Phoenix Failures

[Guest IndioBlack]

In order to try out the new F-14 cockpit, I've just flown some missions in WOE over Germany. Suddenly the AIM-54s don't work properly any more.

Once I have a locked target, at well within notified Shoot-range, I launch and the missile heads off, trailing those smoke rings for a very short duration. Then it coasts a bit, slowly losing altitude, and then self destructs. This is well before half-way to the target.

I didn't have this problem in SF, so is it something about WOE that doesn't like the Phoenix ?

 

The new F-14 cockpit is beautiful, and I don't think it's part of the problem. I just mentioned it, because it was the reason I decided to try out WOE again.

Edited March 22, 2007 by IndioBlack

[Victory103 0]

IB,

I just got back into this game and the first bird I got was the F-14. Finally got the lastest wep pack, and went hunting Migs with the AIM-54. I have had no problems at all, hitting the targets outside of 50nm with no issues.

[+Typhoid 231]

In order to try out the new F-14 cockpit, I've just flown some missions in WOE over Germany. Suddenly the AIM-54s don't work properly any more.

Once I have a locked target, at well within notified Shoot-range, I launch and the missile heads off, trailing those smoke rings for a very short duration. Then it coasts a bit, slowly losing altitude, and then self destructs. This is well before half-way to the target.

I didn't have this problem in SF, so is it something about WOE that doesn't like the Phoenix ?

 

The new F-14 cockpit is beautiful, and I don't think it's part of the problem. I just mentioned it, because it was the reason I decided to try out WOE again.

 

 

IB,

 

sometimes it will fail based on percentage of reliability. Shoot again.........

 

also be sure you are actually within parameters as pointed at the target with a bit of lead.

[serverandenforcer 33]

IB,

 

sometimes it will fail based on percentage of reliability. Shoot again.........

 

also be sure you are actually within parameters as pointed at the target with a bit of lead.

 

What about head to head, 'cause I've have this problem as well. Would be nice to have a TTI timer so we know in the cockpit if the missile is dead or not, 'cause you lose visual contact when that sucker goes out really far.

[Guest IndioBlack]

IB,

 

sometimes it will fail based on percentage of reliability. Shoot again.........

 

also be sure you are actually within parameters as pointed at the target with a bit of lead.

 

 

When I have flown the F-14 in SF, I have had a 100% hit rate with the Phoenix, over many Loaded or Created Missions.

 

If I fly within WOE, but select any of my own F-14 Missions set in Libya, I have a 100% hit rate with the Phoenix.

 

When I flew the F-14 within WOE, over the European terrain, using "Create a Mission", I had 100% failure rate. That consisted of six missiles, both AIM-54B and 54C.

 

Conclusion: The Phoenix is 100% unreliable over the European Terrain.

[+Dave 2,321]

Conclusion: The Phoenix is 100% unreliable over the European Terrain.

 

That is not true, the Phoenix works fine in WOE. You have to have it firing in the right parameters. It was meant to take out bombers, not jinking fighters.

[+Dave 2,321]

What about head to head, 'cause I've have this problem as well. Would be nice to have a TTI timer so we know in the cockpit if the missile is dead or not, 'cause you lose visual contact when that sucker goes out really far.

 

Head to head with the Phoenix IIRC was not one of its strong points. It had trouble keeping a lock in that aspect ratio.

[Guest IndioBlack]

That is not true, the Phoenix works fine in WOE. You have to have it firing in the right parameters. It was meant to take out bombers, not jinking fighters.

 

Okay, well then my game is corrupted.

 

I always fire within the correct parameters, speeding up to give a good launch speed from the aircraft, and mainly using them against Tupolev bombers. I have also successfully used them against fighters in third-party missions, because fighters in the SF series do not jink. They fly in perfect formation, ignoring you completely, as you destroy them one-by-one.

There are specific conditions in the randomly-generated "Create Mission", where if the enemy aircraft are spawned very close to you, then they will manouevre with relative aggression. But in such a case, you would never use the Phoenix, anyway.

The quoted range for the Phoenix, within game, is 10 to 70 miles. I usually launch at about 50, some time after the shoot cue has lit-up. I would rarely use it below 25, because by then the Sparrow is coming into range.

Naturally, range is dependant on target aspect, but I always take that into account.

 

When you examine a problem in a game or in real life, you have to look at the given facts, and try to identify the unusual and the unique.

