+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 This plane is great, but it behaves very strange, the input of the stick is not the output of the rudders and elevators. it seems those inputs are inverted. Is there an updated FM out?? Quote
gerald14 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 BlackBird I'll try to update the planes but if I am not busy make new migs and updating their FM's. Quote
Guest Saganuay82 Posted April 11, 2007 Posted April 11, 2007 Hey there 76, post the [AircraftData] EmptyMass=6866.00 EmptyInertia=44711.2,10996.49,55707.69 ReferenceArea=25.00 ReferenceSpan=8.4 ReferenceLength=15.30 CGPosition= <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< That line From your data.ini Just curious. Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) Ok here it is... rom the F-1C the other F-1`s have the same prob... [AircraftData] EmptyMass=7400.00 EmptyInertia=62852.38,9015.69,71868.07 ReferenceArea=25.00 ReferenceSpan=8.4 ReferenceLength=15.30 CGPosition=0.00,0.00,0.00 Component[001]=Fuselage Component[002]=Nose Component[003]=LeftWing Component[004]=RightWing Component[005]=LeftStab Component[006]=RightStab Component[007]=VertTail Component[008]=LeftOuterWing Component[009]=RightOuterWing [Fuselage] ModelNodeName=fuselage_middle ShowFromCockpit=TRUE HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE CLa=0.1024 CD0=0.0075 Cmq=-0.3723 Cmad=0.0045 Cyb=-0.1014 CLaMachTableNumData=4 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=1.000,1.000,1.000,0.782 CD0MachTableNumData=7 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=0.982,1.000,1.059,2.536,2.054,1.830,1.671 CmqMachTableNumData=4 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=1.000,1.000,1.000,23.468 MaxExtentPosition=-0.6,1.0,0.7 MinExtentPosition= 0.5,-7.3,-0.4 CollisionPoint[001]= 0.94, 2.73,-0.54 CollisionPoint[002]=-0.94, 2.73,-0.54 CollisionPoint[003]= 0.75, 2.73, 0.30 CollisionPoint[004]=-0.75, 2.73, 0.30 CollisionPoint[005]= 0.00,-6.88,-0.41 CollisionPoint[006]= 0.00,-6.88, 0.38 CollisionPoint[007]= 0.59,-6.88,-0.24 CollisionPoint[008]=-0.59,-6.88,-0.24 DamageRating=DESTROYED SystemName[001]=Engine SystemName[002]=CenterlineStation SystemName[003]=Airbrake_R SystemName[004]=Airbrake_L SystemName[005]=FwdUpperFuelCell SystemName[006]=FwdLowerFuelCell SystemName[007]=IntermediateFuelCell SystemName[008]=AftFuelCell SystemName[009]=Canopy SystemName[010]=AirTake SystemName[011]=LeftMainGear SystemName[012]=RightMainGear SystemName[013]=CenterlineStationbis [Nose] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=Nose ShowFromCockpit=FALSE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.235 HasAeroCoefficients=FALSE MaxExtentPosition=-0.45,7.5,0.7 MinExtentPosition= 0.45,1.0,-0.42 CollisionPoint[001]= 0.37,8.00,-0.84 CollisionPoint[002]=-0.37,8.00,-0.84 CollisionPoint[003]=-0.43,8.06,-0.23 CollisionPoint[004]=-0.43,8.06,-0.23 CollisionPoint[005]= 0.00,4.04, 1.09 SystemName[001]=InternalGun1 SystemName[002]=InternalGun2 SystemName[003]=Pilot SystemName[004]=NoseGear SystemName[005]=Perche SystemName[006]=BottomFuselageLight SystemName[007]=TopFuselageLight [LeftWing] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=LeftWing DestroyedNodeName=LWdamaged ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.111 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CLa=0.4820 CD0=0.0013 CDL=0.0014 Cmq=-0.2178 Cmad=0.0121 Cyb=-0.0205 Clb=-0.0806 Clp=-0.0583 Clr=0.0152 Cnb=-0.1262 Cnp=0.0020 Cnr=-0.0038 CLaMachTableNumData=4 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.993,1.000,1.022,1.096 CD0MachTableNumData=7 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.818,1.000,1.042,2.339,1.566,1.308,1.164 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=49.000,36.000,25.000,16.000,9.000,4.000,1.000,0.000,1.000,4.000,9.000,16.000,25.000,36.000,49.000 CmqMachTableNumData=4 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.865,1.000,1.918,-4.332 ClbAlphaTableNumData=15 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClbAlphaTableData=-1.300,-1.012,-0.725,-0.437,-0.150,0.138,0.425,0.713,1.000,1.287,1.575,1.862,2.150,2.437,2.725 ClpAlphaTableNumData=15 ClpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClpAlphaTableData=1.808,1.589,1.404,1.252,1.135,1.050,1.000,0.983,1.000,1.050,1.135,1.252,1.404,1.589,1.808 ClrAlphaTableNumData=15 ClrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClrAlphaTableData=-7.000,-6.000,-5.000,-4.000,-3.000,-2.000,-1.000,0.000,1.000,2.000,3.000,4.000,5.000,6.000,7.000 