Blast Radius!

[fireengineer]

As you can tell I am paying some attention to level bombing these days, and what I have observed is that the 'Lethal' zone of bomb blasts is very small. For instance i landed a 1000lb bomb beside some airfeild fueltanks only to see them re-appear out of the dust intact. I live in Northern Ireland and I know exactly what a 1000lb bomb can do, I think what we are dropping are grenades in comparison! A better example is a 7Kt nuke detonated beside some fuel tanks, the shockwave encompassed all the tanks and some hangars but no damage to anything. This is all wrong, is there some way to increase the lethality of these firecrackers we use? If not then the only viable weapons are guided and those are not fully supported, this is a paradox.

[+Dave]

As you can tell I am paying some attention to level bombing these days, and what I have observed is that the 'Lethal' zone of bomb blasts is very small. For instance i landed a 1000lb bomb beside some airfeild fueltanks only to see them re-appear out of the dust intact. I live in Northern Ireland and I know exactly what a 1000lb bomb can do, I think what we are dropping are grenades in comparison! A better example is a 7Kt nuke detonated beside some fuel tanks, the shockwave encompassed all the tanks and some hangars but no damage to anything. This is all wrong, is there some way to increase the lethality of these firecrackers we use? If not then the only viable weapons are guided and those are not fully supported, this is a paradox.

 

 

Guided weps are supported. Use the wep editor to increase the blast radius to your liking. Not as hard as you think...nukes are another thing though. We are still trying to figure out why they will destroy an entire base in one mission but not the next. Again playing with the wep editor is your best choice. These are old and known issues.

[Guest Saganuay82]

Post up your best setting when your done. I'm sure we call all benefit from putting a bomb on a wall of a hangar and not destroying the truck beside it.

[fireengineer]

Guided weps are supported. Use the wep editor to increase the blast radius to your liking. Not as hard as you think...nukes are another thing though. We are still trying to figure out why they will destroy an entire base in one mission but not the next. Again playing with the wep editor is your best choice. These are old and known issues.

As far as I can see the wep editor does not have a 'destruction' setting. The nearest setting is weight of explosive material,but a 3000lb bomb does as much of as little damage as a 250lb unit. I dont have much faith in the weight setting, unless you are referring to a different setting?

My issue with guided weps is that I cannot takeoff and hit a hangar with my LGB. I can only hit pre-selected targets which are not mobile, or any mobile targets.

[+Dave]

My issue with guided weps is that I cannot takeoff and hit a hangar with my LGB. I can only hit pre-selected targets which are not mobile, or any mobile targets.

 

Yeah that issue I do hate, but that is why I carry dumbs bombs as well. A good compromise.

 

Explosive mass is what you want to mod.

[Caesar]

Hey guys,

 

Just to throw in my 2 cents on nukes:

 

I have made 2 nuclear bombs that are quite dangerous, but they get the job done pretty darn well; usually leveling an entire base if you drop them on the center; the caveat is that one of them I'm yet to find a safe altitude to drop from, and it kills everything in the map, the other has to be dropped from at least ~8000 feet to be safe.

 

The first, so far survivable one, based on the MK84 2000lb bomb (named "Hey Paul!" after a classic moment of the movie American Psycho) has an explosive mass of 2e+010, exploding with nuclear fusion. The Hey Paul! works pretty well, but for some reason or another has a hard time taking out runways.

 

The second one, known simply as The Mother____er (guess the missing word) is named such because I'm still trying to find its safe drop, and its power is entirely unneccissary: at first rating at 2e+024, I've since moved it down to 1e+015. It was really made just to see how much I could destroy with one bomb, and one of these two models I calculated to have 11023000mT of explosive power. Of course, these map-stoppers kind of take the fun out of it in the first place, it's more the tension of can I escape the blast myself!? "fun". But they, or at least Hey Paul! gets the job done well with near-misses, or relatively far misses for that matter.

 

That's some of my findings.

 

Vale,

-"Caesar"

[fireengineer]

Hey guys,

 

Just to throw in my 2 cents on nukes:

 

I have made 2 nuclear bombs that are quite dangerous, but they get the job done pretty darn well; usually leveling an entire base if you drop them on the center; the caveat is that one of them I'm yet to find a safe altitude to drop from, and it kills everything in the map, the other has to be dropped from at least ~8000 feet to be safe.