 

I stated the following: "When I have flown the F-14 in SF, I have had a 100% hit rate with the Phoenix, over many Loaded or Created Missions"

If this is true, then one can discount Pilot error. Clearly the Pilot knows how to fire the Phoenix missile within parameters in SF. Any further discussion about firing parameters and targets, is clearly redundant.

 

Now examine this statement: "If I fly within WOE, but select any of my own F-14 Missions set in Libya, I have a 100% hit rate with the Phoenix."

Clearly, third-party missions, loaded in WOE, have no effect on the efficiency of the Phoenix.

 

Now examine the third statement: "When I flew the F-14 within WOE, over the European terrain, using "Create a Mission", I had 100% failure rate. That consisted of six missiles, both AIM-54B and 54C."

So the problem area for Phoenix failure in WOE appears to encompass:

1. Missions created within WOE by the random mission-generator accessed from the "Create Mission" tab.

2. Missions that take place over the European terrain.

 

You then said "the Phoenix works fine in WOE".

If that is the case, within the parameters numbered 1 and 2 above, then clearly my game is corrupted. I can think of no other conclusion that can be drawn from the facts as presented.

 

I shall now do further to tests to ascertain if either parameter can be discounted.

 

If anyone else has suffered Phoenix failures within the above-stated parameters, then please let me know.

[Guest IndioBlack]

Head to head with the Phoenix IIRC was not one of its strong points. It had trouble keeping a lock in that aspect ratio.

 

In SF, head to head with the Phoenix is not a problem.

 

Servandenforcer, if you wish to keep a check on whether your Phoenix is active or not, just switch to the Weapon View using the appropriate key.

 

The first indication I had of my first Phoenix failure in WOE, was when I hit the Weapon View key, about fifteen seconds after firing, and nothing happened.

When I fired my second Phoenix, I immediately switched to the Weapon View and watched the missile slow down, lose altitude and then self-destruct.

 

Unless, of course, it was hit by a SAM?

Now that may be worth investigating.

[+Typhoid 231]

Okay, well then my game is corrupted.

 

I always fire within the correct parameters, speeding up to give a good launch speed from the aircraft, and mainly using them against Tupolev bombers. I have also successfully used them against fighters in third-party missions, because fighters in the SF series do not jink. They fly in perfect formation, ignoring you completely, as you destroy them one-by-one.

There are specific conditions in the randomly-generated "Create Mission", where if the enemy aircraft are spawned very close to you, then they will manouevre with relative aggression. But in such a case, you would never use the Phoenix, anyway.

The quoted range for the Phoenix, within game, is 10 to 70 miles. I usually launch at about 50, some time after the shoot cue has lit-up. I would rarely use it below 25, because by then the Sparrow is coming into range.

Naturally, range is dependant on target aspect, but I always take that into account.

 

When you examine a problem in a game or in real life, you have to look at the given facts, and try to identify the unusual and the unique.

 

I stated the following: "When I have flown the F-14 in SF, I have had a 100% hit rate with the Phoenix, over many Loaded or Created Missions"

If this is true, then one can discount Pilot error. Clearly the Pilot knows how to fire the Phoenix missile within parameters in SF. Any further discussion about firing parameters and targets, is clearly redundant.

 

Now examine this statement: "If I fly within WOE, but select any of my own F-14 Missions set in Libya, I have a 100% hit rate with the Phoenix."

Clearly, third-party missions, loaded in WOE, have no effect on the efficiency of the Phoenix.

 

Now examine the third statement: "When I flew the F-14 within WOE, over the European terrain, using "Create a Mission", I had 100% failure rate. That consisted of six missiles, both AIM-54B and 54C."

So the problem area for Phoenix failure in WOE appears to encompass:

1. Missions created within WOE by the random mission-generator accessed from the "Create Mission" tab.

2. Missions that take place over the European terrain.

 

You then said "the Phoenix works fine in WOE".

If that is the case, within the parameters numbered 1 and 2 above, then clearly my game is corrupted. I can think of no other conclusion that can be drawn from the facts as presented.

 

I shall now do further to tests to ascertain if either parameter can be discounted.

 

If anyone else has suffered Phoenix failures within the above-stated parameters, then please let me know.

 

i have not experienced your described results in WOE over the European terrain.

[Guest IndioBlack]

i have not experienced your described results in WOE over the European terrain.

 

Thank you. It is looking increasingly likely that I may have a corrupted installation.

The fact that it is merged with WOV may have a bearing.

[Caesar 305]

I can hit fighters, bombers, et alium with the AIM-54 at range with a merged copy of WoE/WoV on the European terrain; getting towards Rmin against fighters isn't a good idea though; surefire way for the half-ton missile to miss.

