Yankee Air Pirate / Beta Testers Needed

[Guest zerocinco]

Mr. Devil,

 

You are exactly right. Think, folks. Do you really believe that YOU are the market? 10,000 copies sold, Bunyap throws a party, 11 people show up. This is a place for modifying an open source sim. Almost none of you need anyone to do anything for you.

 

On the other hand, how many of you can cook a hamburger patty? Right. Call McDonalds and tell them to close the doors. Why would anyone pay for something they can do themselves?

 

Duh.

 

I had no intention of announcing anything here at all. I just answered because I was told there were wildly uninformed opinions being advanced. I had a guy tell me that he thought it sucked that he would have to pay for an add-on. Am I missing something here? Do I have the power to MAKE people buy this? Then line up! I didn't know that.

 

Of course, I cannot imagine me being able to walk into his Jamba Juice franchise and get a freebie. That's just me. Always paying for things I need....which is my way of saying that nothing is being used without permission or purchase. I don't need to tell you that. Just thought it would calm some of the more rational of you down. (None of you would hire a lawyer anyway. They charge to talk.)

 

Here's one back at you and I'm not being snotty: Do you guys actually fly missions? You know, take off to landing, try not to get killed, try to hit the target? Or do you fiddle with the gears of the machine. I contend that is what you enjoy so that is what you do. More power to you.

 

In the real airplane world, we say there are two types: those that build them and those that fly them. Same here. I don't expect to find those people here...never did. I, on the other hand, fly. I am looking for people that want to play. They are out there.

 

Yankee Air Pirate is not for everyone. WOV, I have been lectured, is the air war over NORTH Vietnam. I'm a new guy. Didn't know which way was East. YAP is the air war in all of Southeast Asia. I didn't know the ruling clique. On the other hand, I do know all about bombing Southeast Asia and I didn't learn it on Google. Just a talentless old fool editing ini files. UV? I put on sunscreen.

 

Here's a tidbit of info for you... Many of you are, in some respects, arms dealers. What you don't have is a war. You have terrain. You have effects. You have so-so flight models. But these aren't ballerinas. These are killing machines flown by inexperienced pilots in...a war. I am providing a war. It runs from Batdambang in the west to Hong Gai on the Chinese border. And I know what the children did with their weapons. I know that an A-7 won't even fly as configured in the game. You want to see what it is like to fly in a war? Well, you can go back to a time before pilots were technicians and assassins flying above the flak, go to flight school and become a fighter pilot...or you can seek out a realistic sim and fly it. I have a sort of resume posted. I am telling wordless stories. Sort of like writing...a legitimate if talentless act.

 

Next week, if you have a hair-brained scheme that might make money and be fun to do, do it. It's the American Way. (The Enterprise was not named for a spaceship.) Instead of hanging onto your virginity, you might consider joining what you cannot beat. Commerce, gents. The good drives out the bad. I am willing to take it on the chin. You, too? How much of this stuff would have been downloaded if it hadn't been free? How much is never used? How much is junk? The good should have had a SKU number on it.

 

Have a happy 4th of July. Go outside. Watch the fireworks. See some friends. Have some fun. Then lighten up.

 

Thank you, Mr. Devil, for this opportunity to express myself against the onslaught.

 

Zerocinco, Attack Pilot for the Empire. : )

[eightlein 10]

I have been testing YAP along with others for Zerocinco. One of the criteria was to own Suzie Q on vinyl.... LOL. Thus far I find YAP to be accurate and entertaining as a sim will allow using the parameters that Zerocinco has set forth.

 

One thing I noticed about the missions and toys is not getting my frame rate beat to crap.

Perhaps that will change as the missions get more intense. I will let you know, and the reasons thereof if I can.

 

I have no interest other than doing it because I enjoy it. Just as much as I enjoy the forums and doing my beginners attempts at making and sharing some mods with all of you.

 

One of my functions is to make certain that ANYTHING that is in YAP has been approved for use. In fact, some of it has been purchased and created. So my list is quite short. So everyone please relax on that issue. (hell, she's got some of my stuff too! Bill Cosby, Himself).

 

If anyone has questions regarding the YAP missions, or toys, I will try to answer them within the scope of my knowledge, or defer you to someone who can.

 

I will not enter into any debate regarding it.

No comment, or I do not recall will be my standard reply if baited.

 

I have made friends here. Hell, I've even drank beer with some of you. I hope to keep that and lines of communication intact. We shall see.