CnpAlphaTableNumData=15 CnpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnpAlphaTableData=-16.542,-11.824,-8.264,-5.607,-3.635,-2.157,-1.000,0.000,1.000,2.157,3.635,5.607,8.264,11.824,16.542 CnrAlphaTableNumData=15 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnrAlphaTableData=40.808,30.026,20.904,13.440,7.635,3.488,1.000,0.171,1.000,3.488,7.635,13.440,20.904,30.026,40.808 XacMachTableNumData=4 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.40 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=0.426,0.434,0.496,-0.048 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.3501 AlphaStall=34.58 AlphaMax=42.53 AlphaDepart=49.40 Ymac=-1.16 MaxExtentPosition= -2.0,-3.5,0.4 MinExtentPosition= -0.5,0.5,0.8 CollisionPoint[001]=-3.93,-0.65,-0.53 CollisionPoint[002]=-2.50,-3.03,-0.53 SystemName[001]=LeftFlap SystemName[002]=LeftWingStation2 SystemName[003]=LeftSlat SystemName[004]=LeftWingFuelCell SystemName[005]=LeftSpoiler SystemName[006]=LeftWingStation2bis [RightWing] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=RightWing DestroyedNodeName=RWDamaged ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.111 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CLa=0.4820 CD0=0.0013 CDL=0.0014 Cmq=-0.2178 Cmad=0.0121 Cyb=-0.0205 Clb=-0.0806 Clp=-0.0583 Clr=0.0152 Cnb=-0.1262 Cnp=0.0020 Cnr=-0.0038 CLaMachTableNumData=4 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.993,1.000,1.022,1.096 CD0MachTableNumData=7 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.818,1.000,1.042,2.339,1.566,1.308,1.164 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=49.000,36.000,25.000,16.000,9.000,4.000,1.000,0.000,1.000,4.000,9.000,16.000,25.000,36.000,49.000 CmqMachTableNumData=4 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.865,1.000,1.918,-4.332 ClbAlphaTableNumData=15 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClbAlphaTableData=-1.300,-1.012,-0.725,-0.437,-0.150,0.138,0.425,0.713,1.000,1.287,1.575,1.862,2.150,2.437,2.725 ClpAlphaTableNumData=15 ClpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClpAlphaTableData=1.808,1.589,1.404,1.252,1.135,1.050,1.000,0.983,1.000,1.050,1.135,1.252,1.404,1.589,1.808 ClrAlphaTableNumData=15 ClrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClrAlphaTableData=-7.000,-6.000,-5.000,-4.000,-3.000,-2.000,-1.000,0.000,1.000,2.000,3.000,4.000,5.000,6.000,7.000 CnpAlphaTableNumData=15 CnpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnpAlphaTableData=-16.542,-11.824,-8.264,-5.607,-3.635,-2.157,-1.000,0.000,1.000,2.157,3.635,5.607,8.264,11.824,16.542 CnrAlphaTableNumData=15 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnrAlphaTableData=40.808,30.026,20.904,13.440,7.635,3.488,1.000,0.171,1.000,3.488,7.635,13.440,20.904,30.026,40.808 XacMachTableNumData=4 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.40 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=0.426,0.434,0.496,-0.048 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.3501 AlphaStall=34.58 AlphaMax=42.53 AlphaDepart=49.40 Ymac=1.16 MaxExtentPosition= 2.0,-3.5,0.4 MinExtentPosition= 0.5,0.5,0.8 CollisionPoint[001]=3.93,-0.65,-0.53 CollisionPoint[002]=2.50,-3.03,-0.53 SystemName[001]=RightFlap SystemName[002]=RightWingStation2 SystemName[003]=RightSlat SystemName[004]=RightWingFuelCell SystemName[005]=RightSpoiler SystemName[006]=RightWingStation2bis [LeftOuterWing] ParentComponentName=LeftWing ModelNodeName=LeftOuterWing DestroyedNodeName=LOWdamaged ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.037 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=0.0350 CLa=0.7643 CD0=0.0009 CDL=0.0035 Cmq=-0.1393 Cmad=-0.0306 Clb=0.0270 Clp=-0.0699 Clr=0.0428 Cnb=0.0758 Cnp=0.0037 Cnr=-0.0057 CL0MachTableNumData=4 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=0.971,1.000,1.113,1.194 CLaMachTableNumData=4 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.959,1.000,1.158,1.244 CD0MachTableNumData=4 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.533,1.000,1.047,15.740 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=23.619,17.016,11.491,7.045,3.678,1.390,0.181,0.051,1.000,3.028,6.134,10.320,15.585,21.928,29.350 CmqMachTableNumData=4 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.880,1.000,1.948,11.929 ClbAlphaTableNumData=15 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClbAlphaTableData=0.117,0.227,0.338,0.448,0.559,0.669,0.779,0.890,1.000,1.110,1.221,1.331,1.441,1.552,1.662 ClpAlphaTableNumData=15 ClpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClpAlphaTableData=9.577,7.132,5.078,3.418,2.149,1.273,0.790,0.699,1.000,1.694,2.780,4.259,6.130,8.393,11.049 ClrAlphaTableNumData=15 ClrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClrAlphaTableData=-4.833,-4.104,-3.375,-2.646,-1.917,-1.187,-0.458,0.271,1.000,1.729,2.458,3.187,3.917,4.646,5.375 CnpAlphaTableNumData=15 CnpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnpAlphaTableData=-90.333,-56.223,-32.643,-17.241,-8.000,-3.136,-1.025,-0.141,1.000,3.886,10.060,21.173,39.048,65.757,103.727 CnrAlphaTableNumData=15 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnrAlphaTableData=16.448,11.706,7.767,4.631,2.298,0.769,0.043,0.120,1.000,2.683,5.170,8.460,12.553,17.450,23.149 XacMachTableNumData=4 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.40 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-0.263,-0.264,-0.294,-0.859 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.4904 AlphaStall=16.15 AlphaMax=22.04 AlphaDepart=28.92 Ymac=-2.12 MaxExtentPosition=-4.0,-4.0,0.4 MinExtentPosition=-2.1,-1.0,0.7 CollisionPoint[001]=-6.64,-3.74,-0.53 CollisionPoint[002]=-6.61,-5.14,-0.53 HasVortexEmitter=TRUE VortexEmitterName=WingtipVortexEmitter VortexPosition=-4.0,-3.8,0.55 VortexG=2.5 SystemName[001]=LeftAileron SystemName[002]=SidewinderStation2 SystemName[003]=LeftWingStation1 SystemName[004]=LeftOuterSlat SystemName[005]=LeftPositionLight SystemName[006]=LeftOuterFlap SystemName[007]=LeftOuterSpoiler SystemName[008]=LeftPositionLight2 SystemName[009]=LeftWingStationSide1 [RightOuterWing] ParentComponentName=RightWing ModelNodeName=RightOuterWing DestroyedNodeName=ROWdamaged ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.037 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=0.0350 CLa=0.7643 CD0=0.0009 CDL=0.0035 Cmq=-0.1393 Cmad=-0.0306 Clb=0.0270 Clp=-0.0699 Clr=0.0428 Cnb=0.0758 Cnp=0.0037 Cnr=-0.0057 CL0MachTableNumData=4 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=0.971,1.000,1.113,1.194 CLaMachTableNumData=4 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.959,1.000,1.158,1.244 CD0MachTableNumData=4 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.533,1.000,1.047,15.740 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=23.619,17.016,11.491,7.045,3.678,1.390,0.181,0.051,1.000,3.028,6.134,10.320,15.585,21.928,29.350 CmqMachTableNumData=4 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.880,1.000,1.948,11.929 ClbAlphaTableNumData=15 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClbAlphaTableData=0.117,0.227,0.338,0.448,0.559,0.669,0.779,0.890,1.000,1.110,1.221,1.331,1.441,1.552,1.662 ClpAlphaTableNumData=15 ClpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClpAlphaTableData=9.577,7.132,5.078,3.418,2.149,1.273,0.790,0.699,1.000,1.694,2.780,4.259,6.130,8.393,11.049 ClrAlphaTableNumData=15 ClrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClrAlphaTableData=-4.833,-4.104,-3.375,-2.646,-1.917,-1.187,-0.458,0.271,1.000,1.729,2.458,3.187,3.917,4.646,5.375 CnpAlphaTableNumData=15 CnpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnpAlphaTableData=-90.333,-56.223,-32.643,-17.241,-8.000,-3.136,-1.025,-0.141,1.000,3.886,10.060,21.173,39.048,65.757,103.727 CnrAlphaTableNumData=15 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnrAlphaTableData=16.448,11.706,7.767,4.631,2.298,0.769,0.043,0.120,1.000,2.683,5.170,8.460,12.553,17.450,23.149 XacMachTableNumData=4 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.40 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-0.263,-0.264,-0.294,-0.859 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.4904 AlphaStall=16.15 AlphaMax=22.04 AlphaDepart=28.92 Ymac=2.12 MaxExtentPosition=4.0,-4.0,0.4 MinExtentPosition=2.1,-1.0,0.7 CollisionPoint[001]=6.64,-3.74,-0.53 CollisionPoint[002]=6.61,-5.14,-0.53 HasVortexEmitter=TRUE VortexEmitterName=WingtipVortexEmitter VortexPosition=4.0,-3.8,0.55 VortexG=2.5 SystemName[001]=RightAileron SystemName[002]=SidewinderStation1 SystemName[003]=RightWingStation1 SystemName[004]=RightOuterSlat SystemName[005]=RightPositionLight SystemName[006]=RightOuterFlap SystemName[007]=RightOuterSpoiler SystemName[008]=RightPositionLight2 SystemName[009]=RightWingStationSide1 [VertTail] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=VertTail DestroyedNodeName=VTdamaged ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DESTROYED MassFraction=0.058 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE CD0=0.0009 Cyb=-0.3848 Cyp=0.0285 Cyr=0.4093 Clb=-0.0007 Clr=0.0008 Cnb=0.2046 Cnp=-0.0152 Cnr=-1.1912 CD0MachTableNumData=5 