pcpilot

Remind me NOT to get in a dogfight with you SD...I HATE getting waxed...

WOW! Exodus, betcha never figured to get this kinda responce eh? LOL! Simmers take their hobby SERIOUS! :shock: Good discussion fellas...

Your advice is sound Dagger. Everytime I try to get in a turning fight with a mig, I get toasted becuase he can turn inside me and hit me with his guns at close range. The F4 is a high energy aircraft which loses it quickly in a turn. This brings the plane down very quickly to the migs speed, allowing him to use his guns at close range. I read were the F4 pilots hated the Mig-19 more than the -21 becuse the -21's missles werent that great of a threat and it was a high energy aircraft also that suffered some of the same problems. Were as the -19 was a nimble and fast opponent who's advantage lay in the turning dogfight. Thats what it was designed to do. American fighters have traditionally been heavier, powerfully engined, and massive firepower. They are not generally good, manueverable dogfighters. Though of course, there are exceptions to the rule. The F6F was a good opponent for the Zero. The F-86 could take on the Mig-15. The F-16 Falcon and F-18 Hornet are no slouches in a dogfight either. American fighters tend to be oreinted more to Tactics like Claire Chennaults' Boom and Zoom tactics against the Japs in China. Thats why it always amazes me all those who prohibit BnZ tactics online like in IL2. They dont know their history or tactics when they do that. They are removing a legitamate Military tactic. I persoanlly think the same for so called "vulching". If you dont like being vulched, then get off yur butt, devise some good response tactics, and take your airspace back. Ask the Germans near the end of their war if they hated vulching? Of course they did. Now ask them if it was effective and cut down on American and Brit losses. Of course it did. But I digress... Of course, in all things there are exceptions. The F4 is no different. I have been looking all nite nearly for a diagram of the dogfight that Randy Cunningham got into with a North Vietnamese pilot named Toon who had 13 kills to his credit flying against American bombers. This was a dogfight of close range manuever that lasted nearly 5 minutes finally ending in Toon's death and Cunningham being made an Ace. The diagram I have in my Time-Life books on Vietnam is absolutely fascinating, I wish I could post it here but dont have a scanner. What an amazing job cunningham did besting a pilot (Toon) and aircraft (Mig-19) at their own game, and he did it using the F4's advantage in the vertical using the F4's strong climb ability. When you look at the diagram you can see it CAN be done and you wonder how the heck WAS it done? Obviously by a very good NAVY fighter jock. If your that good, you can do it too. If you aint, learn to BnZ first, then maybe learn to dogfight the F4. Here is an excellent article on the dogfighting F4 and R. Cunningham...http://www.donhollway.com/writing/topgun/topgun.html A Damn good story... motor mouth out...

That is one nice skin Denzil. Rat is doing a really nice job. Ill be using it fershure! When'll it get done if ya have an idea? These are all hires?

Gotta have that editor. I love to make mah own battles and campaigns.

This is a VERY COOL shot! When I was a Boatswainsmate on the USS Independance back in 77-79, we would put on an airshow everytime we hit a foreign port. The finale was a low flying Phantom about 30-50 feet off the carriers deck make a pass at the speed of this aircraft. They often told us they were going supersonic and to plug our ears. Occasionally we would here the BOOM as the plane worked on his approach. The Flight Deck Boss would call out the approach of the Phantom and as everyone watched, that dot would grow with surprising speed. As it approached you couldnt hear a thing either from the crowd or the aircraft. But I destinctly remember this "halo" around the craft everytime. I always thought it was vapor as you could see what appeared to be vapor sweeping back off the wings also. Anyway, the aircraft would pass overhead and suddenly WHAM! BOOM! It was always a hoot when the people who werent paying attention hit the deck, hehehe. Thought they were gonna die, hehehe. I still chuckle. Loved those pilots, they had a pair of brass ones I tell ya and loved a joke. If they werent looking back chucklin Ill be surprised. Good ole VF-102 Diamondbacks. Good ole Indy...ahhh the memories...hehehe.

