RAF_Louvert

. Thanks gordohk. And thanks also to you Dej. Yes, my library has been growing; and no, I've not stopped by to share each new edition with my comrades here, (no doubt I'll be paying for that in the mess tonight). To Sir Patrick Gordon Taylor's work I must confess I'd not heard of it, or if I have I've completely forgotten about it. It is however now on my list of 'must haves' and I will be on the hunt. A big thumb's up for the tip Dej. .

. What a great story! Thanks for sharing Dej. And thanks as well Olham for those additional links. Really fascinating stuff. .

. A very good point Jim, WWI bomb raids amounted to nearly nothing when compared to those in the next war to end all wars. And I also never read a report from the German side that indicated anything other than "Ve zaw ze enemy bombers coming und ve despatched our fighters to interzept az fast az pozzible". .

. Yuppers von Baur, Keelser for five months before being shipped across the pond. Your mention of the C-130 reminds me that we boys would, on occasion, go to the end of the runway, lay on our backs with our heads towards the traffic, and wait for those monsters to come roaring right over our faces as they lifted off. I seem to recall that beer was involved in this practice as well. So were you a paratrooper v B, or were you jumping from them for sport. .

. Thanks Olham, I'm already having a good time with it. .

. We were all sworn to secrecy by DM. Thirty whacks with a very large mackerel for anyone breaking the silence. .

. Well good for Deutschmark, he's been working on this pet for many moons! Keep in mind it is primarily meant to be an online MP game that can be played on lower end machines with minimal lag time issues, (very low impact on your resources). What little bit of stick time I had in this some time back indicated that it does exactly what he was hoping it would do. Now, some folks need to set up a few servers and see if they can't get some online competition going. .