Edited July 1, 2006 by eightlein

[Stratos 3,177]

Hi eightlein, can you tell me If one of your tasks is to attack traffic in the HoChiMin trail??

Thank's

[bpdms 0]

OK, I've had a few so here it goes.

 

$114.95 for 100 missions and the target file in an add on for Wings over Vietnam? Compiled together using mods by modders that have spent a lot of their free time on them, then getting them to ok your "selling" their product with their permission without compensation at an exorbitant rate??

 

Dude, you make the Ferengi's look like juveniles and then you justify it, can I take a peek at your portfolio?

 

I won't buy it, and I hope no one else does!

 

Jim

[Guest zerocinco]

Quite a few missions are attacks to interdict traffic on the trail. Some are at night under flares. Some of day trips to Tchepone to take out guns. Some are the resulting Search and Rescue missions from the inevitable. Most are around Mu Gia Pass, Ban Karai Pass, Tchepone and Delta 45. There are some near Nape Pass up north and near Ban Ban also.

 

The trouble is giving the player some texture when there is nothing but terrain to look at. So the ones included are the ones more visually dramatic than just driving across the fence at noon and dropping on a busted down truck.

 

Thanks for asking.

[Guest zerocinco]

And, that, dude, is the great thing about commerce. You don't have to buy anything and you can get drunk and encourage everyone in the world to not buy it also. You can even not buy something you haven't looked at because it is too steep for your blood. I do that all the time.

 

One reason that it is offered in chunks (aside from the amount of time it takes to get the whole thing right) is that if I were buying it, I would want the targets and the objects but wouldn't want all the missions until I found ouf it I liked them. Then maybe I'd go for another ten. Then maybe I do my own once I knew where all the targets were and what they did.

 

Then maybe I'd hear of a new airplane or gimmick I wanted in on so I'd hang out to pick that up.

 

I don't expect anyone to want to buy a pig in a poke. I wouldn't.

 

Then, there is a contest planned. You gotta have a hundred missions to be in it. For those that enjoy it, it will be worth it with or without the prize.

 

Anyone who buys the first ten missions hits ten targets in stories from real life. Nothing stops him from going back with heavier iron and knocking the crap out of the place another way. Instead of hitting the Comm Bldg or the fuel storage over and over again, you don't repeat yourself until mission 101. (Well, you do go back to Khe Sanh several times in an interesting trick where you clean up what is left from the previous flight until they are all silent but it works to your advantage in this case.)

 

My portfolio or my resume?

[+Dave 2,319]

Zero

 

If I understand correctly each mission will be based on real world ones? How are the missions going to be set up?

[Stratos 3,177]

Starts to sound interesting, is possible to buy only one of the parts??

[Sky Captain 0]

It comes in chunks of 10 missions, so yes, unless you mean individual missions.

[+kout 11]

You know, I think Zerocinco is right with his approach. I do miss well thought-out, realistic/historical missions in the game. One of the nice things about Flight of the Intruder were the historical missions included with the game. The same goes for some of the old WWII flight sims. Flying historical/real life missions gives you the feeling your stepping into the footsteps of the heroes of yesteryear.

 

Zerocinco, your project looks quite ambitious and I hope you succeed.

[eightlein 10]

Regarding the YAP missions. A couple more things. There are actual Recon photos and briefs included with each mission. The missions are laid out as originally planned, and these are real life missions.

 

There is room for improvision if you so desire to try and survive. Dont get cocky. I found out the hard way not seeing the the boys and girls in the black pajamas near cover of a hut, air condition my A-4 with AK-47's.

The man said if you hang around they will run for their guns. I assigned targets and ordered a second pass. They got their guns. I got out but another of my flight wasnt as lucky.

 

Just like it happened in the real mission.

[Guest zerocinco]

Good point.

 

The toughest part of marketing is pricing. And, as you understand, I am not going for max profit per sale but max volume. Here are the factors:

 

1- I want a buck a mission roughly. That's what they get for a 2.5 minute song and they are going to sell a lot more of them than I will. Good place to start.

2-A good mission takes 3 days once you know what you are doing. The map took thousands of hours. It is THE tool I provide on which to play the game. And even now it is being re-decorated to accommodate those people who want to "walk around" and look at things.

3- Paypal wants 30-cents plus 1.9% per transaction. Kinda takes the fun out of that dollar.

4- A true "shopping cart" on my website is hundreds of dollars and is designed for sites with large catalogues, not one item.

