don't buy it...they won't be made anymore.

I'm not knocking it because the Mirage factory came out with a super-semsitive flight model for the Mirage III on the hardest flight settings. However, I noticed that the WOI Mirage III behaves errrr a little more sluggishly in roll input and roll rate compared to the Mirage Factory's on the hardest flight model. Most Israeli accounts I read seem to have stated that the Mirage III was so hyper sensitive to control input that you could easily get into trouble. Anyone else notice this? I know that this does't really matter...just an observation.

I can't get gun kills easily any more on hard AI! They seem to slither around when I line then up...like they are using their rudders for slipping and skidding just out of the line of fire!

As always everyone, this information is very useful for me too... I would find it extremely helpful, if someone would post (when they find out) why the TE is crashing with these terrains. Thanks.

I haven't found any yet (for the F1)...and I've looked. I'm working on a historical SAAF F.1 skin for the eventual bushwars mod...unfortunately the skin is quite a ways off. Anyone?

Yes, Foxmonter's pit would be a good start. I would really be interested in modding the F-106 pit, someday. I don't have the source files. yet, either.

Thanks Capun and Wrench. Anyone else want to weigh in please addtionally on the 3D part or above? It all helps.