. As many of you know I have, for a long time, been reading and collecting books on WWI aviation and in particular 1st editions, (when I can find affordable examples of such). V.M. Yeates' suburb classic "Winged Victory" is one that has eluded me. On the rare occasions I've run across a 1st of this tome it is either so expensive I'd need to take out a loan to purchase it, or so beat up and falling apart that it's not worth bringing home. Well, this last weekend the search ended when I happened upon a beautiful, minty example of the 1934 Smith and Haas 1st Edition for $75. It is gorgeous in it's dark blue covers with small silver aeroplane silhouette on the front. No damage of any kind and not a hint of mustiness or cigarette smoke odor. Simply a beautiful book which I am already well into and thoroughly enjoying, (despite having read this work numerous times in years past). Me so happy! And with this latest addition my WWI library is now as follows: Personal Narratives, Biographies, and Novels: "Ace of the Iron Cross", Ernst Udet, (1970 English translation, 1st Edition) "Ace With One Eye: The Story of ‘Mick’ Mannock VC", Frederick Oughton, (1963 1st Edition) "A Flying Fighter", E.M. Roberts, (1918 1st Edition) "Airmen O' War", Boyd Cable, (1918 1st Edition) "All Quiet on the Western Front", Erich Remarque, (1929 English Edition) "An Airman Marches", Harold Balfour, (Vintage Aviation Library Edition) "An Airman's Outings", Alan 'Contact' Bott, (1917 1st Edition) "An Aviator's Field-Book", Oswald Boelcke, English translation, (1917 1st Edition) "An Explorer in the Air Service", Hiram Bingham, (1920 1st Edition) "A Poet of the Air", Jack Morris Wright, (1918 1st Edition) "A Rattle of Pebbles: The First World War Diaries Of Two Canadian Airmen", Brereton Greenhous, (1987 1st Edition) "Beyond the Tumult", Barry Winchester, (1971 1st Edition) "Black Fokker Leader", Peter Kilduff, (2007 1st Edition) "Cavalry of the Clouds", Alan 'Contact' Bott, (1918 1st Edition) "Cloud Country", Jimmie Mattern, (1936 Pure Oil 1st Edition) 3-volume set "Days on the Wing", Willy Coppens, English translation, (1931 1st Edition) "Death in the Air", William Heinemann, (1933 Edition) (famous faked aerial photos) "Double-Decker C.666", Haupt Heydemarck, English translation, (1931 1st Edition) "Eastern Nights and Flights: A Record of Oriental Adventure", Alan 'Contact' Bott, (1920 1st Edition) "En L'air!", Bert Hall, (1918 1st Edition) "Extracts From the Letters of George Clark Moseley", (1923 1st Edition) "Fighting the Flying Circus", Edward Rickenbacker, (1919 1st Edition) "Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps", James McCudden, (1918 1st Edition) "Flying Corps Headquarters 1914-1918", Maurice Baring, (1968 1st Edition with supplementary notes) "Flying for France", James McConnell, (1917 1st Edition) "Flying Minnows", VEE Roger, (1935 1st Edition) "Flying Section 17", Haupt Heydemarck, English translation, (1934 1st Edition) "Go Get 'Em!", William Wellman, (1918 1st Edition) "Guynemer, Knight of the Air", Henry Bordeaux, English translation, (1918 1st Edition) "Heaven High, Hell Deep", Norman Archibald, (1935 Signed 1st Edition) "High Adventure", James Norman Hall, (1918 1st Edition) "Horses Don’t Fly: A Memoir of World War I", Frederick Libby, (2000 1st US Edition) "I Flew For the Lafayette Escadrille", Edwin C. Parsons, (1962 1st Edition) "Immelmann: The Eagle of Lille", Franz Immelmann, English translation, (1930 1st Edition) "In the Clouds Above Bagdad", J.E. Tennant, (1920 1st Edition) "In the Teeth of the Wind: The Story of a Naval Pilot on the Western Front 1916-1918", C.P.O. Bartlett, (1994 1st Edition) "Into The Blue", Norman MacMillan, (1929 1st Edition) "Jagdstaffel 356", M.E. Kahnert, (1939 1st English Edition) "Kitchener's Mob", James Norman Hall, (1916 1st Edition) "Letters From a Flying Officer", Rothsay Stuart Wortley, (1928 1st Edition) "Letters From a World War I Aviator", Josiah P. Rowe Jr., (1987 Edition) "Malaula! The Battle Cry of Jasta 17", Julius Buckler, (2007 1st Edition) "Memories of World War 1", William Mitchell, (1960 Edition) "My Experiences in the World War", John J. Pershing, (1931 1st Edition) 2-volume set "Night Bombing with the Bedouins", Robert Reece, (Battery Press Edition) "Night Raiders of the Air", A.R. Kingsford, (1939 Edition) "Nocturne Militaire", Elliot White Springs, (1934 Edition) "No Parachute", Arthur Gould Lee, (1970 1st US printing) "Open Cockpit: A Pilot of the Royal Flying Corps", Arthur Gould Lee, (1969 1st Edition) "Rovers of the Night Sky", W.J. 'Night-Hawk' Harvey, (Vintage Aviation Library Edition) "Sagittarius Rising", Cecil Lewis, (1936 1st US Edition) "Stepchild Pilot", Joseph Doerflinger, (1959 1st Edition) "That’s My Bloody Plane: The World War I experiences of Major Cecil Montgomery-Moore, as told to Peter Kilduff", (1975 1st Edition) "The Balloon Buster: Frank Luke of Arizona", Norman S. Hall, (1928 1st Edition) "The Diary of a P.B.O.