Geezer

Guess I was misinformed.

Thanks. Are you the guy that got landing gear to work in FE?

What FE code does SF contain?

I don't want to hijack this thread, but you guys are discussing stuff that I have some questions about - maybe you can answer them? I am thinking about a 1940 desert mod for FE2 that features biplanes as the main actors, but also has a few monoplanes. Years ago, I tested biplanes in the old FE1 and SF1, and FE1 had better handling characteristics for biplanes. Since returning to modding FE2, I have not had time to make the same comparisons. Is FE2 still better at simulating the handling characteristics of biplanes or has this difference gone away because TK improved the SF2 code? Also, I may have something to contribute. When I asked about retractable landing gear in FE, I found out that TK did not strip the code out of FE. Its still there, as the flaps and gear still work in autopilot, and another guy says you can restore manual control by adding command lines: I am not 100% sure but I think you can have landing gears in FE/FE2 but just adding a couple of command lines in the Control\Default.ini file I know there are other commands that are not enabled in FE/FE2 that I turned on in the past by just adding those command lines. I think these commands (and others) are not in the Default.ini FLAPS_DOWN=JOYSTICK02_BUTTON10 FLAPS_UP=JOYSTICK02_BUTTON09 AIRBRAKES_TOGGLE=JOYSTICK02_BUTTON21 WHEELBRAKES_TOGGLE=JOYSTICK02_BUTTON20 LANDING_GEARS_TOGGLE=JOYSTICK02_BUTTON22 If this information is correct, perhaps other functionality can be restored to FE2 by adding appropriate command lines? If so, then FE2 would seem to have some real advantages. Many files have not been locked, as in SF2, and - if using the same size terrain artwork - FE2's smaller terrain tiles display more detail than SF2's larger terrain tiles.

Interesting. I fooled around with FE1 and SF1 some years ago when there was less of a difference in file organization. Since returning to TW sims, I have not done the same with the newer editions - I did not realize there was THAT much difference between FE2 and SF2.

Bump maps in TW sims are not an option for me. I have an older edition of Max (R9) - TK's export plugin (with bump map) only works for newer versions of Max. I have thought about larger ground tile artwork for SF2. If I understand correctly, SF tiles are 1000x1000 meters, while FE tiles are smaller - 500x500 meters. If the same size artwork is applied to the two different tiles, then FE has twice the pixel density and thus, twice the visual detail. Stated another way, SF requires 2048x2048 tile artwork to look the same as FE with 1024x1024 tile artwork. Has anyone ever tested an SF map with REALLY large tiles, to determine the effect on frame rates? Another possibility: use several different sizes of artwork to reduce impact on the game engine. This may not work in every situation, but in the 1940-42 desert war most of the action occurred in a narrow strip along the coast line, extending south into the desert roughly 100 km (or so). REALLY large tile art could be used along the coast, but - to reduce impact on performance - smaller tiles could be used further inland (where nothing happened). Bear in mind that 70 years ago, that part of the world was howling wilderness once you moved away from the coastal strip. Deep in the desert, there were no oil fields, pipelines, or agricultural experiments like there are today. With nothing to attack, the average gamer would only fly deep into the desert if he were sight-seeing, and then discover there is nothing to see!

I have no idea what else may be required, as this concept is still in its infancy. The 1940 desert war was a transition war - it combined equipment and doctrine from both WW1 and WW2. Consequently, the mod falls in a gray area between FE2 and SF2 because the last biplanes share the skies with early monoplanes. SF2 has the most game features, but is dedicated to high altitude jets while FE2 has fewer game features but is dedicated to low altitude biplanes. Note that Wrench and his band of merry propheads have done an amazing job of adapting SF2 to WW2 monoplanes. Neither is a perfect fit, but I am going with FE2 for now because it can display more detailed terrain - important for an air war fought at low altitude. If the mod concept ever progresses to "phase 2" - the better known desert war of 1941-43 - than it might make more sense to transition to SF2? Time will tell....... EDIT: Another reason for going with FE2 is that FE was specifically developed to model the complex dynamics of biplanes, not swept wing jets (like SF). Biplanes are the stars of the 1940 show, not monoplanes. There is only one monoplane fighter required for the first six months of the desert war, the Hawker Hurricane.

Yep, the popular name was Jimmy. The famous Jeep got it's popular name because it's official designation was GP, for General Purpose. The interesting thing about the desert war is that there were almost no trees or buildings in that part of 1940 Libya - it was empty desert. This could simplify map building as there were very few villages or towns? It will also add more emphasis to the vehicles and guns on the ground because that's all there is for gamers to attack, besides a couple of small harbors.

I'll be tied up with the WW1 objects for a while, so there is no hurry. I would like to experiment with lots of fender trash, as extra gear hung all over the vehicles is common in most of the old photos. Dunno if it is feasible, but maybe we can test a few to assess impact on frame rates? I can add Cinzano to the "liberated" umbrella, and maybe a veddy Brrrritish tea pot (by the front wheel).

I was experimenting with panel edges that were raised in 3D above the rest of the aircraft surface. I gave up - it was too much work. After deleting the edges, I made better progress because I did not have to wrestle with weird shadows caused by the raised panels.

Progress shots of skins.

Wrench: As you know, I am slowly making a bunch of new WW1 ground/terrain objects for the FE guys. If you are willing to wait a while, I could also make some Mediterranean objects for your map upgrade. Shot below is of an old example - the roof tiles are now more varied. Plus, I have a BOATLOAD of WW2 vehicles that could be used. Sample below is overkill, where I was attempting to simulate the rag-tag, gypsy caravan look seen in so many of the desert war photos. Only the US managed to standardize on a few vehicle types - the other combatants used dozens of different vehicles.

Found the SF2 North African map - thanks. Finished mapping the Hurricane MK1 and have been applying the baseline colors. Interesting thing about the 1940 desert war is that the classic RAF dark earth/mid stone/azure blue camo was not specified 'til mid-1941. So, most RAF aircraft in the first 6-12 months flew with euro-camo. Many older aircraft, originally sent to Africa in the pre-war silver finish, were field painted with improvised colors.

Didn't know there was one. Thanks for the tip - I'll look for it.

Yes. The models will function in both FE2 and SF2. When Italy declared war on Britain (June, 1940), the first WW1-style dogfights took place over the Libyan/Egyptian border, mostly along the coast. I originally thought the game map need only be 200 miles wide, but then realized it could be used for both the short biplane airwar of 1940 and the later 1941-42 desert war that most gamers know about. So I am now thinking about a map 400 miles wide, stretching from El Agheila to El Alamein, that could be used in both FE2 and SF2. Shot below shows original idea, with Italian airfields in green and British airfields in blue. The Italians mostly operated from established bases with facilities, while the British frequently operated from "forward landing grounds" - big flat spots in the desert with temporary facilities mounted on trucks.