Chaffs/flares for Mig-21/23 serries?

[Jarhead1]

I am a Foxbat pilot myself, that is my Mig of choice

[kukulino]

I love MiG/Su fighters too. I spend many times in Woe to take out Western fighters ;-) I have few questions.

How add missile rails (like apu-23?) to MiG-23 pylons? This is old MiG-23mf model from Mirage Factory.

I take him because stock MiG-23 from Thirdwire have some bugs.

Second - Are there any properly fuel tanks for this MiG type. MiG-23 (and 27 too) carry 800litres fuel tank in center pylon and another 800litres tanks (another model) under wing pylons. Stock weapons and weapons pack does'nt have it. Can someone model this tanks?

1. APU-23 ------ you need modeller, I think. Or try improvisation. Better than nothink. Look in WEAPONDATA.ini find R-23

 

[WeaponDataXXXX]

TypeName=R-23R

FullName=R-23R Apex-A

ModelName=R23R

Mass=223.000000

Diameter=0.200000

Length=4.060000

AttachmentType=SOVIET,YUGOSLAVIA

NationName=Soviet

StartYear=1973

EndYear=2020

Availability=1

BaseQuantity=40

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1973

ExportEndYear=2020

ExportAvailability=1

WeaponDataType=1

RailLaunched=FALSE<<<<<<<---------HERE! Change to TRUE

RocketPod=FALSE

Retarded=FALSE

Streamlined=TRUE

FinStabilized=TRUE

SpinStabilized=FALSE

HasGrowl=FALSE

EffectClassName=MediumMissileEffects

ReleaseDelay=1.000000

WarheadType=0

Explosives=40.000000

FusingDistance=2.000000

ClusterBomblets=0

ClusterDispersion=0.000000

GuidanceType=12

Accuracy=70

MaxTurnRate=15.000000

MaxLaunchG=2.500000

LockonChance=70

LaunchReliability=75

ArmingTime=2.000000

SeekerFOV=5.000000

SeekerGimbleLimit=46.000000

SeekerTrackRate=12.000000

SeekerRange=35000.000000

MinLaunchRange=6000.000000

MaxLaunchRange=35000.000000

Duration=80.000000

CounterCountermeasure=75.000000

NoiseRejection=50.000000

CapabilityFlags=0x00000000

BoosterStart=0.500000

BoosterDuration=2.000000

BoosterAccel=19.500000

BoosterEffectName=MissileFireEffect

BoosterSoundName=Missile

BoosterNodeName=

BoosterPosition=0.000000,-1.835150,0.000000

SustainerDuration=0.000000

SustainerAccel=0.000000

SustainerEffectName=

SustainerSoundName=

SustainerPosition=0.000000,-1.835150,0.000000

InFlightEffectName=MissileInFlightEffect

InFlightSoundName=

ReleaseAnimationID=-1

EODisplayFlags=0

 

Than open WEPONDATA.ini with weapon editor and save. Than close weapon editor. I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS STEP IS NECESSARY, I DID IT AND PYLONS WORKS CORRECTLY IN GAME.

 

Like I sad, better than nothing. I did it for S-24 too.

 

2. You need modeller too. Or try 800L fueltanks for Mig-21. 800L fueltank is included in WEAPODATA.ini. I saw there Tank790_MiG23 too.

 

So, if you want, try! :yes:

Edited October 27, 2007 by kukulino

[kukulino]

I am a Foxbat pilot myself, that is my Mig of choice

I sad it many times before: EVERY MIG IS GOOD MIG

[Fubar512]

OK, we have:

 

to get SM SPS-141 ECM pod with ASO-21-E7P chaffs/flares dispenser (for modders too, we have no drawning)

 

Try here: http://www.ciromodels.com/SPS-141en.htm

[Wrench]

I've been using the Su-7 tank, not the right size, but workable. Even after all this time, there are still some error in the WepPak. But we're slowly working on it!!

