MiG-9 WIP

[Guest capun]

Start with a plane with a performance similar to it as a base and then start modifying it.

 

Pay attention to the animationID's and mesh names. Gear/Wheel/Tire names are critical otherwise they'll sink/jump and explode.

 

Have the 3D Dev give you the ini file with the points helper for the pilot location, muzzle flash, weapon points, wing tip vortices, engine exhaust, etc.

[+nele 0]

Some surface deflections for MiG-9;

 

Ailerons-up 22.5, down 14.5 deg

Rudder ± 25 deg

elevators up 18, down 15 deg.

 

Great article in Russian at http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/mig9.html

 

2xRD-20 800kg thrust each

 

Nele

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Thanks fellas/fellattes.

 

This is deep stuff. The collision boxes I could come up with using the external free camera view and watching the debug display position vector numbers. Tables I fully understand, but not the different Cd variables. I guess work down the list. First are the Reference dimensions at the top which I can figure. Inertia, I don't know.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Thanks fellas/fellattes.

 

This is deep stuff. The collision boxes I could come up with using the external free camera view and watching the debug display position vector numbers. Tables I fully understand, but not the different Cd variables. I guess work down the list. First are the Reference dimensions at the top which I can figure. Inertia, I don't know.

 

The absolute best (and most expedient way) to create hit boxes is from precise measurements made off accurate 3-view drawings. They will also be of great help when computing out Xmac tables, and also, to ensure correct placement of fuel tanks and engines for damage modeling.

 

Charles wrote a brief tutorial on "guesstimating" the inertia values. You'll find it at Third Wire's site.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Charles wrote a brief tutorial on "guesstimating" the inertia values. You'll find it at Third Wire's site.

Right, I think I have that. I didn't even think of it. Thanks.

[Guest capun]

To be truly correct, You need to have access to the 3D Model to have the Collision Points and Min/Max Extent Positions since they are referenced from the 3DS Max World Center point.

 

In most cases the Wing span is centered in the X-axis, but the Y-Axis (Lenght) may not truly be centered since you are guessing where the CoG is, same applies for the Z-Axis (Height). So the placement of the Model in 3DS Max will affect the Collision Points and Min/Max Extent Positions

 

You can guess by other points defined in the data ini (usually provided by the 3D Designer) like the pilot location, decal location, etc.

[+Timmy 1]

The model is centered in max so the wings have the same relative coordinates - positive and negative values for left and right or vice versa - I can't remember which is which without looking at it.

 

If I need to extract points so Lex can place them in the ini I'll be happy to do it.

[Wrench 9,850]

Timmy: I've 2 versions of the Fargo hangar screen ready, the original which has a pic of 9L trainer, and one without.

 

I'll get them uploaded later today, and send you a link via PM, so you'll have both to choose from.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Timmy, the collison box points would be fine. Thanks.

 

Wrench, those -9 screens, the old ones from long ago? They have been looking for a home for a long time.

[dsawan 624]

Bump! looks good.

[Sgt.KAR98 0]

Great!

Just 1 more MiG to complete the family.

[dsawan 624]

How goes this one?

[Fubar512 1,350]

How goes this one?

 

By the thrust of two RD-20s

[+Timmy 1]

I've got it mapped - just have to paint the skin when I get a spare minute.

[+Timmy 1]

Thanks to the awesome new program by p10ppy I now have min/max extent positions on the mig.

 

 

Fuselage

MinExtentPosition=-0.733,-4.84,-1.176

MaxExtentPosition=0.733,1.333,0.351

 

Nose

MinExtentPosition=-0.803,1.329,-1.215

MaxExtentPosition=0.803,4.411,0.335

 

RightCannonCover

MinExtentPosition=0.307,3.743,-0.994

MaxExtentPosition=0.415,4.287,-0.869

 

RightCannon

MinExtentPosition=0.337,4.191,-0.965

MaxExtentPosition=0.397,5.084,-0.905

 