* * poor bloody observer", Frank J. Shrive, (1981 1st Edition) "The Escaping Club", A.J. Evans, (1936 Edition) "The Flying Poilu", Marcel Nadaud, English translation (1918 1st Edition) "The Red Knight of Germany", Floyd Gibbons, (1927 1st Edition) "The Spider Web", T.D. Hallam (P.I.X.), (1979 Edition) "The Way of the Eagle", Charles Biddle, (1919 1st Edition) "Up And At 'Em", Harold Hartney, (1940 1st Edition) "Victor Chapman’s Letters From France", John Jay Chapman, (1917 1st Edition, signed by his father) "War Birds; Diary of an Unknown Aviator", Elliot White Springs, (1926 1st Edition) "War Flying in Macedonia", Haupt Heydemarck, English translation, (1936 1st Edition) "Whom The Gods Love", Lewis C. Merrill, (1953 1st Edition) "Wind in the Wires", Duncan Grinnell-Milne, (1918 1st Edition) "Winged Peace", William Bishop, (1940 1st Edition) "Winged Victory", V.M. Yeates, (1934 1st US Edition) "Winged Warfare", William Bishop, (1918 1st Edition) "With the Earth Beneath", A.R. Kingsford, (1936 1st Edition) "With the Flying Squadron", Harold Rosher, (1916 1st Edition) History, Reference, and General Interest Books: "A World Undone: The Story of the Great War 1914 to 1918", G.J. Meyer, (2006 Edition) "Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War", Bruce Robertson, (1964 Edition) "Aircraft of World War I, 1914-1918", Jack Herris & Bob Pearson, (2010 1st Edition) "Aircraft of Today", Charles Turner, (1917 1st Edition) "Aviation in Canada 1917-18", Alan Sullivan, (1919 1st Edition) "Bristol F2B Fighter: King of Two-Seaters", Chaz Bowyer, (1985 1st Edition) "Capronis, Farmans, and Sias: U.S. Army Aviation Training and Combat in Italy With Fiorello LaGuardia 1917-1918 ", Jack B. Hilliard, (2006 1st Edition) "Colliers New Photographic History of the World War", (1917 Edition) "Color Profiles of World War 1 Combat Planes", Giorgio Apostolo, (1974 1st Edition) "Decisive Air Battles of the First World War", Arch Whitehouse, (1963 1st Edition) "Fighter Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War", W.M. Lamberton, (1964 Edition) "Flying The Old Planes", Frank Tallman, (1973 Edition) "Fragments From France", Bruce Bairnsfather, (1917 1st Edition) (Great War cartoons by the master of the genre) "German Air Power in World War 1", John H. Morrow, Jr., (1982 1st Edition) "Heroes of Aviation", Laurence La Tourette Driggs, (1919 1st Edition) "High Flew the Falcons", Herbert Molloy Mason Jr., (1965 1st Edition) "High in the Empty Blue", Alex Revell, (1995 1st Edition with author's signature card) "Historic Airships", Rupert Holland, (1928 1st Edition) "History and Rhymes of the Lost Battalion", L.C. McCollum, (1929 Edition) "History of the World War", Francis March, (1918 1st Edition) "History of the Great World War", Rolt-Wheeler and Drinker, (1919 1st Edition) "Italian Aces of World War I and their Aircraft", Roberto Gentilli, Antonio Iozzi, Paolo Varriale, (2003 1st Edition) "Land and Water" Magazine, (entire April through September 1917 series, hard bound, ex-library copy) "Ludendorff's Own Story", Erich Ludendorff, (1919 1st Edition) 2-volume set "Marine Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War", Heinz J. Nowarra, (1960 Edition) "Naval Aviation in World War I", Naval Aviation News, (1969 1st Edition) "National Geographic" Magazine, (entire 1918 series, hard bound, ex-library copy) "New England Aviators 1914-1918: Their Portraits and Their Records", (1919-20 1st Edition) 2-volume set "Reconnaissance & Bomber Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War", W.M. Lamberton, (1962 Edition) "Rhymes of a Red Cross Man", Robert W. Service, (1916 1st Edition) "Schlachtflieger! Germany and the Origins of Air/Ground Support 1916-1918", Rick Duiven and Dan-San Abbott, (2006 1st Edition) "Source Records of the Great War", (1923 1st Edition) 7-volume set "The Air Defence of Britain 1914-1918", Christopher Cole and E.F. Cheeseman, (1984 1st Edition) "The Fighting Triplanes", Evan Hadingham, (1969 1st Edition) "The First War Planes", William Barrett, (1960 Edition) (the one that started it all for me) "The Great Air War", Aaron Norman, (1968 Edition) "The Great War", George H. Allen, (1919 1st Edition) 5-volume set "The Great War in the Air", Edgar Middleton, (1920 1st Edition) 4-volume set "The Imperial Russian Air Service, Famous Pilots and Aircraft of World War One", Alan Durkota, (1996 1st Edition) "The Lafayette Flying Corps", by James Hall and Charles Nordhoff, (1964 Kennikat Press limited edition two-volume set) "The People's War Book and Atlas", (1920 1st Edition, signed by Lt. Col. William A. Bishop) "The Sky On Fire: The First Battle of Britain", Raymond H. Fredette, (1966 1st Edition) "The Story of a North Sea Air Station", C.F. Snowden Gamble, (1967 Edition with supplementary notes) "The United States in the Great War", Willis Abbot, (1919 1st Edition) "The U.S. Air Service in World War I", Maurer Maurer, (1978 1st Edition) 4-volume set "The War in the Air", Raleigh and Jones, (1st Edition) 9-volume set including map cases, (originally in the military library at Whitehall; my personal Jewel of the Crown) "The Western Front from the Air", Nicholas C. Watkis, (1999 1st Edition) "Time-Life Epic of Flight", 23-volume set, (not old and not strictly WWI but still a lot of good info and photos) "True Stories of the Great War", (1918 1st Edition) 6-volume set "U.S. Official Pictures of the World War", Moore and Russell, (1924 1st Edition) 4-volume set "1920 World Book Encyclopedia", (entire set with addendums, great for cross-referencing in a contemporary context) Instructional Books: "Aeroplane Construction and Operation", John Rathbun, (1918 1st Edition) "English-French War Guide for Americans in France", Eugene Maloubier, (1918 Edition) "Learning to Fly in the U.S. Army", E.N. Fales, (1917 1st Edition) "Lewis Machine Gun 'Airplane Type' Service and Operation Manual", (1918 Edition) "Manual Of Rigging Notes Technical Data", (1918, possible reprint) "Practical Flying", W.G. McMinnies, (1918 1st Edition) "The Art of Reconnaissance", David Henderson, (1916 1st Edition) "Technical Notes: Royal Flying Corps", (1916 1st Edition) "Science of Pre-Flight Aeronautics", (1942 Edition) "Self-Help for the Citizen Soldier", Moss and Stewart, (1915 1st Edition) .