 

Nice find on the launch rail, kukulino!!!

 

Thinking more along the llines of a 'hidden' pod, you'll have to use the shape of something pre-existing...mayb my faked-up camera pod for the Starfighter (which makes another appearence in the F-110A Wraith.) You just need to hide the lod -inside- the existing camera pod (ReconPod_MiG21), using the 2ndary or mirrore hardpoint.

 

this is just a quick look, so don't hold me to accuracy...

 

Ths is off the 21R in my WoE install:

 

standard centerline station:

 

[CenterlineStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=5

StationGroupID=3

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.23,-0.77

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-1.0,0.0

LoadLimit=500

AllowedWeaponClass=RCN,GP

AttachmentType=SOVIET

ModelNodeName=Centerline_Pylon

PylonMass=40

PylonDragArea=0.02

 

then just create a copy of it, and don't forget to add it to the fuselage in the "SystemName=" section

 

[CenterlineStation2]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=6

StationGroupID=4 note a new group

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.23,-0.77 this is stock height, I'd lower it down .25 to hide inside

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-1.0,0.0

LoadLimit=100 reduced weight to load only light CM dispensers

AllowedWeaponClass=EP

AttachmentType=SOVIET

ModelNodeName=Centerline_Pylon

PylonMass=40

PylonDragArea=0.02

 

As to the CM dispenser pod, use the F104ReconPod, and just use the weapons editor to change it to a dispenser

This is just a real fast build, so it's not quite right...

 

[WeaponData****]

TypeName=SovCMDispenser

FullName=MiG-21R CM Dispenser

ModelName=104Recon

Mass=99.000000

Diameter=0.500000

Length=1.000000

AttachmentType=SOVIET

NationName=SOVIET

StartYear=1969

EndYear=2025

Availability=1

BaseQuantity=24

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1969

ExportEndYear=2025

ExportAvailability=2

WeaponDataType=4

StoreType=2

NumChaff=20

NumFlare=20

EjectPosition=0.000000,-1.000000,0.000000

EjectVelocity=0.000000,-1.000000,0.000000

 

the lod used for the Starfighter's recce pod is acutally one of the napalm canisters, hex edited and repainted.

 

This should get you started.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

ps: actually shouldn't that quote be "Every MiG is a good.....Target????

[Fubar512]

I have few questions.

How add missile rails (like apu-23?) to MiG-23 pylons?

Second - Are there any properly fuel tanks for this MiG type. MiG-23 (and 27 too) carry 800litres fuel tank in center pylon and another 800litres tanks (another model) under wing pylons. Stock weapons and weapons pack does'nt have it. Can someone model this tanks?

 

I use the Su-7's tank. Assuming you havethe latest weapons pack installed, try this...

 

In the MiG-23X_Data.ini, make sure the following entries match:

 

[LeftFuselageStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=3

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-0.40,0.55,-1.16

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=225.0

LengthLimit=2.99

AllowedWeaponClass=IRM,2IR,BOMB,RP

AttachmentType=SOVIET,WP

ModelNodeName=AAM_Pylon_Left

PylonMass=108.9

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=LeftRail01

 

[RightFuselageStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=4

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.40,0.55,-1.16

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=225.0

LengthLimit=2.99

AllowedWeaponClass=IRM,2IR,BOMB,RP

AttachmentType=SOVIET,WP

ModelNodeName=AAM_Pylon_Right

PylonMass=108.9

PylonDragArea=0.02

LaunchRailNodeName=RightRail01

 

[CenterFuselageStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=5

StationGroupID=3

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.00,-0.25,-1.1

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=760.0

AllowedWeaponClass=FT

AttachmentType=SOVIET,WP

ModelNodeName=CenterPylon

PylonMass=108.9

PylonDragArea=0.02

FuelTankName=Tank600_Su7

 

In the loadout.ini, edit to match

 

[AirToAir]

