+Jug 99 Posted July 11, 2006 I am a retired USAF pilot and earn my living programming. I love Flight Sims and especially the WoE/WoV/SFP1. I would like to get started in modding, but, honestly, don't know where to start. I understand that there is some software I must buy to get started, but I don't know what is the best or where to go to purchase it. A little help from the membership alreading doing some modding would help here. I would also like to know what the alternatives are (if any). Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest capun Posted July 11, 2006 What do you mean by modding? Do you want to do models, which models? The game can be modded in many ways via the INI's If you want to play around with the ini's you don't need any special tool except Notepad. We don't have that many FM experts and that is one place needed. Now if you want to do model, you can use a 3D program like GMax, An8R or something like that, but eventually you need to use 3DS Max to export the model into a LOD that the game uses. 3DS Max is very, very expensive in the few thousand of dollars. Now you can get an educational copy if you can qualify, that will still set you back about $500. GMax is free if you have FS2004, An8R is fairly cheap. Besides plane and ground object models, an area that we have very few experts are cockpits. Look for a document here, something along "Third Wire exporter notes" that I posted with Third Wire's permission. It has the LOD exporter and the notes that tells you how to set-up your models for the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhugouvi 0 Posted July 12, 2006 Don't forget Blender, which is free too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted July 12, 2006 Don't forget Blender, which is free too. Thank you. Doing some research on the web right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted July 12, 2006 What do you mean by modding? Do you want to do models, which models? The game can be modded in many ways via the INI's If you want to play around with the ini's you don't need any special tool except Notepad. We don't have that many FM experts and that is one place needed. Now if you want to do model, you can use a 3D program like GMax, An8R or something like that, but eventually you need to use 3DS Max to export the model into a LOD that the game uses. 3DS Max is very, very expensive in the few thousand of dollars. Now you can get an educational copy if you can qualify, that will still set you back about $500. GMax is free if you have FS2004, An8R is fairly cheap. Besides plane and ground object models, an area that we have very few experts are cockpits. Look for a document here, something along "Third Wire exporter notes" that I posted with Third Wire's permission. It has the LOD exporter and the notes that tells you how to set-up your models for the game. Thanks for the info Capun. Big fan of your work here and know how much time you have invested in it. Well done! I am going to do some modelling. I guess I'll start with GMax since I have FS2004 to get a feel for what it is all about, but my aim is to have the proper software. I'll look at them all, but looks like I'd better get ready for 3DS Max. Be glad to offer what assistance I can to persons who need help with cockpits. I only have time in the following front offices: F-5E, F-5B, MB-339, Tucano, T-38, T-37, A-37C, B-52G, U-2C, U-2R, TR-1, C12A, and the Mirage IIIEBR. (couldn't do anything right). Not that it changes gameplay one iota, but cockpit mods for AI aircraft to make them flyable, should match the number of engines to the applicable cockpit. An F-4 cockpit (2-engines) is a little less realistic in a MiG-17 and an A-4 cockpit is the same in a MiG-19. Not casting any asparagas at anyone who did the work, but its a good place to start. Bye the way, you can get some cockpit pictures here http://www.airliners.net/search/ and they make great loading screens as a lead in to the sim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt.Scarlet 0 Posted July 12, 2006 You can get an evaluation copy of 3DMax from the software maker. Before investing over a $1000 it worth the try ... I have it and used it to do rendering of car models , but modeling 3D objects is something I haven't tried yet , but it seems very complex, I would be willing to try cockpit modeling but would need a coach to start the basic ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Modeling in 3ds max isn't really as complicated as it sounds. It only took me 20 minutes in a tutorial (for Gmax) for me to understand the basic concepts of how things work. From there, I just basically learned how to use more of the program as I gained experience. I always learn something new in every model that I make. The only thing that I haven't been able to do is texturing, which I hear is a pain in the butt. The only downside to 3ds max is as stated previously, it is expensive. Also, if you're going to model in Gmax (which I did use at first), you're going to need to find someone who can convert the files, and even then, things might not work out right. Conversion of files usually end up with a lot of mesh errors. If you got the dough, I would seriously consider looking at 3ds max, lightwave, or maya (which a lot of game developers use). Freeware stuff is great, but they don't offer the full potential of what the real expensive programs have. Edited July 13, 2006 by serverandenforcer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted July 13, 2006 Modeling in 3ds max isn't really as complicated as it sounds. It only