5- We all know that I will sell more initial purchases than the next and the next. Everyone tries Gorilla Ice Cream once but goes back to Vanilla (it's the hair in it). There will be some that are crazy about it but people tire easy...even of excitement. So, I need to make it up front. In this respect, your suggestion for what I call The Whole Shooting Match is a good idea. I was going to do it but I don't have that much product ready. It's "outlined"; that is roughly planned in the game but with so much new stuff it is all nothing more than notes now. I cannot sell something I do not have.

6- I have no idea of the market size. It is not going to be here. It is going to be out there somewhere...the people at Destineer Studios' (wise) plan of going to the Big Boxes did not reach. (I never heard of Wings Over Vietnam or Strike Fighters and I AM the demographic.)

 

So, you come up with a better plan (that rises above pure haggle) and I will consider it. I want to get the game out there. I want to put on the contest. I have an idea about keeping this engine going beyond its rapidly approaching death.

 

Since in some ways we are all in the same boat, realistic helpful suggestions are welcomed. Just bitching about having to pay (which I realize YOU are not) is not very helpful.

 

05

Edited July 3, 2006 by zerocinco

[+331Killerbee 840]

What are Your FireBases going to look like? Something like these?

 

 

SEMPER FI!

 

331KillerBee

[+331Killerbee 840]

A few more Pics...

 

 

 

331KillerBee

[Guest zerocinco]

Extremely nice. Wish I had the time....and the objects.

 

I use Shelter A (or is it Shelter 2?) with red dirt for revetments. I have had to be more interested in the enemy positions. Make do with what's on hand. But that is really nice. I would love to have the NVA shell it from across the valley. : )

 

Once Diego sees that, he will be going back to the drawing board, no doubt.

 

Let me send you a new version of that bunker back there in the back.

 

Where'd you get the guns?

 

I have a guard tower that shoots but won't shoot down. Do you know if the game doesn't allow downward pitch on a gun shooting at a ground target? I have arty that will and machine guns that won't. It doesn't matter much. Usually, the VC get it with an rpg before I can hit F7.

Edited July 3, 2006 by zerocinco

[+Dave 2,319]

@ KB.....nice stuff.....

[bpdms 0]

And, that, dude, is the great thing about commerce. You don't have to buy anything and you can get drunk and encourage everyone in the world to not buy it also. You can even not buy something you haven't looked at because it is too steep for your blood. I do that all the time.

 

One reason that it is offered in chunks (aside from the amount of time it takes to get the whole thing right) is that if I were buying it, I would want the targets and the objects but wouldn't want all the missions until I found ouf it I liked them. Then maybe I'd go for another ten. Then maybe I do my own once I knew where all the targets were and what they did.

 

Then maybe I'd hear of a new airplane or gimmick I wanted in on so I'd hang out to pick that up.

 

I don't expect anyone to want to buy a pig in a poke. I wouldn't.

 

Then, there is a contest planned. You gotta have a hundred missions to be in it. For those that enjoy it, it will be worth it with or without the prize.

 

Anyone who buys the first ten missions hits ten targets in stories from real life. Nothing stops him from going back with heavier iron and knocking the crap out of the place another way. Instead of hitting the Comm Bldg or the fuel storage over and over again, you don't repeat yourself until mission 101. (Well, you do go back to Khe Sanh several times in an interesting trick where you clean up what is left from the previous flight until they are all silent but it works to your advantage in this case.)

 

My portfolio or my resume?

 

Both actually?

I did look at it and I don't think its worth the price. Everything you are selling can be done with the available mods if you have the experience and the time. That's what your betting on, most people don't have the time or experience. You're cashing in on other modders time and experience and they are just bending over and saying "do me without a condom"!

 

Too steep for my blood? What a Joke! Debt free and keep it that way!

JB

[bernard 0]

Ok, sorry to be off topic as this seems to have turned into a debate about charging money for a mod but I have some questions for zerocinco regarding YAP....

 

1) I appreciate that YAP is a mod of ground objects, targets, etc with real life missions. The random mission generator.... does it make use of all the new targets or will it continue to send us after the stock targets? Theorectically, as the mission generator uses target classes for strike mission rather than groundobjects, could we possibly find ourselves attacking the Quang Khe PT boat base in a random mission?

 

2) At yankeeairpirate.net there is mention of disrupting riverine traffic in the new "Free fire zone". Is this a static target area? Any chance of flying randomly generated Armed recon missions against boats rather than trucks?

 

3) If YAP is still in it's beta state, is that what you get at yankeeairpirate.net when you pay and buy it? Also, what form does the product take? Download or CDROM? Will we have confirmation when it is totally finished?

