So, Super Sabres

[Jug]

I just read that the MiG-17 was mostly uncontrollable above 450 knots. The elevator is manual without hydraulic assist. The stick in the MiG-17 is longer than in most jets so the pilot can use both hands and get more leverage, but 450 is where the pilot loses elevator control.

 

If the sim has the MiG modelled correctly, throw bullets at them nose to nose, extend following the merge and get real close to the dirt. Stay above 450 and entice a tail chase which will end up with the MiG flying into the dirt or going home.

 

If you are trying to turn with the MiG-17, you're toast no matter what you're flying (of that era).

 

Keep your speed up and follow some of the suggestions on this thread. Energy is life!

[+Gepard]

I just read that the MiG-17 was mostly uncontrollable above 450 knots. The elevator is manual without hydraulic assist. The stick in the MiG-17 is longer than in most jets so the pilot can use both hands and get more leverage, but 450 is where the pilot loses elevator control.

 

This is correct and wrong at the same time. It depends on the version of the MiG-17. There were MiG-17 with hydraulic boosters for better agility at fast speeds and high altitude.

[Lt. James Cater]

Keep the speed up as much as possible and never turn with a MIG. Don't get low and slow. If you sense yourself doing so, hit burners,extend and re-engage.

[Fubar512]

The MiG-17, The MiG-15, and even the F-86 Sabre (which sports full-boosted controls), all suffer from the same handling quirk at high speeds, in that they'll drop a wing unexpectedly.

 

This occurs on the MiG-15 and '17 between 450 and 500 knots, and on the F-86 between 550 and 600. It is recoverable on all three birds.

 

What Jug's referring to is the elevator "freezing" or locking up above 450-500 knots on the MiGs, and that is due to (as Gepard stated) a lack of fully boosted controls on the MiGs. The early 17's had a telescoping stick extender built into the control stick to allow the pilot to exert additional pressure through increased leverage.

 

The Polish-built Lim-6 (a variant of the '17) is favored by collectors of old East-bloc aircraft, because its fully-boosted flight controls eliminate this.

 

The Sabres, due to their all-moving tails, do not suffer from this problem.

[JediMaster]

The late Sabres had all-moving tails, that is. Early versions had elevators and suffered it as well.

[Fubar512]

The late Sabres had all-moving tails, that is. Early versions had elevators and suffered it as well.

 

Correct, the all moving tail was intro'd with the E-model. However, all Sabre's had boosted controls, and the earlier F-86's only experienced loss of pitch authority at high-transonic speeds (Mach .97 and above).

Edited January 8, 2012 by Fubar512