 

The first, so far survivable one, based on the MK84 2000lb bomb (named "Hey Paul!" after a classic moment of the movie American Psycho) has an explosive mass of 2e+010, exploding with nuclear fusion. The Hey Paul! works pretty well, but for some reason or another has a hard time taking out runways.

 

The second one, known simply as The Mother____er (guess the missing word) is named such because I'm still trying to find its safe drop, and its power is entirely unneccissary: at first rating at 2e+024, I've since moved it down to 1e+015. It was really made just to see how much I could destroy with one bomb, and one of these two models I calculated to have 11023000mT of explosive power. Of course, these map-stoppers kind of take the fun out of it in the first place, it's more the tension of can I escape the blast myself!? "fun". But they, or at least Hey Paul! gets the job done well with near-misses, or relatively far misses for that matter.

 

That's some of my findings.

 

Vale,

-"Caesar"

 

This is exactly what freefall nukes should do. Allways has been dodgy delivering a freefall special weapon and I think it dam well should take out a whole chunck of map, thats what a real one would do.

However it does seem that the formula governing explosive yeild is way out on the low side if it takes a quadrillion Mt weapon to do the job of a 20Kt. I will try quadrupling the explosive content of some conventional weapons and see if this helps.

 

Good to know tho that others are experiencing the same as me.

 

Keep up the work on the nukes CAESAR and if you get a reasonably stable ubit post her up, dont want a really safe one, that would be dull.

[fireengineer]

I have just finished adjusting the M118 and have settled on a good explosive quantity. 66Kt of HE will give nice secondary hits and destroy any vechiles in the immediate area. To be honest it looks like someone dropped a zero or two when doing the algo for these weapons.

This would appear to be a factor of 110x more HE per weapon but it works well. A 3000lb bomb hitting the ground beside a non hardened hanger, so close the crater goes under the edge of the building but does not destroy it is just wrong. The mod let me blow up the infamous fuel tank with a miss of about 150'.

Edited April 8, 2006 by fireengineer

[Caesar]

Hey again,

 

Well, if you want the weapon data for the "Hey Paul!" bomb, here it is.

 

[WeaponData851]

TypeName=Mk84MOD2

FullName=Hey Paul!

ModelName=Mk84LD

Mass=983.580017

Diameter=0.456000

Length=3.754000

AttachmentType=NATO,USAF,USN

NationName=USN

StartYear=1964

EndYear=2040

Availability=3

BaseQuantity=200

Exported=FALSE

ExportStartYear=0

ExportAvailability=0

WeaponDataType=0

RailLaunched=FALSE

Retarded=FALSE

Streamlined=TRUE

FinStabilized=TRUE

SpinStabilized=FALSE

EffectClassName=NukeExplosionEffect

DragAreaMultiplier=1.000000

WarheadType=15

Explosives=20000000000.000000

FusingDistance=0.000000

ClusterBomblets=0

ClusterDispersion=0.000000

GuidanceType=0

Accuracy=0.000000

MaxTurnRate=0.000000

MaxLaunchG=0.000000

LaunchReliability=0.000000

ArmingTime=0.000000

SeekerFOV=0.000000

SeekerTrackRate=0.000000

SeekerRange=0.000000

ReleaseAnimationID=-1

 

I flew some more tests with it and have found the following to be true:

 

1.) Yes, it will level an entire base if it is even near being "on-target" *see 5

2.) The minimum safe altitude is above 10,000 feet; at least 15K, I'd say

3.) It helps to have it on a fighter or fighter attack plane, because of the afterburners. You can drop it, go full burner, and get the hell outta the area. Exact radius is unknown, but in the A-6, if I wasn't high enough, it'd just blow me out of the sky being right over the area.

4.) The name is entirely esoteric, it's just funny to see "Hey Paul! selected" or "The Mother____er selected"

5.) For some reason or another it does not like to blow up runways, only standing structures and weapons and low-flying planes/anything below about 15,000 feet...maybe higher...

 

If anyone wants to try The MF, just change the above power to 2e+024, though a more practical number would be 1e+015 (in the ini would be 999999986991104.000000), and of course, the name, signifying that you don't care that you're going to level a country and kill yourself, your wingmen, and all friendly and enemy planes in the process...still haven't found the safe height for that one. Also, if you wanted to make it more realistic, you should probably model it on the B-58's pod or something, rather than a 2000-pound Mk-84.

 

Hope this helps with the nuke situation!

 

Vale,

-"Caesar"

Edited April 8, 2006 by Caesar

[fireengineer]

These are a series of shots showing a near miss of a stick of 18 M118 3000lb bombs on some benzine tanks.Bomb run was at 30,000ft 333kts in a B47-A was at 30,000ft 333kts in a B47-A

 

HELL YEAH, THATS MORE LIKE IT!

 

As you can see below, Ivan did not know what hit him.

Edited April 8, 2006 by fireengineer

[HrntFixr]

That's what i'm talkin bout!

 

 

I just ate a boatload of hot wings.......... stay 10K away for the "Blast Radius" in about an hour!!!!

[fireengineer]

That's what i'm talkin bout!

I just ate a boatload of hot wings.......... stay 10K away for the "Blast Radius" in about an hour!!!!

Bio weapons your speciality then.... LOL

[Caesar]

Sweet shots, man. What'd you end up setting the explosive mass to?

[fireengineer]

Sweet shots, man. What'd you end up setting the explosive mass to?

For the M118 it is 66 thousand kilos of HE! That Sounds crazy but it works. It now performs like a real M118 would, ie it kills things that are 'near' it. I just miltiply the original mass of the weapon by 110 and add that in. Have done the M117 MK81 MK82 MK83 MK84. They all perform well especially the MK84's.

[Lexx_Luthor]

About the larger deployed nukes -- they all used parachute descents to give time for the bomber to get away, the parachute slowing the bomb's fall. I don't even know if SF offers para bombs.

This made me look some stuff up...

 

~> http://www.strategic-air-command.com/weapo..._bomb_chart.htm

 

Apparently, anything to be dropped from high altitude (back in 1950s) with a yield above 1 megaton had one or more parachutes. More recent bombs -- Mk-43 -- designed for more modern low level drops and with somewhat lower yields (1MT at max) had a parachute.

 

I don't know if I'd call the 5 experimental liquid fuel Mike (Mk-16) bombs truly "deployed" or not, and they don't say here that they had parachutes. This was the first H-bomb.

 

 

For the conventional bombs...I may be very wrong, but blast radius may vary with the cube root of explosive mass, all else being equal. This is for conventional bombs. For example -- if this is true -- to double the blast radius, you must use 8 times the explosive mass. To get 10 times the blast radius, you must use 10x10x10 or a thousand times the explosive mass.

 

Now, damage to a target, a ship for example, when hit is a different story, since the blast volume effect is inside the target, so I imagine damage to vary directly with explosive mass. Blast radius is different, as the explosive effects are filling all 3D space until a small portion of it meets the target -- most of the blast is wasted. That filling of 3D space is what may cause blast radius to vary with cube root of explosive mass, assuming I am not making this all up. Exploding inside the target -- all the explosive mass goes into damage, nothing wasted. Just some ideas I had.

[Caesar]

Ah, thanks fireengineer, I'll give those values a shot.

 

Lexx: there are retarded bombs in SF, my mod nukes were based on bombs retarded by parachute (I can't remember which bombs they were though); I should probably remodel my nukes to be retarded for slower planes like the A-6. As for the reason as to why the bombs work the way they do, your guess is as good as mine, better, actually...seeing as I have none...at all.

 

Vale,

-"Caesar"

[Lexx_Luthor]

INTERESTING !!!

 

SF has retarded bombs, and the descent can be modded? This is great, thanks.

 

btw...the weapons ini files take exponential notation. 1e+15 or 1E+15 ...

 

Effects files ini's also. TK is da Man!

 

Ceaser::

If anyone wants to try The MF, just change the above power to 2e+024, though a more practical number would be 1e+015 (in the ini would be 999999986991104.000000),

[fireengineer]

INTERESTING !!!