 

Thanks in aniticipation of your reply.

Edited July 3, 2006 by bernard

[Aintry 0]

That's what your betting on, most people don't have the time or experience.

 

That's right. And what's wrong with that?

[Guest zerocinco]

Always happy to answer a reasonable request:

 

1) The random generator will pick from your files and make assignments. That is why you have zoomed in on Snoopy only to find he was flying an F-8E today. Lucky old Snoopy but not very realistic. Once you install YAP (or any other targets and types) the old days are gone...unless you run it in a separate installation.

 

2) Free Fire Zone is a political phrase, not a programming phrase. It was the justification then, as it would be in the game for those thinking about it, of dropping out of the sky onto a peaceful village and setting it on fire. Again, you might get a moving sampan to shoot at in a random mission, but it might be driving across an open field. I have included both stationary Terrain object sampans and moving Groundobject sampans so the targets can be hit outside the mission and not be empty of boats. (the moving ones have guns.)

 

3) YAP was beta when it got "revealed". It no longer is. It is a product we ship. Is it perfect? No, I was informed last night by Eightlein that some soldiers were "just standing around". (Hey 8. Soldiers always just stand around!) I had forgotten to schedule the counter attack. People are now going to be looking at the ground and that is a factor in being entertaining.

 

The map of the war is done. I am tempted to add a couple more targets but they would just be the same target someplace else. Putting the Ninh Binh Bridge in an open field because there is no river on the map would be counter-productive if historically correct. History is written from a distance. Our missions are personal stories told without words to impart what a pilot would experience on that day. I had no idea what the names were of campaigns I was in. It was pretty much "contact Snoopy" and look for the red dot.

 

All 100+ missions are "done" to some degree. Mission briefs, beta testing, and final fly-throughs are not. We changed a lot of groundobjects. Some missions will be replaced for free if a new gimmick arises that is RELEVANT to the game. For instance, an alert bird scrambling off the ramp instead of from #1 position on the runway would be a relevant change.

 

All the necessary objects are in place but we are adding constantly. Anyone who buys the war, gets free updates to the war map for six months. That will include most objects. (And before those of you on welfare start howling, I MAY have to buy somethings unplanned and this isn't a charity function). So, you can fly now, find out the M114A1 artillery has been replaced by M102's with artillerymen and go back and fly it again just to look at them. We intend to add as much RELEVANT detail as we can without stopping your computer cold. (I am sure that a lot of irrelevant detail is going to slip in also because I like finding little things down there also as long as it doesn't effect frame rate. You don't need hotels on the beach at Vung Tao or Angkor Wat. I just wanted them there. And, as you can see from the attached picts, Diego is insane.) : )

 

It is a complete product that is growing. Once you buy the war, I will do what I can to keep yours the same as everyone elses.

Edited July 3, 2006 by zerocinco

[HrntFixr 4]

@KB and Zero NICE!!!

[+russouk2004 6,951]

Well the weapons pack contains a few items I made....if its the same as available to simhq etc....when was I asked for permission to use them?...so far,not at all.....

I decline the use of anything of mine to be used to make money for someone else.....sorry...

also I would like to see what all these "donated" models\items actually are..that are included in this package...

Cheers

Russ

[Guest zerocinco]

Well, identify them so we can replace them.

 

I am assuming that you are going to withdraw it from the Weapons Pack altogether in an anti-commercial frenzy. So if it is an important weapon model, I will replace it. The number of 3DS Max artists in Los Angeles looking at Craigslist is scary.

 

The only weapons or guns we provide are our own additions. (mostly artillery) The rest? We just provide a link. One click and they have them all anyway.

 

And as far as "donated" models/items, we aren't donating anything. Nada. Niente. You have to pay to see them.

Edited July 4, 2006 by zerocinco

[eightlein 10]

As I had previously stated I will advise on my findings re:YAP. I mentioned frame rate hits.

I know from previous experience in SF/WOV some of the stock and addons missions did the same thing. To me at least.

I am not a PC pro. I dont know a diode from a crystal. I will tell you that a low end system will take some hits from some of the missions. But its the same: turn off the mirrors, shadows, etc, lower your graphics settings a notch and you'll be just peachy. Hell, take a second to look at your pretty plane and your gonna get smoked. Your trying to survive and get home, not critique the paint job."Hours of dull monotony, sprinkled with a few seconds of stark terror". I dont recall what pilot made that observation.

[Guest zerocinco]

I changed the Speech ini to remove the Ground Commander. I'd like to shut them all up. That hits me the worst.