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.861,1.000,1.007,2.052,2.075 ClbAlphaTableNumData=15 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClbAlphaTableData=146.829,130.212,433.298,334.687,240.272,148.968,60.124,20.214,1.000,-18.219,-37.349,-56.297,-74.970,-93.279,-111.133 ClrAlphaTableNumData=15 ClrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClrAlphaTableData=124.236,114.749,103.028,89.302,73.837,56.936,38.927,20.159,1.000,-18.179,-37.004,-55.109,-72.141,-87.769,-101.689 CnbAlphaTableNumData=15 CnbAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnbAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnbAlphaTableData=0.846,0.881,0.912,0.938,0.960,0.977,0.990,0.997,1.000,0.998,0.991,0.979,0.962,0.941,0.915 CnpAlphaTableNumData=15 CnpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnpAlphaTableData=-5.576,-5.045,-4.403,-3.660,-2.833,-1.935,-0.985,0.000,1.000,1.996,2.968,3.898,4.767,5.558,6.255 CnrAlphaTableNumData=15 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.131,0.142,0.401,0.557,0.696,0.818,0.922,1.006,1.000,0.973,0.856,0.720,0.565,0.392,0.153 MaxExtentPosition= 0.08,-2.98,3.57 MinExtentPosition= -0.08,-5.07,0.44 CollisionPoint[001]= 0.00,-7.13,3.59 CollisionPoint[002]= 0.00,-7.99,3.52 SystemName[001]=Rudder SystemName[002]=TailLightLeft SystemName[003]=TailLightRight [LeftStab] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=LeftStab DestroyedNodeName=LSdamaged //ModelNodeName=LSdamaged //DestroyedNodeName=LeftStab ShowFromCockpit=FALSE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.012 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=-0.0108 CLa=0.1685 CD0=0.0007 Cmq=-1.7825 Cmad=-0.8818 Cyb=-0.0109 Clp=-0.0025 Cnb=0.0055 CL0MachTableNumData=5 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=0.986,1.000,1.037,1.020,0.851 CLaMachTableNumData=5 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=1.001,1.000,0.979,0.910,0.938 CD0MachTableNumData=5 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.825,1.000,1.028,2.494,2.773 CmqMachTableNumData=5 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.971,1.000,1.107,1.261,0.873 ClpAlphaTableNumData=15 ClpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClpAlphaTableData=1.474,1.361,1.264,1.182,1.115,1.063,1.027,1.006,1.000,1.009,1.034,1.074,1.129,1.200,1.285 XacMachTableNumData=5 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.40 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-5.756,-5.764,-5.785,-6.117,-6.236 QrAlphaTableNumData=15 QrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 QrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 QrAlphaTableData=1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,0.899 Ymac=-1.21 MovingSurface=TRUE ControlSystemID=1 MaxExtentPosition= -2.2,-7.5,0.15 MinExtentPosition= -0.75,-5.0,0.5 CollisionPoint[001]=-0.75,-5.00,-0.15 CollisionPoint[002]=-2.20,-7.50,-0.15 DummyComponent=TRUE ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE SystemName[001]=LeftStabilizer [RightStab] ParentComponentName=Fuselage ModelNodeName=RightStab DestroyedNodeName=RSdamaged //ModelNodeName=RSdamaged //DestroyedNodeName=RightStab ShowFromCockpit=False DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.012 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=-0.0108 CLa=0.1685 CD0=0.0007 Cmq=-1.7825 Cmad=-0.8818 Cyb=-0.0109 Clp=-0.0025 Cnb=0.0055 CL0MachTableNumData=5 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=0.986,1.000,1.037,1.020,0.851 CLaMachTableNumData=5 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=1.001,1.000,0.979,0.910,0.938 CD0MachTableNumData=5 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.40 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=1.825,1.000,1.028,2.494,2.773 CmqMachTableNumData=5 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.40 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.971,1.000,1.107,1.261,0.873 ClpAlphaTableNumData=15 ClpAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 ClpAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 ClpAlphaTableData=1.474,1.361,1.264,1.182,1.115,1.063,1.027,1.006,1.000,1.009,1.034,1.074,1.129,1.200,1.285 XacMachTableNumData=5 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.40 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-5.756,-5.764,-5.785,-6.117,-6.236 QrAlphaTableNumData=15 QrAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 QrAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 QrAlphaTableData=1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,1.000,0.899 Ymac=1.21 MovingSurface=TRUE ControlSystemID=1 MaxExtentPosition=2.2,-7.5,0.15 MinExtentPosition=0.75,-5.0,0.5 CollisionPoint[001]=0.75,-5.00,-0.15 CollisionPoint[002]=2.20,-7.50,-0.15 DummyComponent=TRUE ReverseModelOrientation=FALSE SystemName[001]=RightStabilizer Edited April 12, 2007 by 76.IAP-Blackbird Quote
