Updated MiG-17F flight model, and more....

[Fubar512]

I'm in the process of updating the MIG-17F's flight model, to one that more accurately follows the published data from the "Have Drill" evaluation performed by USAF, in 1969.

 

The new model will not only mimic loss of roll authority due to wing-warping above 460 KIAS, but will also suffer from 'Mach tuck" beyond 475 KIAS, a prelude to a total loss of pitch authority above 502 KIAS. The '17 did not have hydraulically boosted elevators, so it was all but humanly impossible to pull out of a dive in one by yanking back on the stick above that speed, even though the real aircraft often sported a retractable stick extender, just for that contingency.

 

Should have it up soon, along with a copy of the Have-Drill speed/altitude/sustained G graph, for reference.

 

I'm also playing with the tracer effects, which in my opinion, look a bit arcadish at present. I replaced the default WoV VPAF dark-red tracer with a brighter colored version, added an improved tracer-smoke effect (they should look more like smoke rings than a continuous streak of smoke), and re-sized all the tracers to more realistic values.

 

[Jimbib]

Looking good Fubar, should have fun with this one

[+suhsjake]

Cool, More accurate models. Now Are you going to do a -19 and -21 too?

[Fubar512]

Cool, More accurate models. Now Are you going to do a -19 and -21 too?

 

The 21 series was completed some time ago. The 19 still needs work .

 

Anyway, I'm at a crossroads here....

 

I can release a fairly hard core flight model for the '17F, one that can be a challenge to fly in hard mode (Mach-induced instability leading to Dutch rolls, etc.). Or, I can release a "simplified" one that is about 90% accurate, but doesn't get too nasty as you approach its limits. The latter is ready, the former may push the release back a week or so while I fine tune it.

[FastCargo]

Fubar,

 

How about both if able? Not like there is a rush ya know...take your time brother.

 

FastCargo

[kukulino]

YES, YES, YES :spartak:

GREAT NEWS

[Fubar512]

A short, though regretfully silent,video of the MiG-17F flight model in action. It also showcases the tracer effects. You may want to zoom it to full screen.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...si&img=4090

[Stratos]

Thank's Fubar!!

Really looking forward for this one!!

[JediMaster]

I'd say do both. Some people want that extra realism, some don't.

[kukulino]

A short, though regretfully silent,video of the MiG-17F flight model in action. It also showcases the tracer effects. You may want to zoom it to full screen.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...si&img=4090

Really, really nice and good I can't wait

I hope, that Mig-19 is close to release, too FM needs improvements.

Edited October 3, 2007 by kukulino

[Silverbolt]

well, are great!

just need a apropriated pit :)

[+ordway]

The new model will not only mimic loss of roll authority due to wing-warping above 460 KIAS, but will also suffer from 'Mach tuck" beyond 475 KIAS, a prelude to a total loss of pitch authority above 502 KIAS. The '17 did not have hydraulically boosted elevators, so it was all but humanly impossible to pull out of a dive in one by yanking back on the stick above that speed, even though the real aircraft often sported a retractable stick extender, just for that contingency.

 

Great idea! Thanks!

[+suhsjake]

Anyone have the link to the -21 series FM upgrades?

[+nele]

Sorry for jumping in, but...

 

I have OCR'd flight manual for entire -17 series (from non-AB, non-powered AILERONS to PFU with all-powered).

 

Quote;

 

"The forces necessary for pulling of the plane in a steep dive with extended air brakes, grow with growth of speed of a dive. At putting the plane in a dive on the maximal speed of horizontal flight at height of 14000 m speed of the plane to height about 10000 m reaches the maximal value of 1240-1250 km/hours (narrow dial) at stick forces of 30-40 kg. Keeping that stick force enables controlling the aircraft..."

 

"...from 1340-1350 km/hours (on a narrow dial) the plane reaches the maximal value of speed on a steep point of a dive at heights of 9000-11000 m at going into a dive from height of 14000 m. thus actual speed of the plane does not exceed 1230-1250 km/hours.

In spite of the fact that stick forces of airplane reaches 30 kg, the corner and speed of its dive gradually decrease. After achievement of height of 8000 m (on altimeter) the corner of a dive of the plane decreases up to 60 and speed up to 1310 km/hours..."

