+bortdafarm 1 Posted January 4, 2007 (edited) Nice start on the Eindecker, Bortdafarm. The 3D model looks good. When doing FMs it is important to get the basics right before doing too much tweaking, though. The Fokker Eindecker had an empty mass of 399 kg, not 094.5 as you have it. And as Froggy has pointed out, it had a 100hp Oberursel engine - you have it with SLPowerDry=149140.0 or 200hp. The wingspan was 9.5m, not 8.13, and the wing area was 15.4 square metres, not 24.77. Once you get all the objective stuff right, the rest usually falls into place. and you end up with yet another "twist and go" aircraft.. tell you the truth i'm inclined to say the Eindecker is finished it is...and the air file.... this it's inmportant to get the basics right???? ----what your saying is it's important to get the stats right...and i'm with GR here there are no stats for all the really important things...you see the thing with realism and stats is this.. in the real world - reality produces the stats... in the sim world - the stats produce the reality.. so you end up putting the cart before the horse as it were..and i'd rather not live in a reality controlled by stats... Edited January 4, 2007 by bortdafarm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 4, 2007 Thats all well and good Bort but an Eindecker with a 5000ft./min rate of climb doesn't quite peg the ole reality meter....at least not in my sim world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+bortdafarm 1 Posted January 4, 2007 look guys you are taking this far too seriuosly...(am i the one who needs the thick skin or is it you guys???) you seem inordinately sensitive to statistical odditys in text files ...and so on...the point is and i have been playing along with this...fair do's...i built a model file for an Eindecker..i said absolutely nothing about wanting to build a FM for an eindecker..you kinda completly missing the point....... i have no interest in building FM's now if some-body is OFFERING to build me an FM for the eindecker that's an entirely different kettle of fish....gratefully recieved... if somebody wants to nit pick the one I have made they can go swing on a star as far as i'm concerned... and as you know i'll argue for the sake of argueing till the cows come home... so it's that simple don't like the eindecker FM? make me a new one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Id gladly work the FM for you if you wana... Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+bortdafarm 1 Posted January 4, 2007 Id gladly work the FM for you if you wana... Tex many thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 4, 2007 "if somebody wants to nit pick the one I have made they can go swing on a star as far as i'm concerned... and as you know i'll argue for the sake of argueing till the cows come home..." Nobody is nitpicking anything. This discussion is friendly and nobody is out of line. Charles happens to have a lot of experience in FMs and is only offering friendly advice. You blow it off like stats don't matter. Well they certainly do to some extent as shown by the inordinate rate of climb as a result of the decidedly non-statistical weight you have chosen for your aircraft. People are prone to discuss your, or anyone else's, projects on many different levels in many different ways. Its a forum. You need to learn to deal with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+bortdafarm 1 Posted January 4, 2007 "if somebody wants to nit pick the one I have made they can go swing on a star as far as i'm concerned...and as you know i'll argue for the sake of argueing till the cows come home..." Nobody is nitpicking anything. This discussion is friendly and nobody is out of line. Charles happens to have a lot of experience in FMs and is only offering friendly advice. You blow it off like stats don't matter. Well they certainly do to some extent as shown by the inordinate rate of climb as a result of the decidedly non-statistical weight you have chosen for your aircraft. People are prone to discuss your, or anyone else's, projects on many different levels in many different ways. Its a forum. You need to learn to deal with it. and whoose gawd dang eindecker is this anyway.....it is perfectly obvious to me now exactly why folks like capun decide to work in private and play their cards so close to their chest,,,why??because people just focus on entirely the wrong areas....i shall of course learn from this.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+NeverEnough 78 Posted January 4, 2007 (edited) Hey Bortdafarm: For every "squeaky wheel" that rags on the details of one of your MUCH appreciated models and contributions, after years of lurking on various Strike Fighters forums I'd guess there are another 100+ members of the community that remain forever in your debt. Since the deliriously happy members for the most part belong to the infamous "Silent Majority", their accolades are drowned out by the "Vocal Minority". I would guess that when I say Thank You, Thank You, Thank You; those sentiments are echoed by a vast number of individuals who will never post on a forum. Edited January 4, 2007 by Tailspin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+bortdafarm 1 Posted January 4, 2007 Many Many Thanks Never' it's most appreciated!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 4, 2007 Hallo! Can anyone tell me, why does my N.28 rotates around his wheel rotatation axe, ant toches the ground with the nose at the end. It happends when it stands on the airfield with power 0? EmlD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted January 4, 2007 Just a guess - did you give a proper OnGroundPitchAngle in aircraft data? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 4, 2007 Yes, i messed it in 3ds, plane stands properly (on 3 point) but the plane is rotating very slowly...so maybe after 20 sec it touches the ground with its nose :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Flamer50 3 Posted January 4, 2007 Bort' Finally got to fly your Eindecker(work night shift), very nice "machine", lots of fun to fly. Not concerned about lack of gun sight, do what I did in RB3, learn "sight picture" for aircraft in question. Thank You very much for this new "toy", hope you will do some more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 4, 2007 and whoose gawd dang eindecker is this anyway.....it is perfectly obvious to me now exactly why folks like capun decide to work in private and play their cards so close to their chest,,,why??because people just focus on entirely the wrong areas....i shall of course learn from this.... BTW....Charles does the FMs for the ATeam...and you're overreacting....again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJmorrow 0 Posted January 4, 2007 (edited) Bort' Finally got to fly your Eindecker(work night shift), very nice "machine", lots of fun to fly. Not concerned about lack of gun sight, do what I did in RB3, learn "sight picture" for aircraft in question. Thank You very much for this new "toy", hope you will do some more. Yeah, thanks for the Eindecker Bortafarm. You did a great job on what has been done so far. It is a work in progress, just like the game itself. Don't worry about the other comments. They just want to help. TK gets know nothings like me complaining about details. Imagine how TK feels about that!! He still listens, and he makes changes. He cares about our opinion and we want the game to be great. Like you, the other guys know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than I do. These guys know a lot and they can give informed opinions. I really pick up a lot when you or one of the others puts a tip on the forum. If the guys didn't care about you or your project they wouldn't say anything. I appreciate everything you and the rest of the comunity contribute. I think it is great that you might collaborate with Tex Murphy. Two minds are better than one. Edited January 4, 2007 by MJmorrow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted January 4, 2007 No one is insulting anyone so relax. People are going to to make comments on something people release. Deal with it. 5o00ft per minute FM is a valid critique and it was put together very politely. Charles and Tailspin do have experience in this. Their input should at least be considered. Of course people efforts are appreciated but if someone says (nicely) that something is incorrect then take it in stride and fix it. I see no harm or foul in this. Admin thought for the day. Carry On! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJmorrow 0 Posted January 4, 2007 Nice start on the Eindecker, Bortdafarm. The 3D model looks good. When doing FMs it is important to get the basics right before doing too much tweaking, though. The Fokker Eindecker had an empty mass of 399 kg, not 094.5 as you have it. And as Froggy has pointed out, it had a 100hp Oberursel engine - you have it with SLPowerDry=149140.0 or 200hp. The wingspan was 9.5m, not 8.13, and the wing area was 15.4 square metres, not 24.77. Once you get all the objective stuff right, the rest usually falls into place. Charles, Your figures work out right. I have even seen data on the net that places the empy mass of the E. 3 well over 400 kg! What I can't get is that when I put IN the correct aircraft data the plane becomes a mono-car. I am an utter know nothing on this subject, like I said in the last post I put up. I assume that the aircraft data was built around the super low empty mass figure. Is there a good rule of thumb on how to adjust everything else without having a good deal of wind tunnel data to work from? -MJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 4, 2007 One problem is the Lift values (CLa for instance) for the wings are too low for the actual aircraft data. Looks like the EmptyInertia values need recalculating too. I've never actually done a complete flight model before, this one would be a fun one to practice on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted January 4, 2007 (edited) MJ, grab editing notes from the bottom of this page http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/CharlesEAW/sfpage.html Maybe we should double all lift values for a start? bortdafarm, if anyone had any crashes, FPS drops or other things like that, I think we'd tell you, huh? The model works fine and people already want to adjust its stats closer to real figures. I the meantime you can draw some nice damage.. Edited January 4, 2007 by Gr.Viper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJmorrow 0 Posted January 5, 2007 MJ, grab editing notes from the bottom of this page http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/CharlesEAW/sfpage.html Maybe we should double all lift values for a start? bortdafarm, if anyone had any crashes, FPS drops or other things like that, I think we'd tell you, huh? The model works fine and people already want to adjust its stats closer to real figures. I the meantime you can draw some nice damage.. Thanks Gr. Viper, will do. -MJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted January 5, 2007 Well in an interesting turn of events, bortdafarm has decided to leave the forum after I asked him in a PM not to take criticism so personal and not to argue with everyone when people are trying to help. Its a shame too he made a damn fine plane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 5, 2007 Ive set the "real" values and the following lift on the inner wing sections... CL0=0.4932 CLa=0.9677 CD0=0.0545 CDL=0.0250 Cmq=-0.0253 Cmad=0.029 Cyb=-0.0015 Clb=0.05 Clp=-0.0341 Clr=0.0162 Cnp=0.0078 Cnr=-0.0173 Ive also set MomentOfInerita to 0 for time beeing... When I start manouvering the plane has all sorts of behaviour issues. These lift values arnt enough to get it off the ground. But it does fly... this is a bit strange to me. Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 5, 2007 Ahhh crhist he left the forums??? This is more drama then a freekin MMPOG.... But seriously if one cant laugh about something that is posted as a beta... as in not ready and just something to toy around with till it is ready.. what can one laugh about then?? Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted January 5, 2007 What can I say, some people need thick skin. Like I said its too bad as he had a lot of good ideas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJmorrow 0 Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) Well in an interesting turn of events, bortdafarm has decided to leave the forum after I asked him in a PM not to take criticism so personal and not to argue with everyone when people are trying to help. Its a shame too he made a damn fine plane. That is terrible. I hope he comes back. He has really good ideas and seems like a nice guy. It would be something to see Bortafarm collaborate with the rest of you gurus of modding too. The incremental improvements from such collaboration could do justice to what is a truly outstanding model by Bortafarm. I wish I made the Eindecker model! It is def a fine plane. Edited January 5, 2007 by MJmorrow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