LeftCannonCover

MinExtentPosition=-0.423,3.743,-0.994

MaxExtentPosition=-0.315,4.287,-0.869

 

LeftCannon

MinExtentPosition=-0.397,4.191,-0.965

MaxExtentPosition=-0.337,5.084,-0.905

 

Cannon

MinExtentPosition=-0.059,4.317,-0.447

MaxExtentPosition=0.059,5.448,-0.32

 

Windscreen

MinExtentPosition=-0.309,2.616,0.179

MaxExtentPosition=0.309,3.174,0.532

 

FrontGlass

MinExtentPosition=-0.297,2.644,0.217

MaxExtentPosition=0.297,3.154,0.509

 

Fronttop

MinExtentPosition=-0.069,2.666,0.496

MaxExtentPosition=0.069,2.705,0.524

 

CanopyFrame

MinExtentPosition=-0.34,1.29,0.179

MaxExtentPosition=0.34,2.647,0.541

 

Bubble

MinExtentPosition=-0.322,1.345,0.234

MaxExtentPosition=0.322,2.63,0.558

 

Headrest

MinExtentPosition=-0.076,1.869,0.299

MaxExtentPosition=0.076,1.894,0.443

 

AntennaBase

MinExtentPosition=0.359,2.001,0.104

MaxExtentPosition=0.442,2.092,0.171

 

Antenna

MinExtentPosition=0.372,1.672,0.077

MaxExtentPosition=0.731,2.117,0.768

 

NoseDoor

MinExtentPosition=-0.088,3.671,-1.052

MaxExtentPosition=0.088,3.993,-0.981

 

RightNoseDoor

MinExtentPosition=0.0,2.79,-1.137

MaxExtentPosition=0.171,3.671,-1.043

 

LeftNoseDoor

MinExtentPosition=-0.171,2.79,-1.137

MaxExtentPosition=0.0,3.671,-1.043

 

NoseStrut

MinExtentPosition=-0.035,3.699,-0.833

MaxExtentPosition=0.035,3.961,-0.7

 

CastoringNode

MinExtentPosition=-0.035,3.462,-0.979

MaxExtentPosition=0.035,3.739,-0.765

 

NoseFork

MinExtentPosition=-0.105,3.23,-0.987

MaxExtentPosition=0.106,3.553,-0.668

 

NoseWheel

MinExtentPosition=-0.068,2.991,-0.988

MaxExtentPosition=0.068,3.533,-0.445

 

Cockpit

MinExtentPosition=-0.33,1.827,-0.507

MaxExtentPosition=0.33,2.788,0.316

 

GunsightMount

MinExtentPosition=-0.044,2.571,0.214

MaxExtentPosition=0.044,2.651,0.247

 

Gunsight

MinExtentPosition=-0.04,2.579,0.225

MaxExtentPosition=0.04,2.693,0.373

 

GunGlass

MinExtentPosition=-0.032,2.633,0.367

MaxExtentPosition=0.032,2.684,0.454

 

Gunsightreflector

MinExtentPosition=-0.035,2.618,0.344

MaxExtentPosition=0.035,2.688,0.353

 

NoseGearBay

MinExtentPosition=-0.171,2.79,-1.137

MaxExtentPosition=0.171,3.993,-0.548

 

RightScoop

MinExtentPosition=0.588,-0.29,-0.604

MaxExtentPosition=0.734,0.035,-0.414

 

RightEngine

MinExtentPosition=0.032,-0.479,-1.132

MaxExtentPosition=0.664,0.175,-0.516

 

LeftScoop

MinExtentPosition=-0.758,-0.281,-0.595

MaxExtentPosition=-0.62,0.033,-0.437

 

LeftEngine

MinExtentPosition=-0.674,-0.479,-1.132

MaxExtentPosition=-0.042,0.175,-0.516

 

LeftWing

MinExtentPosition=-2.853,-0.801,-0.494

MaxExtentPosition=-0.53,1.686,-0.149

 

LeftFlap

MinExtentPosition=-2.859,-0.716,-0.401

MaxExtentPosition=-0.833,0.275,-0.207

 