Loadout[01].WeaponType=R-23R

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=R-23R

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Loadout[03].WeaponType=R-60MK<---or R-60T for earlier variants

Loadout[03].Quantity=2

Loadout[03].RackType=APU-62L

Loadout[04].WeaponType=R-60MK<---or R-60T for earlier variants

Loadout[04].Quantity=2

Loadout[04].RackType=APU-62R

Loadout[05].WeaponType=

Loadout[05].Quantity=0

 

 

[AirToAirLongRange]

Loadout[01].WeaponType=R-23R

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=R-23R

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Loadout[03].WeaponType=R-60MK<---or R-60T for earlier variants

Loadout[03].Quantity=2

Loadout[03].RackType=APU-62L

Loadout[04].WeaponType=R-60MK<---or R-60T for earlier variants

Loadout[04].Quantity=2

Loadout[04].RackType=APU-62R

Loadout[05].WeaponType=Tank600_Su7

Loadout[05].Quantity=1

[kukulino]

ps: actually shouldn't that quote be "Every MiG is a good.....Target????

Ooooh, YES! Migs are very good targets, becaouse they are time after time one of the best fighters over the sky

I am goin to try F-104 rec pod.

 

There are two ways to do Mig-21 rec pod, which I read (I mean those ways) on the net pages:

 

1. container R with ECM and flares/chaffs

-- container D with cameras and dispenser (faffs/chlares)

 

2. container R with ECM and flares/chaffs

-- container D with cameras only

 

But i don't know, which is true. I need few days to get right info about that (from Mig-21 pilot).

 

To Fubar512: THANX for photos. There are some photos in czech pages too (links in my previous posts). But for modder we need blueprint (or which name is for it), three view drawning.

Edited October 28, 2007 by kukulino

[kukulino]

I added sixth pylon on Mig-21R (THANX Wrench)

 

This is original ECM pod, which I found in WEAPONDATA.ini:

I edited some values.

 

[WeaponData886]

TypeName=RecPod_D

FullName=Type D EW Pod

ModelName=RecPod_MiG21

Mass=150.000000

Diameter=0.500000

Length=1.000000

AttachmentType=SOVIET,YUGOSLAVIA

NationName=SOVIET

StartYear=1967

EndYear=1990

Availability=1

BaseQuantity=24

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1969

ExportEndYear=1982

ExportAvailability=0

WeaponDataType=4

StoreType=0

JammerStrength=0.000000 <----------BUT THIS IS NOT GOOD I THINK (on the other hand, I don't know, what these values means)

 

Summary from this topic:

1. we have Mig-21MA

2. we have Mig-21R

3. we have Type D EW Pod for Mig-21R (for "R" ONLY!!! And still I do not understand that values)

4. we have RecPod_MiG21 for Mig-21R (but this is standardly in WEAPONDATA.ini)

5. we have sixth pylon for faffs/chlares dispenser (for Mig-21R, hidden in rec pod. This simulate rec pod function in general)

 

AND

6. we have MiG-21R CM Dispenser ----- Wrenchs idea

 

Next plan:

1. use MiG-21R CM Dispenser data and change it to ASO-2I dispenser

 

[WeaponData****]

TypeName=ASO-2I ------changed name

FullName=ASO-2I-E7P -----the same change

ModelName=104Recon

Mass=15 ----------- faffs/chlares weight (I do not know real ASO-2I weight)

Diameter=0.500000

Length=1.000000

AttachmentType=SOVIET

NationName=SOVIET

StartYear=1969

EndYear=2025

Availability=1

BaseQuantity=24

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1969

ExportEndYear=2025

ExportAvailability=2

WeaponDataType=4

StoreType=2

NumChaff=32

NumFlare=32

EjectPosition=0.000000,-1.662000,-2.000000

EjectVelocity=-1.000000,-5.000000,-1.000000

 

Edit sixth pylon on Mig-21R for use ASO-2I faffs/chlares shells only

 

[CenterlineStation2]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=6

StationGroupID=4 note a new group

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.23,-0.05 ------to full hide 104Recon model. we can use smaller model

AttachmentAngles=0.0,-1.0,0.0

LoadLimit=30 ------------------------------ just for ASO-2I

AllowedWeaponClass=EP

AttachmentType=SOVIET

ModelNodeName=Centerline_Pylon

PylonMass=40

PylonDragArea=0.02

 

With this I mean add into Rec pod ASO-2I only.