. He he, I can about imagine that pic Olham. And oh my God yes the brews we drank! How I dearly loved sitting in the biergartens and pubs and ale houses and enjoying those wonderful elixers. I recall this one magical evening in a little ratskeller in Bremgarten where ... well ... I'll just leave it at magical. .

. I know exactly what you mean mein freund. And I was 8 weeks in basic and 5 months in tech school where I was trained as a Morse radio intercept operator. Then it was on to various locations around Europe for both ground-based and airborne operations. Who is that man behind the Foster Grants? .

. von Baur, I went to college for two years before I joined the Air Force so I did not get down to Lackland until fall of '74. Man, do I remember Lackland. Rainbow, rainbow don't be blue, Rainbow, rainbow don't be blue, My recruiter screwed me too. My recruiter screwed me too. Rainbow, rainbow don't look down, Rainbow, rainbow don't look down, Ain't no discharge on the ground, Ain't no discharge on the ground. Sound off One Two Sound off Three Four Bring it on home now. One Two Three Four One Two ... THREE FOUR! .

. Thanks for the B-Day wishes Gents, much appreciated. And I remember 21 as if it were only 38 years ago. .

. This is a wonderful old document and I've studied it a few times in the past. I just wish I read French with any kind of proficiency. Thanks for sharing Olham. .