LeftWheelDoor

MinExtentPosition=-2.136,0.479,-0.417

MaxExtentPosition=-1.758,1.207,-0.356

 

LeftMainGear

MinExtentPosition=-1.448,0.957,-0.515

MaxExtentPosition=-0.714,1.037,-0.229

 

LeftMainBolt

MinExtentPosition=-1.323,1.019,-0.381

MaxExtentPosition=-1.282,1.099,-0.35

 

LeftMainFrontHy

MinExtentPosition=-1.299,1.058,-0.4

MaxExtentPosition=-0.728,1.105,-0.329

 

LeftMainBolt2

MinExtentPosition=-1.056,0.901,-0.383

MaxExtentPosition=-1.013,0.981,-0.351

 

LeftMainHinge

MinExtentPosition=-1.813,0.763,-0.407

MaxExtentPosition=-1.343,1.048,-0.334

 

LeftMainWheel

MinExtentPosition=-2.084,0.527,-0.361

MaxExtentPosition=-1.446,1.172,-0.203

 

LeftMainRearHy

MinExtentPosition=-1.363,0.869,-0.415

MaxExtentPosition=-1.037,0.96,-0.326

 

LeftGearWell

MinExtentPosition=-2.136,0.479,-0.471

MaxExtentPosition=-0.723,1.213,-0.235

 

LeftOuterWing

MinExtentPosition=-5.064,-0.149,-0.37

MaxExtentPosition=-2.849,1.605,-0.126

 

LeftAileron

MinExtentPosition=-4.82,-0.149,-0.312

MaxExtentPosition=-2.853,0.67,-0.161

 

LeftGearDoor

MinExtentPosition=-1.769,0.479,-0.471

MaxExtentPosition=-0.728,1.207,-0.368

 

VertTail

MinExtentPosition=-0.093,-4.84,0.071

MaxExtentPosition=0.093,-2.142,1.698

 

AntennaWire

MinExtentPosition=-0.007,-4.5,0.162

MaxExtentPosition=0.73,1.912,1.609

 

Rudder

MinExtentPosition=-0.082,-5.38,-0.221

MaxExtentPosition=0.082,-4.776,1.665

 

LeftStab

MinExtentPosition=-1.877,-4.864,0.443

MaxExtentPosition=0.0,-3.653,0.565

 

LeftElevator

MinExtentPosition=-1.877,-5.23,0.451

MaxExtentPosition=0.0,-4.753,0.533

 

RightStab

MinExtentPosition=0.0,-4.864,0.443

MaxExtentPosition=1.877,-3.653,0.565

 

RightElevator

MinExtentPosition=0.0,-5.23,0.451

MaxExtentPosition=1.877,-4.753,0.533

 

RightWing

MinExtentPosition=0.53,-0.801,-0.494

MaxExtentPosition=2.853,1.686,-0.149

 

RightGearWell

MinExtentPosition=0.723,0.479,-0.471

MaxExtentPosition=2.135,1.213,-0.235

 

RightFlap

MinExtentPosition=0.833,-0.716,-0.401

MaxExtentPosition=2.859,0.275,-0.207

 

RightOuterWing

MinExtentPosition=2.849,-0.149,-0.37

MaxExtentPosition=5.064,1.605,-0.126

 

RightAileron

MinExtentPosition=2.853,-0.149,-0.312

MaxExtentPosition=4.82,0.67,-0.161

 

Pitot

MinExtentPosition=4.275,1.493,-0.227

MaxExtentPosition=4.315,2.083,-0.193

 

RightGearDoor

MinExtentPosition=0.728,0.479,-0.471

MaxExtentPosition=1.769,1.207,-0.368

 

RightWheelDoor

MinExtentPosition=1.758,0.479,-0.417

MaxExtentPosition=2.136,1.207,-0.356

 

RightMainGear

MinExtentPosition=0.723,0.957,-0.417

MaxExtentPosition=1.448,1.037,-0.312

 