 

2. For SM SPS-141 I want to find some good model and than will add it into WEAPONDATA.ini (in principle it is the same like rec pod D. But I want model closer to real SM SPS-141)

I want mount SM SPS-141 on original centerline pylon, and ASO-2I "under" sixth pylon on Mig-21MA or MF.

We have 104Recon model for this time as SM SPS-141 (Wrenchs idea).

 

2. Work on Mig-23 series. :yes:

Edited December 8, 2007 by kukulino

[Wrench]

It's set as a 'noise jammer'... the values are how much 'noise' it generates. I'd set it something like 25-30, along the llines of the QRC-160. I'm just guessing, mind you.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[kukulino]

Hi Wrench, THANX again

 

I found similar design like SM SPS-141. It is 800L fuel tank for Mig-21.

It is not the same of course and it is longer and a little bit larger than SM. But It is looking good, I think

 

 

 

Is it possible to turn this tank abou 180 degrees?

Edited October 28, 2007 by kukulino

[ArturR]

Yeah you're right. This tank (in latest weapon pack) is too big

 

and I found photo to see what i'm talking about

Wing tanks have different model. Who can model these tanks?

Edited October 28, 2007 by ArturR

[kukulino]

Is it possible to turn this tank abou 180 degrees?

It was dumb question, I know. I haven't got practise with attachment positions. It tooks me about two hours

 

[kukulino]

This is similar dumb question like previous, but I need help

I want to paint "nose" SM SPS-141 (ex 800L Mig-21 drop tank). But i can't find its .bmp

Can you help me with this? This is one of the final steps on SM SPS-141 container work (improvisation)

 

And how can I do it without paint of a original 800L drop tank? I need paint .bmp just for container (that I mean when I mount 800L drop tank on my Mig, it is not with green nose. When I want to mount SM SPS-141 (the same lod and .bmp I think) there is green nose.

I hope you understand. Just need green "nose" especialy for container

Edited October 29, 2007 by kukulino

[Wrench]

Using a hex editor, open the 800 tank lod, and search 'bmp'.

 

You'll find it used the MiG-11 Recce pod's bmp, so some more hex editing and renaming and repaint will be in order

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[kukulino]

Using a hex editor, open the 800 tank lod, and search 'bmp'.

 

You'll find it used the MiG-11 Recce pod's bmp, so some more hex editing and renaming and repaint will be in order

 

Wrench

kevin stein

Hi Wrench.

THANX. I saw hex editor for first time in your post. OK, I downloaded it, I found RecPod_MiG21.bmp (no Mig-11 as you wrote). But that is all what can I do

I do not understand this program.

[Wrench]

It's not different than what I did to fix the Starfighter tanks. (or to create the 50 gal RAF drop tanks on the Tomahawk, or the 104 recce pod..or...or....)

 

Give me some time, and I'll see what I can do. Good thing you got pics posted for me to work with!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[kukulino]

It's not different than what I did to fix the Starfighter tanks. (or to create the 50 gal RAF drop tanks on the Tomahawk, or the 104 recce pod..or...or....)

 

Give me some time, and I'll see what I can do. Good thing you got pics posted for me to work with!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

I am sorry, as you see I really do not understand

 

Photos:

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/1214...OV-Kontejner-SM

[kukulino]

As the last things for Mig-21R work are its fuel tanx. This is from type 96 (Fubar512s FM I think, I added some thickness. It is not my idea, I saw tickness in big Mig pack by Madcaddie)

 

I am sorry for * becouse I have some problem with BBcode

 

*AftCockpitFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=1

MaxFuelAmount=872.0

SelfHealing=TRUE

FireSuppression=TRUE

MinExtentPosition=-0.55,0.25,-0.26

MaxExtentPosition= 0.55,1.67, 0.34

HasArmor=TRUE

ArmorMaterial=STEEL

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

*FuselageFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=2

MaxFuelAmount=781.3

SelfHealing=TRUE

FireSuppression=TRUE

MinExtentPosition=-0.55,-3.13, 0.50

MaxExtentPosition= 0.55, 0.18, 0.90

HasArmor=TRUE

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

*RightWingFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=3

MaxFuelAmount=268.7

SelfHealing=FALSE

FireSuppression=FALSE

MinExtentPosition=0.64,-2.50,-0.09

MaxExtentPosition=2.13, 1.50, 0.09

HasArmor=TRUE

ArmorMaterial=STEEL

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

*LeftWingFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=3

MaxFuelAmount=268.7

SelfHealing=FALSE

FireSuppression=FALSE

MinExtentPosition=-0.64,-2.50,-0.09

MaxExtentPosition=-2.13, 1.50, 0.09

HasArmor=TRUE

ArmorMaterial=STEEL

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

Total capacity: 2190,7 liters. We need 2800 (in original R version is new 340L tank mounted on larger dorsal section. 2800 - 340 ---- 2460L before new tank installation. 2460L - 2190L ------ 270L difference between real plane and this FM. I can add 135 into every wing tank ). It is not hard .ini edit, I hope.

 

*AftCockpitFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=1

MaxFuelAmount=872.0

SelfHealing=TRUE

FireSuppression=TRUE

MinExtentPosition=-0.55,0.25,-0.26

MaxExtentPosition= 0.55,1.67, 0.34

HasArmor=TRUE

ArmorMaterial=STEEL

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

*FuselageFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=2

MaxFuelAmount=781.3

SelfHealing=TRUE

FireSuppression=TRUE

MinExtentPosition=-0.55,-3.13, 0.50

MaxExtentPosition= 0.55, 0.18, 0.90

HasArmor=TRUE

ArmorMaterial=STEEL

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

*RightWingFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=3

MaxFuelAmount=403 --------------------268 + 135

SelfHealing=FALSE

FireSuppression=FALSE

MinExtentPosition=0.64,-2.50,-0.09

MaxExtentPosition=2.13, 1.50, 0.09

HasArmor=TRUE

ArmorMaterial=STEEL

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

*LeftWingFuelCell*

SystemType=FUEL_TANK

FuelTankID=3

MaxFuelAmount=403 ----------------- 268 + 135

SelfHealing=FALSE

FireSuppression=FALSE

MinExtentPosition=-0.64,-2.50,-0.09

MaxExtentPosition=-2.13, 1.50, 0.09

HasArmor=TRUE

ArmorMaterial=STEEL

Armor*FRONT*.Thickness=2

Armor*REAR*.Thickness=2

Armor*RIGHT*.Thickness=2

Armor*LEFT*.Thickness=2

Armor*TOP*.Thickness=2

Armor*BOTTOM*.Thickness=2

 

There are 2459,3 litres now.

 

We need add next tank with 340L. Or add it into exist? What do you mean?

 

If I can add it as next tank I do not know where.

I do not understand these values:

MinExtentPosition=-0.64,-2.50,-0.09

MaxExtentPosition=-2.13, 1.50, 0.09

 

I am sorry for * because I have some problem with BBcode

Edited October 29, 2007 by kukulino

[FastCargo]

Bringing up an old topic.

 

Are we still needing a SPS-141 pod?

 

FastCargo

[kukulino]

Bringing up an old topic.

 

Are we still needing a SPS-141 pod?