I would suggest getting the AI more involved. The wingman is nearly useless though on occasion they do nail a mig or two. I havent seen one yet attack a ground target I've ordered attacked. I also followed a mig in a circle for probably 6 or 7 times last nite, he didnt try anything else in the way of manuevers. (I did however get one on my tail that wouldnt let go till he apparently ran outta fuel and turned for home.) The ship models need a serious overhaul as does the water. The wakes are not very good in my opinion, looking very flat and local, (no trailing wake), and the ships' models are pretty basic, they can be a lot better. How about warships in this game, I havent seen any yet. I like to see an eject "sequence" and be able to toggle the engines on in midflight if this was possible for these aircraft. (I know they mostly used a machine on ground to start them, what was it called?) There is no way to cycle thru fuel tanks either. (Does this game use the droptank fuel first before the main tanks?)

Thanks for the tutorial Dagger. I finally read the ENTIRE manual yesterday at work, (hehehe), and with your tutorial, its all starting to come into focus. I found one thing I was doing wrong was trying to use "T" to cycle thru radar targets when I needed to use "Home". "T" is for visual targets...duh... ...its hard being me, espesially early in the morning before coffee...

I have to agree with Seawolf, the game has its problems. But Third Wire has made known their intention to fix a great deal of these things, plus some other enhancements. The modding community is probably the best I've seen, not only in skill but also enthusiasm. Dont let my negative sounding thread earlier bug you too much or mislead you, I DO like this game. Oh, and something I noticed yesterday...I had a Mig on my butt that wouldnt let go. Sucker kept chewin away on my bisquits. I decide to head down as fast as I can in AB to the deck. Once I got there, I was pleased to see that the terrain, while a bit bland, DID actually have low hills, and at one point a rather long valley. Mind you, there was no mountains, but there was terrain undulations and some hills. It was pretty cool. By the way, I managed to finally evade that sucker, I think he ran outta gas. So I pull up, throttle way down, head for base...and ran outta gas about a couple miles short of the runway...rats! :)

Thanks Jeff, I had a feeling there might be an "ingame" method for checking framerates.

Thanks SD, it seems to work really well. If it is correct, my framerates are pretty poor, only around 10-15. Isnt there a Radeon tweaking utility somewhere? I seem to recall seeing one in the forums somewhere. Ill hafta look and post it here if I find it.

Cool! Thanks Dagger for doin it and Jeff for hosting it.

LOL, I did the same thing, hehehe.

After flying this game for a couple days for a total of about 8 hours, I gotta say the damage modeling is pretty poor. Using IL2 as a benchmark at a score of 10, this game is around a 3, maybe a 4. I get damaged by a missle. Afew holes, a missing airleron and elevator, and some smoke was as good as it got. I have seen the exact same damage on several screens now. Not very different. I did a dive into the ground at a steep angle. All I got was this 2D explosion that quickly disapeered. No hole in the ground or even a burn mark. No debris flying thru the air, nothing else to tell me I was toast. I did a belly landing just now that showed no ill effects to the aircraft or ground. It reminded me of an arcade game. Look, I dont mean to flame. Im stateing what I have seen in this game. In my opinion, it doesnt compare to present simulations that were out a year or more ago, not just in damage modeling, but also a number of key areas too. Like TCP-IP. I havent been able to join a game yet. All I get is a black screen and Im forced to cntrl/alt/del. This happens consistantly in Gamespy and Hyperlobby. And to not have a direct TCP-IP connection ability in a game today cuts deeply into its playability. I read a post were TK said they didnt even want to add TCP-IP unless we all voiced a desire for it! Our only way to connect is thru gamespy or Hyperlobby. Hyperlobby is cool, I have used it for IL2 but so far I cant get it to work even with the SF beta release. Besides, a direct TCP-IP connection gets rid of the program like Gamespy or HL running in the background and frees more resources, right? You gotta be kiddin TK...add the TCP-IP like the other games or you just wont compete. Lo-MAC comes out and this game will be forgotten, despite even the period aircraft that so many have waited for like me. The aircraft look and feel pretty good. They are what keeps this thing afloat in my opinion. Espesially as the modders can do their thing and enhance playability. I do however have a problem with control sometimes. To be on the verge of a stall and start to roll almost uncontrollably at 250+ knots doesnt sound too authentic, though I may be mistaken here. I dont know fellas. I feel like this game is still half done. It doesnt feel like a simulation. It feels like an arcade game, even set at max everything. I dont mean to grumble but momma always told me to, "speak my mind so you dont go out and smack somebody in a fit of temper." So I guess I vented. There, that wasnt so bad now was it?