RightMainBolt2

MinExtentPosition=1.013,0.901,-0.383

MaxExtentPosition=1.056,0.981,-0.351

 

RightMainBolt

MinExtentPosition=1.282,1.019,-0.381

MaxExtentPosition=1.324,1.099,-0.35

 

RightMainFrontHy

MinExtentPosition=0.736,1.058,-0.4

MaxExtentPosition=1.298,1.105,-0.33

 

RightMainHinge

MinExtentPosition=1.344,0.763,-0.406

MaxExtentPosition=1.813,1.048,-0.334

 

RightMainRearHy

MinExtentPosition=1.038,0.869,-0.415

MaxExtentPosition=1.363,0.96,-0.326

 

RightMainWheel

MinExtentPosition=1.446,0.527,-0.361

MaxExtentPosition=2.084,1.172,-0.203

 

TailDest

MinExtentPosition=-0.03,-4.84,0.064

MaxExtentPosition=0.057,-3.619,0.625

 

DropTank

MinExtentPosition=-4.991,-0.034,-0.699

MaxExtentPosition=-4.571,1.966,-0.289

 

Plylon

MinExtentPosition=-4.819,0.702,-0.39

MaxExtentPosition=-4.756,1.537,-0.198

 

The last two I'm just working on as I've seen some drop tanks on a couple of pictures. I could probably use a hand on getting them into the proper format for game use.

 

Also - I'm moving this week so I have my hands full and probably will for the next couple of weeks. If anyone is interested in making the skins from the bare maps I'll be happy to send them to you.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Timmy

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

I'm back. Dropped everything SF related. I followed the StrikeFighters Editing guide and got the rather small inertia values below. The other data is from Yefim Gordon's early sov jet book.

 

The inertia values are slug-ft-ft, but isnt everything in the DATA file MKS? Initial testing shows takeoff in a bit under 2km. Yefim says 1.7km. Altitude gain is bad, but that's could be engine detail. The roll is MUCH better now (was waaayy too fast using F-80 data if I recall).

 

[AircraftData]

EmptyMass=3500

EmptyInertia=5900,9500,13000

// F-80C EmptyInertia=12213.50,7497.13,19710.62

ReferenceArea=18.2

ReferenceSpan=10.0

ReferenceLength=9.75

 

Timmy::

:

:

:

:

DropTank

MinExtentPosition=-4.991,-0.034,-0.699

MaxExtentPosition=-4.571,1.966,-0.289

 

Plylon

MinExtentPosition=-4.819,0.702,-0.39

MaxExtentPosition=-4.756,1.537,-0.198

 

The last two I'm just working on as I've seen some drop tanks on a couple of pictures. I could probably use a hand on getting them into the proper format for game use.

 

Blessed be your move. I had things come up too, plus, a little SF-esque burnout perhaps.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

MiG-9 had ten fuel tanks which is a bit deep for a survey sim, and I don't know their exact locations. So I use Pasko's existing three F-80 tanks.

 

Using 0.86kg/l for kerosene, I gave the MiG-9...

 

Fuselage tank -- 1050kg.

Wing tank -- 160kg each.

 

Total 1370kg, divided by 0.86kg/l is volume 1593l which is close to Yefim's 1595l. About 3000lb as seen in game data. I used well less than half that cruising round at full throttle at high altitude in about 3/4 hour, so some increase in fuel consumption are needed.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

MiG-9 had a pair of 260l external tanks on the wingtips. For now, I'm testing with 75gal P-51 tank (about 360 liters). I eliminated all other weapon stations, leaving only the two -- Left/Right Wing Tip Station

 

//Weapon Stations ---------------------------------------------------------

 

[LeftWingTipStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=1

StationGroupID=1

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-5.00,1.00,-0.22

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=500

AllowedWeaponClass=FT

AttachmentType=Soviet

ModelNodeName=LeftWingPylon

PylonMass=25

PylonDragArea=0.03

FuelTankName=Tank075_P51

 

[RightWingTipStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=2

StationGroupID=1

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=5.00,1.00,-0.22

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=500

AllowedWeaponClass=FT

AttachmentType=Soviet

ModelNodeName=RightWingPylon

PylonMass=25

PylonDragArea=0.03

FuelTankName=Tank075_P51

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[AirToAir]

Loadout[01].WeaponType=Tank075_P51

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=Tank075_P51

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

 

No tank pylons, but they wouldn't be visible from the cockpit anyways.

 

 

 

 

Timmy, please do NOT make external tanks perma-fixed to the external model. I believe these could be dropped if needed.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Lexx_Luthor

[+Timmy 1]

I have the tanks modeled with small pylons but can export them as a seperate lod. The thing I'm not sure about is if I need to export the pylons with the plane or also as a seperate item and then use the weps editor to put them in the game. I'll figure it out but for now I'm focused on skinning so that can wait for a bit.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

I have the tanks modeled with small pylons but can export them as a seperate lod. The thing I'm not sure about is if I need to export the pylons with the plane or also as a seperate item and then use the weps editor to put them in the game. I'll figure it out but for now I'm focused on skinning so that can wait for a bit.

If looking for shortcuts, you could probably just perma-fix the pylons as part of the model, allowing jettisonable tanks. Its only two, or are they really large? I'm reading through the Yefim book, about 1/3 of it covers the -9, so lots of reading to do. I'll look for unloaded pylons in the pics.

[+Timmy 1]

Here is what I came up with for drop tanks and pylons...

 

[Guest capun]

I have the tanks modeled with small pylons but can export them as a seperate lod. The thing I'm not sure about is if I need to export the pylons with the plane or also as a seperate item and then use the weps editor to put them in the game. I'll figure it out but for now I'm focused on skinning so that can wait for a bit.

 

You make the Pylons part of the airplane 3D Model, the tanks can be done in their own since they are a "weapon"

 

Your pylons wil be visible or invisible via the ini, if declared properly. They are visible only when you are carrying a weapon load.

What you can do with the ini files is amazing for example you can have two types of pylons in the same space, one larger pylon for bombs/fuel tanks and another for rockets/missiles. Depending on the loadout and with proper data ini entries only one get selected.

 

 

For example, this came from our Meteor F.8

 

[LeftWingStation3a]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=9

StationGroupID=1

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-3.8100,0.0000,-0.5044

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=470.0

DiameterLimit=0.7

LengthLimit=2.0

AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,FT

AttachmentType=NATO

ModelNodeName=Pylon_L ; You need to declare the pylon mesh for it to be able to be invisible w/o a load.

PylonMass=40

PylonDragArea=0.02

FuelTankName=Tank108_P51

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Wow. Timmy that's a nice drop tank and sweet pylon.

 

If you do what capun says, update me. I didn't know how this operates exactly. My Yefim book only shows pylons when the tanks are loaded -- no empty pylons in any of the pics.

[+Timmy 1]

Capun - Thanks man, you have always been tremendously helpful and have considerably shortened my model building learning curve, I am very greatful.

 

Lexx - I only have one picture of the drop tanks so I don't know if they are accurate or not but from tinkering with the model I think the pylon has to be that large so as to not interfere with the ailerons. I assure you that I will make a LOD with the pylons and one with the tanks so we can use them on the finished aircraft - I've even already mapped them both...

 

The problem lies in the fact that the real world is taking a rather large chunk out of my buttocks right now so free moments to work on the MiG are pretty much like hillbilly teeth (few and far between) right now. I'm getting it skinned slowly but anything that is going to look decent will take some time - and making a template from scratch takes quite a bit of time and trial and error - sadly, exactly what I'm lacking right now... Once I get the house in reasonable shape I'll be able to finish the MiG and reveal my other project which is about 75% complete :)

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Finish the house first. I got distracted too the last few weeks. I'm only doing little pieces of DATA file here and there, the easy stuff first. I'm in no rush here, as I can see the steep wall to climb learning this. But it does look interesting, and its stuff I kinda need to learn.