 

SF has retarded bombs, and the descent can be modded? This is great, thanks.

 

btw...the weapons ini files take exponential notation. 1e+15 or 1E+15 ...

 

Effects files ini's also. TK is da Man!

 

Ceaser::

The BLU-82 has a proper parachute

[ezlead]

To all you Nuke-Droppin pilots out there. Back in the 70's we practiced the "over the shoulder toss" method of nuke delivery in the A-6. It would let you deliver a 5 or 10 Kt nuke with a 90+ survivability rate.

You would go in low and fast. Fly past the target,do a 4g pull up, at approx. 95-100 degrees of nose up the weapon would release. Then do a roll to a half cuban eight ,finish going over the top ,then go balls out down the other side of the eight, back down to low and fast ,exiting out of the target area the way you were originally going. Kind of like tossing horseshoes with your back to the stake.

Not very accurate,but ;like horsehoes ,hand grenades and nukes , all you have to do is get close to the target to score!! :)

[fireengineer]

To all you Nuke-Droppin pilots out there. Back in the 70's we practiced the "over the shoulder toss" method of nuke delivery in the A-6. It would let you deliver a 5 or 10 Kt nuke with a 90+ survivability rate.

You would go in low and fast. Fly past the target,do a 4g pull up, at approx. 95-100 degrees of nose up the weapon would release. Then do a roll to a half cuban eight ,finish going over the top ,then go balls out down the other side of the eight, back down to low and fast ,exiting out of the target area the way you were originally going. Kind of like tossing horseshoes with your back to the stake.

Not very accurate,but ;like horsehoes ,hand grenades and nukes , all you have to do is get close to the target to score!! :)

You know there was a Tornado sim about a decade ago that supported this delivery method, it would auto release the bombs at the correct time, all ya had to do was pull up. Thinking back you could lob a 2000lb bomb about 14miles if you went fast enough. That sim also had the ALARM missile that shot upwards to 40,000ft then parachuted down waiting for an enemy radar, it had that JP233 anti runway cluster munition pods, it was an excellent sim, now I can't even remember its name.

[+Dave]

The SRAM works like it should.

 

 

[fireengineer]

So do my new improved nukes

 

So do my new improved nukes

[+Spectre_USA]

You know there was a Tornado sim about a decade ago that supported this delivery method, it would auto release the bombs at the correct time, all ya had to do was pull up. Thinking back you could lob a 2000lb bomb about 14miles if you went fast enough. That sim also had the ALARM missile that shot upwards to 40,000ft then parachuted down waiting for an enemy radar, it had that JP233 anti runway cluster munition pods, it was an excellent sim, now I can't even remember its name.

 

It was simply called Tornado, by DID, IIRC. I had it on the Amiga, but the 7Mhz processor wasn't getting it, so I finally

upgraded to a DOS machine. That was one of the coolest sims ever. The ALARMS, the JP223's, and the lock on of laser

guided munitions just rocked! You'd pass over your target, zoomed in, and see the GBU scream in and >BLAM!<

 

I'd love to see that one modernized...

[fireengineer]

It was simply called Tornado, by DID, IIRC. I had it on the Amiga, but the 7Mhz processor wasn't getting it, so I finally

upgraded to a DOS machine. That was one of the coolest sims ever. The ALARMS, the JP223's, and the lock on of laser

guided munitions just rocked! You'd pass over your target, zoomed in, and see the GBU scream in and >BLAM!<

 

I'd love to see that one modernized...

I loved the night missions at low level, total black outside and all you had to go on was the TFR display, then near the target the AAA would light up the terrain and sometimes your ship. Being able to belly land with battle damage was so cool, also iirc it had a program of 'natural' failures as well, so things would fail like in real life forcing a mision abort. Tornado wing sweep is manual and she would judder like bejeezus if she wasent swept at the right time. Air to air refuelling for the f3 version and flying a real CAP with your racetrack oval in the sky. Planning was a dream with 8 ship strikes every ship hittind 4 seconds after the one before, and every ship commind at the target from a different bearing, outstanding sim.