took me 20 minutes in a tutorial (for Gmax) for me to understand the basic concepts of how things work. From there, I just basically learned how to use more of the program as I gained experience. I always learn something new in every model that I make. The only thing that I haven't been able to do is texturing, which I hear is a pain in the butt. The only downside to 3ds max is as stated previously, it is expensive. Also, if you're going to model in Gmax (which I did use at first), you're going to need to find someone who can convert the files, and even then, things might not work out right. Conversion of files usually end up with a lot of mesh errors. If you got the dough, I would seriously consider looking at 3ds max, lightwave, or maya (which a lot of game developers use). Freeware stuff is great, but they don't offer the full potential of what the real expensive programs have. Thanks for the advice, I think I may just start out with 3DS Max. I can just tell CINC House that I am buying motorcycle and when she has a cardiac arrest, I'll let her down gently by just buying the software program. Tactics, my boy, tactics wins the day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhugouvi 0 Posted July 13, 2006 BTW, what kind of data do you have about the U-2s and their cockpit? I'm considering working on those birds so I need some pix. And of course it'd be fine collaborating! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest capun Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Best thing to do to get 3DS Max cheaper (I don't condone piracy) is to enroll in a local college to get a student ID and then get an educational version. The only proviso of the educational version is that you cannot sell your models. You can also get it if you are a teacher. Here's one place to check Studica for educational software BTW, I never took a class about 3D modelling either, just learn as I go. I started learning with GMax since it is basically a crippled 3DS Max 4.2 The downside of GMax is that there is no easy way to export the file to be used by 3DS Max to get the needed LOD. There are ways to get an X Format file that can be imported by GMax but the animation frames get kinda screwy. My recommendation is to start with a simple project so you do not get frustrated with a complex model while you are learning the modelling software. I'll start with simple ground objects or with a simpler plane. You can find good source files (mostly 3ds format) in the net, so you can learn the process of getting the model into the game. As for texturing, I am in the same boat. Can't paint at all. I just create the UVMaps and use our Team's resident painter (Gramps) to do them. You can find many painters that will be willing to help you. If you need sites with cockpit info, let me know and I'll post the ones I have Edited July 13, 2006 by capun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted July 13, 2006 Dragonlady_Cockpit_Loading.bmpDragonlady_Cockpit_Loading3.bmpDragonlady_Cockpit_Loading4.bmp BTW, what kind of data do you have about the U-2s and their cockpit? I'm considering working on those birds so I need some pix. And of course it'd be fine collaborating! I have a copy of the unclassified tech order which shows all you'd ever want to know about the cockpit for the U-2R. The U-2C was a much smaller lady and her cockpit much more basic. I've got some pictures around somewhere that I can scan and provide. Attached are pics of the C model, the R/TR-1 model and the new "Glass Cockpit" for the S model. Love to collaborate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted July 13, 2006 Best thing to do to get 3DS Max cheaper (I don't condone piracy) is to enroll in a local college to get a student ID and then get an educational version. The only proviso of the educational version is that you cannot sell your models. You can also get it if you are a teacher. Here's one place to check Studica for educational software BTW, I never took a class about 3D modelling either, just learn as I go. I started learning with GMax since it is basically a crippled 3DS Max 4.2 The downside of GMax is that there is no easy way to export the file to be used by 3DS Max to get the needed LOD. There are ways to get an X Format file that can be imported by GMax but the animation frames get kinda screwy. My recommendation is to start with a simple project so you do not get frustrated with a complex model while you are learning the modelling software. I'll start with simple ground objects or with a simpler plane. You can find good source files (mostly 3ds format) in the net, so you can learn the process of getting the model into the game. As for texturing, I am in the same boat. Can't paint at all. I just create the UVMaps and use our Team's resident painter (Gramps) to do them. You can find many painters that will be willing to help you. If you need sites with cockpit info, let me know and I'll post the ones I have I think I may look on EBay, just in case and, as a programmer with a couple of copyrights myself, I certainly cannot entertain anything, but buying the program up front. All my stock picks are in the crapper this month, so I may have to wait until they drift above what I paid for them to gather up the sheckels. I am also a big admirer of your paint honcho's work as well. My spouse is a graphic design artist, so I plan to enlist her help when I reach my own limit for texturing (which won't take long). I have found that a view of the cockpit just outside of the pit so you have some perspective in high-resolution is a great loading screen. I also like the nose-on taxiing view like the ones attached for the EE Lightning and for the MiG-21 for loading. Kinda speaks to me of "big bad jet ready to churn and burn" and gets me in the right place to really enjoy the sim. Lightning_Loading8.bmp MiG_21bis_Loading.bmp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadaicha Man 0 Posted July 14, 2006 I'm also interested in trying to get into making models for SF/WOV. I've been working my way through the tutorials done by, "mustang" I think his name was, which I downloaded off one site. However, I get a very different result to what he does. What I need is either some better tutorials in how to use 3ds max or someone to help me. Any takers? I've got several projects I'd like to try and do, if I could. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted July 14, 2006 Best thing to do to get 3DS Max cheaper (I don't condone piracy) is to enroll in a local college to get a student ID and then get an educational version. But yet, you dress up as a pirate every year for Halloween. Can't have it both ways capun...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest capun Posted July 14, 2006 Always a clown in the crowd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HrntFixr 4 Posted July 14, 2006 A pirate??? where's your buccaners??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sky Captain 0 Posted July 14, 2006 Like Captain Will Sparrow and his entourage of Ice Cream Sandwiches, cursed forever by Davey Jones' Aztec Gold? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted July 15, 2006 Like Captain Will Sparrow and his entourage of Ice Cream Sandwiches, cursed forever by Davey Jones' Aztec Gold? F.Y.I., it's Captain Jack Sparrow, other character is Will Tanner. Just saw the movie, that's why I know. O.K., this is OT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadaicha Man 0 Posted July 15, 2006 I'm also interested in trying to get into making models for SF/WOV. I've been working my way through the tutorials done by, "mustang" I think his name was, which I downloaded off one site. However, I get a very different result to what he does. What I need is either some better tutorials in how to use 3ds max or someone to help me. Any takers? I've got several projects I'd like to try and do, if I could. Nice to see everybody leap to help me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sky Captain 0 Posted July 15, 2006 F.Y.I., it's Captain Jack Sparrow, other character is Will Tanner. Just saw the movie, that's why I know. O.K., this is OT. Actually it's Turner. :P And yeah, I know, just being random. Ok... Back on topic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhugouvi 0 Posted July 15, 2006 Kadaicha Man: Welcome! Mustang's tutorials are the best doc you can get when it comes to 3D modelling. They are totally aircraft modelling oriented. You can get them here (Skunk Works), among many other interesting things. Hope it helps! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadaicha Man 0 Posted July 16, 2006 Kadaicha Man: Welcome! Mustang's tutorials are the best doc you can get when it comes to 3D modelling. They are totally aircraft modelling oriented. You can get them here (Skunk Works), among many other interesting things. Hope it helps! I have followed them but the problem I have is that when I attempt to make the fuselage, I can get it correct from the front but when I do it from the side, the cylinder becomes distorted in odd shapes. I can make the vertices conform to, say either the top or the bottom contour of the fuselage but not both! The result is a fuselage which looks decidely odd. The other problem I have is that when I create my front, side and top view from the 3 view drawing, invariably the side view doesn't line up with the front view on the "box" which I created. Very strange. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest capun Posted July 16, 2006 A couple of suggestions - A good set of blueprints are essential. Some of the diagrams are not scaled properly - When making the box, how do you select the size of them? For example the fuselage section, are you using the spec for the fuselage lenght and height for the box? Remeber that most specs are not clear how they measure it, height is usually measured from the ground with the gears extended to the topmost part. So you need to fiddle with the side plane to make it correct. Of course the best is to get the true fuselage specs but that sometimes is not easy to get. - Be sure to align the pictures in all of the planes (3D speaking) of the box. Hope it helps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kadaicha Man 0 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) I usually use the dimensions which are publically available. I've been wondering if the publicly available plans and dimensions (sometimes from two different sources) are correct or not. However, while I can overcome that problem, I'm more interested in getting the vertices correct. Why is that I can align the top or the bottom contour of the fuselage but not both? Edited July 17, 2006 by Kadaicha Man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+NGHENGO 14 Posted July 26, 2006 Always a clown in the crowd Hi "Guru" Capun the question is how can I use the "ORDINATE DI FUSOLIERA" in my Projects see the fig. an An_22 for example! Hi "Guru" Capun the question is how can I use the "ORDINATE DI FUSOLIERA" in my Projectssee the fig. an An_22 for example! Sorry I loose my figure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites