stingray77

@ Eject: in the SF2 series, the basic game-data is saved under the Programs on the C-drive (and remains there unaltered). At first start up, the game (itself) creates an additional folder in the Vista's user-drive under "saved games" (we call it the Mods-folder). There go your (personal) pilots and campaign data. Additinal to this, THIS is the folder where to put your mods (therefore the name). Two big benefits: THAT's the folder to fiddle around with (modding) as the original data remain untouched, and THAT's the folder to make back-ups of the latest well-working environment. (It's - well - quite manageable; my current back-up has a size of 5.7 GB with the SF2V, the Expansion Pack 2.0 with the patches and some few aircraft-skins applied.) Hope this helps... Back to my topic: I did not have too much time to test yesterday evening, but in the Mods-folder I already found "CargoShip", "Tanker" and "CV-63" under the Objects/GroundObjects - so I did not need to create these folders anew. (They already contained the "basic"-INIs like "Tanker.INI" for example. The CV-63-folder also contained a sub-folder "Grey1"...) So I just clipped my changed XXXDATA.INIs from "Objects", put them into the respective folders and checked. Game started, NAVY Campaign started (to check the carrier's deleted smoke first) - and CTD'd when loading the mission data (at around 80% loaded). So THAT was not it - guess I had some conflicting data in there somewhere... (Although I only put those three DATA.INIs from one folder into those sub-folders!? ) I deleted my Mods folder and had to restore from latest back-up. I need to re-check (maybe leave the CV-63 untouched at first), what might have caused this. But for the moment, I do not have a solution... Any further input?

Thanks for your hint - something new to learn... But doesn't this only cut down the size of the plume? I would like to reduce its intensity - like "make it lighter"... Any idea where to find that Russian freighter?

In my SF2V I found the ship's exhaust smoke too dark/intense/thick. (It even shone through mist and clouds - especially visible when approaching the aircraft carrier in heavy weather, when the plume of smoke can be seen long before the carrier itself...) I learnt that the detail for this is the line "ExhaustEmitterName=ShipSmoke" in the ships' "DATA.INI" Deleting the "ShipSmoke" makes the smoke go away (meeting my personal preference a lot more). Two questions about this: 1) the aircrafts' exhaust smoke is absolutely great (and far less thick) - if THAT could be "exported" to be used as the ships' smoke, too, it would look awesome, I guess. But I think this is a totally different source of data (like flowing vertically and things like that). Any idea how to make use of that one, anyhow? 2) I already found several ships emitting that thick smoke in the Mods-folder, that I could change easily. By means of an extraction tool I found some more in the CAT-files within the "basic" folder - and I just learnt, that applying a change on them needs the FULL folder (like "Tanker" or "CV-63") - including the changed DATA.INI! - to be put into the Mods-folder... (Will try that soon.) But Eric (eburger68) told me of some TYPES.INI to change the "Russian Freighter" which should be somewhere in the terrains... Can somebody direct me to where I might find that one? Checked the ObjectsXXX.CAT-folders and the Terrains.CAT already without success. Thanks for your ideas. Oliver

Thanks - I will try again and post if successful - or ask if not!

(To let others learn, maybe, let's stick to English... ) Thanks for confirming, that the original CAT remains as is - I already thought that the game might check the Mods-folder first and "ignore" the original files then... Now I KNOW! In my case I changed some .INIs for the Oiltankers and Cargoships. Some of them - TANKER i.e. - do not already exist in the mods; do I need to create the full "Tanker-folder" (including the changed .INI) under Mods' Ground Objects then? (Might be a good try.) Simply adding the changed .INI to Objects or Ground Objects did not apply my changes, yet.

Hi! With the "CatPack-tool" I have been able to extract ObjectDataXXX.CAT-files from the original TW-data-set. I changed a few entries (just deleted the ShipSmoke from some craft) and now want to put the changed data back... But where do I put it? The tool's instructions don't go into detail exactly where to put the data afterwards... I already tried saving the "new" (i.e. CargoShipDATA.INI) data directly in the Mod-folder under Objects - no use. Same under Objects/Ground Objects. From the instructions I understand to leave the original data-set unchanged - but how can a change be applied if the original data remain the same? Anyone to tell me, where to put those changed files and the logics behind, maybe? Thanks a lot. Oliver

Thanks a BIG LOT, Eric! From the utility's instructions I (theoretically) understand how to extract the "ObjectDataXXX.CAT" now. And I will find the Tanker's and Russian Freighter's (and maybe/probably the Carrier's) .INIs in the .CATs somewhere? I guess changing the data works just like the above (simply deleting the "ShipSmoke" behind the "ExhaustEmitterName="), right? What's still not that clear to me, is where to put the changed data. The instructions say: "put it in the correct folder in the special mod folders". Does that mean, that if I found the original DATA.INI in a file called "ObjectData006.CAT", I create a folder called "ObjectData006" in the Mods-folder and put my changed DATA.INI in there? Or do I put it into "Objects" (directly - not into "Ground Objects" or sth.), because the original "ObjectData006.CAT" was found inside an "Objects"-folder? Or will I see a proper location (like "Objects/Ground Objects/Tanker") after I extracted the .CAT and simply have to put the changed .INI to the same position? The last sounds most likely/"best" to me - I will have to try this, I guess... And last: the original "ObjectData006.CAT" remains in the "base" ThirdWire- (not Mods-) folder, as we are only tweaking a copy. So by adding another file with the same name in the Mods, the game looks there FIRST when starting the game and ignores the original data? Just to help me understand... Thanks again! And sorry for discussing this modding here - pls. accept my apologies. Oliver

Eric, I had no problem with the following: Sampan1 Sampan2 Sampan3 Supply SmallCargoShip and CargoShip That lit up the "smoky skies" already somewhat. But in the "Tanker"-file there is no DATA.INI that I could change. Neither did I find the Russian Freighters somewhere - not in the Ground Objects and not in the Terrains!? Where can I find those? Guess I still need your help...

Both flyable if you add one of the Expansion Packs from the Download area - which is a great addition anyway! (Forgot to mention: I'm speaking of the SF2V!)

Okay - that's a lot more than I have done so far. (Up to now, I have only been "user" - no "modder".) But to understand (and maybe try myself): key is to go into the named DATA.INI and TYPES.INI files (by means of notepad or similar, I guess) and re-edit those lines. I assume there is a figure right next to the "ExhaustEmitterName=ShipSmoke" which needs to be set from "1" to "0" or so? Or should one fully delete the "ShipSmoke" (or the whole line)? Oh, and is this one possible to perform for the carrier's smoke as well? I guess no, or is it in a file in the mods-folder, too? Sorry for this - maybe - dumb question (or that all this info might be very well seen from the "Knowledgebase" - so, sorry for my try to cut corners)... Then again your hint sounds quite easy to "start with this kind of modding"... Thanks for the info with the "Flaks", Eric . Seeing your "360°-enthusiasm", I already figured you would include it. Oliver

addition to my last post: I re-read the ReadMe a couple of times and finally got the idea behind those "optionals"... Great to let us have some ways to "screw" a bit ourselves (although I prefer to leave it the "standard" you defined - that CAN'T be wrong)... Then another question: do you think of implementing the "Flak Levels" into the "Gold", too? I guess it would fit there quite nicely. (Another one of those "screws"...) Finally: I was "testing" a little yesterday evening again (always sounds like work, what always is BIG FUN). I already wrote about something similar and had to learn, there's not much to do about this - so I don't have high hopes, there might be a "fix" for this - but you never know... I was looking for the added obejects (cranes, ships) around the harbour areas. (Which are many and add a lot of air to the scenery, by the way. ) The ships stood out from a distance, because all of them (well, except for one if I recall correctly) wore a dark black plume of smoke on their stacks. The smoke was much darker/more intense than the hazy air around (same as the original carrier the Navy campaign-missions start from). As there doesn't seem to be a way to "tone down" the darkness (as I had to learn before), is there maybe a way to detach/delete the smoke from the ships (including the original carrier)? Except for some old steamships (whose smoke looks and "flows" differently anyway) the ships smoke is hardly seen in reality, anyhow... Maybe some of you knows a solution to this.

Hi Eric thanks for your immediate reply. It clarifies a lot! Oliver

I added the FP3 right yesterday - and (from the very few things I've been able to try out already) again I can say: it's GREAT! ...So good to find shadows added to the F-104 (and I will not start complaining over the OV-10 again... )! Anyhow I have a few things/questions, that I'm sure you will be able to answer easily: - in the FP3 I did not spot any differences to the same data from FPs1&2 of the M60A1, MiG-17(A) and MiG-17PF; ARE they the same? So you might skip the comment's in the "Optional Installation"-section, as it's already been written and implemented in the previous FPs... Am I right, or what's my error in reasoning? - from the readme I understand that the following are inculded in the FP3 by default: custom exhaust emitters (instead of the original "dirty") BUFFs (included) campaigns high detail tree complexity small/realistically sized trees original TW sun and stars by Cellinsky ("WideSky") and the additional data included in the FP3 allow for changing / reverting those back, right? Great then to allow for those "roll-back-availabilities"! - (I guess I already asked this - so sorry for asking again) what will the "Gold" finally be? Some add-on to put on top of the FPs or some "full version" of XP2 to drop into a "virgin" SF2V-Mod-folder? (The latter would be quite clean, right - only a VERY large package...) I'm asking because I found some data (some sounds, if I recall right) that were in the "objects"-folder directly and not in one the "aircraft"-folders... I would like to have a tidy environment; so my idea was to cut all that "roll-back-data" to some "back-up" and keep my SF-folder as lean as possible. I appreciate your comments. And thanks again for the tremendeous work and effort putting all this together! We owe you - big-time... Oliver

Wow!!!!!

Cooool - I'm waiting breathlessly!!!

Since a couple of days ago I am unable to upload pictures. Next to the "Attach This File" there's a field saying "Used 3.14MB of your 3MB global upload quota (Max. single file size: 1000MB)". I thought there might have been a time-related limit or something, so after a while those 3.14MB might "vanish" again, but nothing... So, what do I need to do to "clear the cache" again? Then (another one) how do I get ahead from "Junior Member"-status? Obviously not by just posting and posting... Where do I find "rules" for those things?

I've found another (small) item: the F-104 casts only pilot/ejection seat- and loads-shadows... I would not bother too much - just to add to the issues' list!

Phantom Reflections, Mike Mc Carthy (Combat Flying Vietnam - memoirs) Cheating Death, George J Marrett (Combat Air Rescues Vietnam and Laos - memoirs) Vietnam Air War Debrief, Robert F Dorr / Chris Bishop (colorful compilation of history and aircraft used in Vietnam) the other side: MiGs over North Vietnam, Roger Boniface (North Vietnam's People's Air Force in Combat) all non-fiction - all GREAT!

Yesterday I flew my first gunship-mission with a "Shadow" - guys (whoever of you created THIS detail), you did a tremendous job! The effects, tracers bowing downwards, their explosions on the ground - and then the shadows the explosions cast - just plain awesome!!! I just need to learn to fly even curves to make the hits line up... Again and again I get amazed of HOW MUCH detail you put into creating (importing things already there into) that XP...

Thanks for clarifying, Eric. I only copied Fubar's tips over here, so I cannot reply much contentswise... But "good to hear" that those things have already been taken care of. And on my yesterday evening's mission I did not find the smoke tooooo disturbing anyhow... So, I am patiently waiting for the "gold" to come out soon.....

Fubar512 gave a hint on the "smoke"-issue. I copy it here: If the "intense black smoke" that you're referring to, is visible through clouds and haze, then all I can suggest is that you check to see if it's attendent effect file has a positive z-buffer value, that can be reset to zero. You can also try the fix for "trees showing through clouds" in the knowledge base, and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then you're out of luck, as it would then be a global graphics engine issue, that only only the original game developer (Third Wire) can fix.

The smoke and trees issue refers to the thread "SF2V Air & Ground Expansion Pack v. 2.0 - Beta" in "Mission and Campaign Building" - so I'll copy your tips and include them there.... Thanks

Easy, pal. At the time of my writing here, I was still seeing if this could be ironed out some way - just some German "Gründlichkeit" to check every possible solution. (I "only wanted to see how far the horse might be able to limp...", okay?) Your reply to my post in the "Mods and Skinning" then terminated this item for me ("now I, too, see the horse is dead") - so no offense! How'zit going, Pavel?

What I meant was the "older" version of the OV-10A data before the FixPack... (With only the loads casting shadows.) I still have them in a BackUp somewhere... But as I saw that those lines are very rarely seen in flight (and seeing your "no-go's" above) , I "decided" to no longer care too much about that prob. THANKS for addressing to this anyway!

Okay, that sounds as if you have deleted/corrupted some "sounds"-files (well, I can hardly imagine how installing the XP might have done that itself - but don't worry)....... Did you have any other things modded before? AddOn aircraft, -skins or something? If not, getting you up and running shouldn't be too hard: - Just clip the whole "ThirdWire"-folder from under "Saved Games" (I guess you are using Vista) and put it some other place like a newly created folder called "SF2V Back Up" (or whatever you like to name it) under "Downloads" for example. - Then start the "virgin" SF2V once again. The prog will create a new (and virgin) "ThirdWire"-folder under your "Saved Games" again. * - Just to make sure: check that you have sounds in the game. - See where the game put the "sounds" (if the "virgin" creates "sounds" at all) - after the XP the "sounds" need to be on the same level again! - Then apply the XP once again; check that the new/added "sounds" are on the same level as before. * You should be fine then! After a check you can delete the folder saved the first (your first BackUp with the missing sounds)... IF you have had any other mods (you feel you need again), you will have to go through installing them all anew * - but if I were you, I would do this before the XP to allow for the XP overwriting old data with new/better ones! * indicates where/when you should copy BackUps (named like "virgin Third Wire SF2V", "SF2V with modded planes", "SF2V with XP", "SF2V with XP and FixPack 1 and 2".......) to some other place. Check that things were running properly, so you can always go back to that level, if you "crash" sth. ... Your "Pilots", "Campaigns" and "Settings"-data (not sure about the lattest, but they ought to be there someplace) can/should always be copied from the latest running version to keep you data current! Keep in mind that changes on "Campaigns" might/will destroy your latest campaign-effort forcing you to start anew... You can keep as many BackUps (of older versions) as you like, but as a rule, you should always keep one of the last version running! I myself keep a BackUp of the current and the one version before, in case I stumble over sth. in the latest version - then I can always check back against the version before (just exchange the contents of the BackUp with the current)... Hope I did not tell you all the things, you already know........ So, just see this as a "no-brainer"... Crossing fingers this will get you in the air again!