. No ace up my sleeve per se Robert, just watching to see what others here would contribute. Creaghorn has hit upon one of the very essential points in answering the question, which is that the German Air Service fought the entire war outnumbered when one considers the figures along the entire Western Front. However, by amassing units into specific AOs as needed for specific operations they were able to create a temporary superiority in that area. And while they had fewer pilots overall the pilots they had tended to be more experienced, and more cautious, because of this ongoing reassignment. They chose their fights carefully, tending to attack only when odds were as much in their favour as possible, and while Allied pilots ofttime saw this behavior as peculiar or timid, (or even cowardly), it was far from it. Another fact to consider is that jastas which were assigned to defend and patrol a certain area along the front did just that, and did not shag after incoming Allied bombers but rather left them to the AA and the defenders stationed farther back behind the lines. Hauksbee's observation about the prevailing winds is also spot on and again points to the German pilots using every advantage they had in an effort to swing the engagement to their advantage. Why battle against the wind and your enemy during said enemy's ingress when you can simply wait until they are attempting to return home at which point the wind would be in your favour. .

Well of course Robert, that should nearly go without saying. To the question, think along the lines of organization ... and caution. .

. Oooo, and some fresh almond scones to go along with it. .

. Come on folks, I've only given a small portion of the answer to Duke's question here in hopes of getting the conversation rolling. There is much more to it than this. .

. Duke, it wasn't so much that they were holding off the attack as it was the amount of time it took them to respond and reach the Allied bombers. German units stationed deep in their own territory for the purpose of protection were plagued with the same lack of 'early warning' systems that all the air forces in WWI suffered with, and because the attacking IAF bombers were coming in somewhere between 12,000' and 20,000' it took the German fighters so long to reach them that the bombers were normally on their return leg by the time the intercept was made. .

. Actually Olham, it wasn't an "either/or" situation for them. They each had their own kites with standard guns AND another bus at their disposal with the cannon fitted to it. I believe it was Guynemer who noted how gawd-awful it was to reload the beast in flight because as soon as you opened the breech block the pressure in the barrel, (due to the forward motion of the plane), filled the cockpit with smoke and gas and damned near chocked you out while temporarily blinding you at the same time. Now also imagine at that same time you're trying to get rid of the hot empty shell that is conveniently located down below your knees and then load a fresh round. Oh yes, and you have to keep tabs on your flying and your SA too. Good fun. .

. What an outstanding project! I'd love to go to that museum and see it for myself. Olham, to your pondering on the effectiveness of the cannons on those SPADs: I believe Guynemer had 2 confirmed kills with the 37mm while Fonck had 11 confirmed with it. I know there were a few others but I can't recall the figures on those at the moment. .

. Allow me to chime in on this one Gents. Ahistorical: Agreed. Anachronistic: Completely. Fun: Absolutely! A great way to relieve the stresses of the day by diving in on some poor souls schlepping along in a B/R bus and blasting them into virtual Valhalla before they know what hit 'em. BTW, it's my B-Day so drinks are on me! .

.

No worries Robert, I knew you were joking Sir. None-the-less I honestly had thought about doing a version of the new medals for our OFF forums here. .

. Robert, I would love to make a WWI version of these honours and considered doing just that. But as Dej has so rightly pointed out, how would we ever come to a consensus as to which kite should be in the cross hairs. And Eric is being far too modest about these new baubles as he had an active hand in them as well with his valuable insight, suggestions, and feedback. Pol, apologies for this sidetrack from your initial post. I am waiting impatiently for the soon-to-be release of WOFF. .

. Gents, those are the new forum member medals to replace the old icons you currently see under your avatars/photos in the left hand column. If you pop over to any of the other CA forums you will see them displayed. You might wish to send a quick note to Erik and let him know that these are not displaying yet in our forums here. Hmmmm, I wonder who created all these new medals? Now back to your regularly scheduled topic. .