Guest Saganuay82 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Nope, what I was looking for was the CG positon that I show you in my post. In the F1, it was not set to all zeros. I found that if it wasn't set to all zeros the plane would fly badly. What do you mean? "the input of the stick is not the output of the rudders and elevators." Your controls are backwards? You pull up and you dive? Quote
Gunrunner Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Sag, I already found the problem with the Mirage F1 and posted it on C6. I'll repost the english part here, it doesn't mean the F1 doesn't deserve a new and better FM, but at least you can fly it without the added roll : Doesn't work for me (with Hard FM), after a few trials and before looking at the .INI I note the following : 1) Ground instability is only induced by the boucing, when boucing stops the plane doesn't deviate right or left (except at speeds high enough for aerodynamics to kick in). 2) In-flight instability is linked to the presence of wintips missiles at take off (with missiles there is an extra right roll, without the plane is stable). 3) The roll is not linked to the type of missiles used, it happens with Sidewinders and Magics. 4) Even after firing the missiles, the roll persists. 5) Moving the GC of the F.1C200 doesn't change a thing for the right roll. 6) The Mirage F.1C (v1.6) has exactly the same problem. After looking at the .INI : 1) Bouncing is only due to the gear shock and spring factors and could be easily corrected by copying the values from the Mirage F.1C (v1.6), but it doesn't change a thing for the aerodynamic roll. 2) Aerodynamic data for both versions are identical except for the GC position (in reality the Mirage F.1C200 is longer by 7cm, a tad heavier and his GC is slightly different). Hypothesis : Missile rails have an adverse aerodynamic effect. After checking the appropriate .INI section, I find this : [sidewinderStation1] [...] PylonDragArea=0.04 [...] [sidewinderStation2] [...] PylonDragArea=0.02 [...] And guess what, after correction (I set both values at 0.03) on both versions... The damn things are flying straight whatever the payload. Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 Ok, that was one of the things.. thx for corrections!! The other one is, when you look at the rudder on both wings (outsideview F5 ist the best) and move the stick from left to right and back and again.. look at the animation of the rudder.. It doesn`t look right cause the one side behaves like the other one.. it`s nor invers.. Ok it might be nutpickin... Can I change this with ini corrections too?? or do I need "reanimate" it??? Quote
Gunrunner Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 So, if I understand correctly... the plane react aerodynamically in the right way to the inputs... BUT there is an animation problem, some aerodynamic surfaces moving when they shouldn't ? I must say I never noticed it and won't be able to test it until sunday. I'm also confused by the terminology you're using... What to you is the rudder (the rudder is not influenced at all by the stick, it's the moving part of the vertical stab, you use your feet to move it) ? Just in case, a quick and simplified view of the controls/aerodynamics of the F1 : Yaw is controlled by your feet, it moves the rudder on the vertical stab. Roll is controlled by moving the stick right/left, it moves the ailerons on the wings. Pitch is controlled by moving the stick up/down, it moves the stabs. Stabs AFAIR always move identically. From what I gather you're speaking of either the stabs or the ailerons. One thing to know with the Mirage F1 (IIRC) is that unlike some other planes, the stabs are only used to control pitch, and not roll. The ailerons are used for roll. If by moving the stick you are slightly moving up or down in addition to left/right, it would move both the ailerons and stabs giving the impression that something IS wrong with the stabs when it is not. If you are speaking of the ailerons and they are always moving identically on both wings whichever side you're rolling, then something is seriously wrong. And probably with the animation since the ini you posted seems ok. Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 Ah damn this happens when you use more than 4 languages in 5 mins, you confuse yourself.. I mean the ailerons on the wings.<---- that`s right the plane now behaves right after the corrections of the drag on the sidewinderstations. But the animation isn`t right of the ailerons... The input and output in the game is right only the animations seems to be incorrect that`s all. I thought the instability hast something to do with with those animations.. but now all is repaired and the bird fliys straight... Thx for your patience!!! Quote