 

"...To observe of the index of speed at performance of a dive in case of input in a dive from a straight line it is not required. The plane at increase in speed of flight itself starts to pull from a dive. The efforts necessary to change the dive angle, reach size of 30-50 kg earlier, than the plane reaches as much as possible admissible speed of flight..."

 

"268. To dive 45-50°DEG at maximal speed of horizontal flight it is necessary to make a fast push of control stick until speed reaches value that stick forces are 50kg..."

 

That speed is 1240kph at 10,000 and 1220kph at 5,000m.

 

"...stick force necessary to pull "g" in a dive, sharply increase with growth of speed and of 10000 m at speed of 1160-1210 km/hours (on a narrow dial) reach about 50 kg on "g"unit. It means, that change of effort from pressing 25 kg up to pulling 25 kg at end of a dive at height of 10000 m at speed of 1160-1210 km/hours (on a narrow dial) creates an overload nearby 2. With reduction of speed an overload at a conclusion from a dive reduces..."

 

Long time ago, there was a discussion on rec.aviation.military, and Dave Sutton (MiG-17F owner) basically discredited that report, because the test-pilots were doing things WRONG.

 

Nele

[Fubar512]

http://www.area51specialprojects.com/haved.../fullscreen.htm

 

http://www.area51specialprojects.com/haved.../fullscreen.htm

[kukulino]

Anyone have the link to the -21 series FM upgrades?

Call gerald14

[+suhsjake]

Call gerald14

 

But I don't want to pay for long distance.

[Fubar512]

Anyone have the link to the -21 series FM upgrades?

 

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...p;showfile=1048

[+suhsjake]

TY Fubar

[kukulino]

Are they compatible with WOE, Fubar?

Or they needs easy changes in data.ini like NationName=NVietnam------------>to SOVIET

and AttachmentType=WP-------------->to SOVIET (I am using weapons pack)?

Edited October 4, 2007 by kukulino

[kukulino]

I tried PFM data.ini in WOE (with easy changes), and FM works very good, I think

 

But I found topic obout Mig-21 PFM HERE!

And there are not the same values for PFM than in your pack, Fubar. That topic is younger than uploaded and modified pack 21 FMs.

Is somewhere new version of your 21 FMs pack, or it is single update for PFM in that topic?

THANX

[Fubar512]

I tried PFM data.ini in WOE (with easy changes), and FM works very good, I think

 

But I found topic obout Mig-21 PFM HERE!

And there are not the same values for PFM than in your pack, Fubar. That topic is younger than uploaded and modified pack 21 FMs.

Is somewhere new version of your 21 FMs pack, or it is single update for PFM in that topic?

THANX

 

LOL..I guess you can say, "BUSTED!"

 

I've been updating the '21 series FMs all along, and yes, I have newer versions. I'll put them together when I get some free time and upload them for you.

[kukulino]

LOL..I guess you can say, "BUSTED!"

 

I've been updating the '21 series FMs all along, and yes, I have newer versions. I'll put them together when I get some free time and upload them for you.

Ouuuu... I am sorry

But I can't wait

There is very good F-13 mod from gerald14, and 21 MF mods too (but I don't know, where are geralds 21 MF mods exactly placed now. There was hi res skin for my country - Slovakia. Not only, of course)

Your PFM FModel is great, and as you wrote, it will be better (Pf and PFV too)

My english is not the best, so I hope you understand me

Realy can't wait

THANX for reply Fubar :yes:

Edited October 4, 2007 by kukulino

[Fubar512]

Ouuuu... I am sorry

But I can't wait

There is very good F-13 mod from gerald14, and 21 MF mods too (but I don't know, where are geralds 21 MF mods exactly placed now)

Your PFM FModel is good, and as you wrote, it will be better (Pf and PFV too)

My english is not the best, so I hope you understand me

Realy can't wait

THANX for reply Fubar :yes:

 

Regarding the F13, I suggest that you try the Mirage Factory's MiG-21F13. It's FM was penned by Kreelin and myself, and the 3D model (by Flying Toaster) is a lot better than the default Strike Fighters, WoV, or WoE model.

[+suhsjake]

MORE FMs Mr. Fubar, or else.