[+Typhoid 231]

Thank you. It is looking increasingly likely that I may have a corrupted installation.

The fact that it is merged with WOV may have a bearing.

 

mine is also merged.

 

good luck

 

[Guest IndioBlack]

mine is also merged.

 

good luck

 

 

Well I fooled around a bit, wrote some new missions with the F-14 on a Carrier off Holland, eventually remembering to make sure the F-14 was a USN aircraft so the Phoenix would be available, and everything was working fine. I checked the Phoenix availability dates and all manner of other details.

I then went back to a CREATE MISSION, and got no problems whatsoever.

 

Now when you're in weapon view, you get three distinct cues as to whether your missile has hit: You see the target getting bigger, you see an explosion, and you get an audio clip "you got one".

What I was getting was only the explosion. It is possible that I was actually getting hits before, but didn't see the target getting bigger, and didn't hear the audio cue. So I'm putting this one down to user inattention. I was returing to WOE after an absence, I was primarily testing out the new F-14 cockpit, and I may well have missed these other cues. I can think of no other explanation, since I don't believe I've really changed anything internally to my install.

 

Thank you for your responses. The fact that you all had no problems persuaded me to do a full investigation, and everything now appears to be fine.

[Guest IndioBlack]

Okay, it's definitely not "User inattention", the Phoenix does go stupid in WOE, whereas for me it never did in SF.

 

Last night I was testing an F-14 Carrier mission in WOE, hunting some MiG23s. At about 80 miles distant, I got a shoot cue for the Phoenix C and launched. The missile killed the target.

I locked up a second MiG, confirmed it wasn't the one I'd already sent plummeting, saw the shoot cue, and launched a second Phoenix. I knew something was wrong straight away, the missile curved out to the left, and then instead of curving back inwards, just kept going off at about 45 degrees. I called up the missile view, and watched it coast along for a short while, and then it exploded. I then fired another Phoenix, and watched it do the same thing.

Finally I fired the fourth Phoenix, and this one behaved properly straight out of the trap. It streaked at the target, now about 45 miles away, and killed it.

 

So that's a Phoenix launched at about 80 miles, hitting its target

Two Phoenix launched at between 45 and 80, going stupid.

One Phoenix launched at 45, hitting the target that the other two couldn't see.

 

Conclusion is that in WOE, sometimes you get Phoenix failures. QED.

[+Typhoid 231]

Okay, it's definitely not "User inattention", the Phoenix does go stupid in WOE, whereas for me it never did in SF.

 

Last night I was testing an F-14 Carrier mission in WOE, hunting some MiG23s. At about 80 miles distant, I got a shoot cue for the Phoenix C and launched. The missile killed the target.

I locked up a second MiG, confirmed it wasn't the one I'd already sent plummeting, saw the shoot cue, and launched a second Phoenix. I knew something was wrong straight away, the missile curved out to the left, and then instead of curving back inwards, just kept going off at about 45 degrees. I called up the missile view, and watched it coast along for a short while, and then it exploded. I then fired another Phoenix, and watched it do the same thing.

Finally I fired the fourth Phoenix, and this one behaved properly straight out of the trap. It streaked at the target, now about 45 miles away, and killed it.

 

So that's a Phoenix launched at about 80 miles, hitting its target

Two Phoenix launched at between 45 and 80, going stupid.

One Phoenix launched at 45, hitting the target that the other two couldn't see.

 

Conclusion is that in WOE, sometimes you get Phoenix failures. QED.

 

leads me to believe that a fairly accurate reliability factor is in the sim.

[Guest IndioBlack]

leads me to believe that a fairly accurate reliability factor is in the sim.

 

Exactly.

I'm just sorry that no-one else is enjoying this.

 

However, now that I know, I can factor it in when deciding on force sizes in missions.

 

In SF, your maximum kill-load was 4 Phoenix 2 Sparrow 2 Sidewinder. That's 8 guaranteed kills. Your wingman doesn't carry any Phoenix, and doesn't shoot much anyway; neither does the rest of the flight. However, on your own, you could comfortably take on 8 enemy and win.

 

With WOE's new reliability factor, we're getting up to a 50% failure rate recorded so far. This means that you're two kills short against an enemy flight of eight. This could be interesting, since it will force you into using guns, which are pretty exciting around Tupolev bombers.

 

I guess WOE is definitely darker and edgier than the previous games in the series.