Guest Saganuay82 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 OK, well I'll try that pylon fix for the F1. Set it to 0.03? I'll try it on my modded CT. For all concerned, I wouldn't bother putting much more work into this model. The Mirage factory is working on a new F1 Mirage. Should take away all of your problems. Quote
Gunrunner Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) No trouble, I just wanted to be sure I understood the problem. I'll post the problem on the C6 forums in case anyone has an idea or BPAO has a quick answer. BTW, is the animation problem present on both variants, or only on one, which version are you using (strangely the v1.5 is the most common on the net but there is a v1.6 at Column5 which corrects a few problems) ? Sag> The value for the drag area is not that important as long as both pylon have the same, I chose 0.03 because it added to the same total drag area while being balanced. Given the somewhat perfectionnist nature of the MF nowadays, it might be some time before a release of the new F1... Edited April 12, 2007 by Gunrunner Quote
Guest Saganuay82 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Works great, I can just tap the nose up now on take off and it will climb and I can watch it from the tower. Amazing how a pylon drag can affect the aircraft that much. I remember the problem with the CG was that if it wasn't all at zeros that when you pulled up you would have a bad slewing with the tail section like it was over weighted. It looks good over the new desert tiles and the Target Zone has so much more to hit. Target that time was a comm tower on top of a mountain. Quote
+NeverEnough Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) It's great to hear the Mirage Factory is working on a new Mirage F1. I really love the lines on the F1, and adding the Kfir cockpit kicks it up a notch. Thanks for the trouble-shooting on the FM fixes! Edited April 12, 2007 by NeverEnough Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) The animation issue is on all models, I think I use the v1.5.. have a C and a C200 I made from the C200 an EM Version for the spain AF.. and I use a Mirage III Pit! @Sag where can I find this great skin??? saw some Pics and like it!!! Edited April 12, 2007 by 76.IAP-Blackbird Quote
+76.IAP-Blackbird Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 Can you please upload it here at CA... ?? And wich Pit fits better? the one from the Kfir or from Mirage III??? Would be cool to know it cause I want to modify it and resave this bird as a finished one.... have my own libary here Quote
Guest Saganuay82 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 At C6 there was a thread on the CT. A guy I think had a link there for a CT that he had made. He was using the SuE pit and it had the modern avionics with it. Send me a PM and I'll send you the skin. Quote
+Typhoid Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 I noticed the controls on the F-1 were off too. It didn't act right. that doesn't mean that if you rolled left it didn't, etc., it means that it was very unstable and did not respond as an aircraft should. on my system I tweaked the ailerons and that smoothed it out some using some other Mirage's as a guide. its still not quite right, but acceptable. a new FM or substantially reworked one would be nice. Quote
+JediMaster Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 He almost made it sound like the ailerons weren't moving differentially but linked. So that for instance, push stick left and BOTH went up, push stick right and BOTH went down. Quote
Gunrunner Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Typhoid> The only real problems with the FM are the pylon drag (inducing a left roll when wingtips rails are present) and the CG (which tends to make it harder to fly but not in my opinion "vicious"). Solutions to both problems are in this thread Jedi Master> That's exactly what Blackbird means, but only as far as animation is concerned. Quote