Fly just a little slower. When you notice green glowing balls flyin past yur canopy, you found some ground targets. Matter of fact, right then might be a good time to look behind you. If you see a pillar of smoke headin yur way, you've found MORE targets... just pullin yur leg... though I might add the aeriel scouts in Vietnam did just that in their loaches... :0)

I gotta say after playin with this sim the last couple days that I really do like it. Im really glad to finally see a 60's sim, its been eagerly awaited by me and a lot of others. This sim does a lot to satisfy that demand. Like everyone else, I can see its "Potential" however, not its complete realization. TK, you boys have done a pretty darn nice job here. But you aint done yet. Now put down that pizza and coke and get to crackin...

I have a Radeon 8500 64 MB card. Is there an ingame keystroke to view framerates? Or must I use a utility of some sort? Thanks.

Viper, I havent had any probs yet with the autopilot, It seems to work fine. I think DK might be right about your stick, try recalibrating it.

I fianlly got the game two days ago and Im still struggling with it the radar so any tutorial will be much appreciated Dagger, thanks. I did fianlly manage to nail a Mig-21 and two F4's with Sparrows, (whoops), with it set to boresight. Would you beleive I still won an airmedal??!!? :roll:

SHIFT ESCAPE will eject you. However, when you eject, it ends the scenario unlike other sims...no parachute, nothing. I would have loved to see the canopy release, an ejection seat fire off, then the chute deploy. Maybe have a little movie of it that plays when you eject if they cant model it in the game. Then just have the pilot modeled in the sim in a parachute drifting down. How about it TK? Is it possible? It would be a really nice touch and make it more like a simulation...

You know I tried hyper lobby last nite and SFP1 wasnt listed as a lobby, or anything. Dont know the version off hand I have but just got it a couple weeks ago, should be the newest. Is there some procedure for getting hooked up on HL in a game that I am missing? Played IL2 on it no prob. Also havent been able to join a game in Gamespy. I was able to host one apparently but unsure if anyone was able to join or not, no one ever did.

Hi Dagger, according to the manual on page 35 under defensive avionics, the "Decoy Dispenser" is only available on the F-4E Phantom II in later scenarios. It apparently has both flares and chaff. I cannot find anything on the drag chute other than the key command to deploy it. Nothing about what aircraft have it, what max. speed for deploying it, nothing. I do know from past reading and photos that the F-4E and the F-104 starfighter had them. Dont know about the other aircraft. Perhaps a test landing in each aircraft, get below 100 knots and attempt a deployment...

YEAH BABY! Go FATES! Hehehe...

Well, I finally got the game and it seems so far to be pretty good. I like the graphics for the most part though I flew the plane into the ground to see what would happen and the resulting explosion didnt do anything for me, it was pretty weak. The game has loaded and played pretty well so far with the only slow framerates were while I was in the multiplayer screen (!)... go figure. I also can see that I need a very careful hand becuase the FM's are touchy, needing constant attention. But the thing that bothers me most right now is the instant action. I dont expect it to be entirely like IL2 mind you but that setup is outstanding, where you choose the aircraft you and your enemy fly, how many, etc. I suppose I will be able to do that when the editor comes out. But being able to do it quickly without spending what may be a LOT of time building a mission is definately worth something, at least to me. Maybe this can be added later eh? With maps of vietnam, the Middle East, even Russia, etc. perhaps. This adds a tremendous amount of replayability.

Do you target ground targets the same as air targets in this game? I understand the 1960's systems were pretty basic. Still havent got it yet but will Friday...only 8 more hours...come on...come on...