+Fubar512 Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Typhoid> The only real problems with the FM are the pylon drag (inducing a left roll when wingtips rails are present) and the CG (which tends to make it harder to fly but not in my opinion "vicious").Solutions to both problems are in this thread And now, an important message from one of our sponsers To all noobs and aspiring virtual aerodynamicists.... when someone mentions that flight characteristics are inaccurate or poor because of the model's COG (center of gravity) being off, they hopefully know enough not to start playing with this value, which is in the aircraft data section of the model's data.ini file: CGPosition=0.00,-1.00,0.00 For all intents and purposes, this value effects the model only when it sits on its landing gear, and has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the model's flight dynamics. Anyone who tells you otherwise is sadly mistaken, and should not be listened to. Thank You...this has been a public service message from the Mod Mafia Quote
Guest Saganuay82 Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Well when its set to zero and it works. Go figure. Quote
+Fubar512 Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Well when its set to zero and it works. Go figure. It doesn't matter what it was or is set to in a particular model. I'm speaking in general. Too many people have approached me and made statements such as "well, the model felt nose heavy (pitch axis), so I set the center of gravity back and now it's OK." When they say something like that, I know that they're seriously full of crap, and I have no qualms about telling them so. What they're seeking can only be adjusted by changing the CL0 or CLA values of the wings and stabs (or in the case of a delta wing, the elevons). In essence, the interrelationship between the two surfaces is what determines pitch. To prove this to yourself, set the COG of the model to some ludicrous value. such as -6, and try starting on the ground. The model will probably stand on its tail and explode. Then with the same COG settings, start in the air and tell me with a straight face that you've noticed any difference between that and what the model was set to in the first place. Quote
Guest Saganuay82 Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Well yes, thats true. I haven't yet seen any tutorials on the aerodynamics of this game. I was shown some Excel programs for it and put them away. Not for me. Biggest part is that people do not know what they are looking at in the data.ini and what the values are for. If someone would take a data.ini and add text to it to show what the parts of the aerodynamics mean, maybe some would get answers and some would get more confused but I know I would like to know what a CL0 or a CLA is and all the rest of those values are for in the ini. As for this model of the Mirage F1C-200, the F1C is set at all zeros and it works fine the F1C-200 was set to 0.00,0.75,0.00. That didn't work well. I know working with the Vautour that we need more FM makers in this community. Too bad we didn't have people in here that were willing to instruct the ways of the FM. Perhaps we as a community could find recruits. Quote
Gunrunner Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 Mmmm Fubar that was sooooo nice... I do admit my last post IS misleading... The facts are the following concerning the CG : - People had problems with one of the F1 but not the other - CG is placed differently in each version - As Sag discovered, displacing the CG solves the problems they were having Both Sag and I, separately applied the same method to correct a perceived FM problem, we checked the INIs for obvious differences, changed them, and tested them to see if they corrected the perceived problem, which they did. So yes, I should have been more circonspect when describing a problem I never experienced myself, anyway, what would that have changed ? You would have tried to ridicule Sag instead of myself, what would that have achieved anyway ? Was the goal to make sure that noone except yourself and a few select ones would dare trying to meddle with the game, lest they end up ridiculed when their empiric methods end up producing a result that you wouldn't expect working ? EDIT BY MODERATOR: since profanity is not allowed, you've just earned yourself a warning.... Quote
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