 

FastCargo

Hi FastCargo :yes:

 

We haven't got drawnings (blueprints or how can I say it) SM SPS-141 (for Mig-21) for you . We have drawnings for SPS-141 for Su-17/22 . This version can carry Su-25 too (This bird is WIP):

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=23008 scroll to post number 5.

 

We improvised with 800L drop tank for Mig-21. This model is turned around about 180 degrees on Mig-21 centerline pylon. But it is improvisation, as I sad.

Mig-21 with SM SPS-14 (ex 800l drop tank) is near to upload.

 

So, we haven't got real model of any SPS-141 container version.

 

But every Mig and Su fan will be happy, if you can do it. If you can do both containers, that is great. If you can do one of them, it will be great too

 

So post what you need here, ad we will do everything what we can do for you (I mean more info or better drawnings or more photos):yes:

 

So we can answer on your question: We are still needing a SPS-141 pod

 

THANX for interest FastCargo :fans:

Edited November 20, 2007 by kukulino

[kukulino]

I love MiG/Su fighters too. I spend many times in Woe to take out Western fighters ;-) I have few questions.

How add missile rails (like apu-23?) to MiG-23 pylons? This is old MiG-23mf model from Mirage Factory.

I take him because stock MiG-23 from Thirdwire have some bugs.

Well, there is something like APU-23 pylons on Mig-23M model. You wrote that there are some bugs. So question is how we can add them on MF or ML etc. When I carry R-23 on Mig-23M there are APU-23, if I carry S-24 on wing pylons there are different pylons. I am not home, so I can not search for it in game I will be home next week). But I hope, there is way to do that in the data.ini file.

 

Need some .ini guru, I think

[+nele]

For "flogger", MLD model has some APU's (for R-60).

 

"Fishbed" has four main spine shapes;

 

"F" style, basic series

"PF" teardrop style, PF and PFM (S)

"MF" style-M,SM,R,MF

"BiS" style, BIS and subvariants;

"SMT" humpback with fuel.

 

I think it is impossible to name all subvariants in correct way

"Odd" type include early "MA" without a gun, and its spine seems a little deeper in tail;

More "odd" are some SMT's exported to Iraq, that got BIS-spine.

Some earliest BIS-es had R-13 engine.

 

Both R-13 and R-25 have WEP, but those are not quite "engine-burnout" regimes, but more speed-altitude dependent ones (like combat-plus on Kfirs J-79).

 

Having a flat piece of land nearby is desirable when using WEP, however...

 

MiG-21M is roughly-MF with R-11 engine from PFM, licenced by India. "Paper" max thrust is similar to R-13, but considering humidity, temperature, elevated airstrips and engine bleed for flaps, it was not particulary a good deal.

 

Weapon refits vary from "standard" R-13 quartet, over Egyptian Sparrow/sidewinder combo, Yugoslav quad R-60MK on dual launchers with underwing tanks...

 

Yada, yada, yada... :blush2:

[+Gepard]

Nele, one short correction PFM is not S. The S was the first soviet MiG-21 with RP-22, the M was the export version of the S. Main difference from view is, that the M has GSha-23, the S had not. Then came the SM and for export MF. Then the SMT and for export MT, but nobody wanted to by it.

[gerald14]

Nele, one short correction PFM is not S. The S was the first soviet MiG-21 with RP-22, the M was the export version of the S. Main difference from view is, that the M has GSha-23, the S had not. Then came the SM and for export MF. Then the SMT and for export MT, but nobody wanted to by it.

 

Yes,Gepard the Mig-21S was the first Mig to be fitted with a RP-22 or a RP-22S Sapfir-21 and then

the PFM was fitted with a RP-21MA TsD-30TP Izdeliyie 830MA (which was also fitted in export Mig-21MF's and M's).

But the Exported Mig-21PFM was fitted with RP-21M TsD-30TK Izdeliyie 830M which was less powerful then the Soviet one.Also

the RP-22SMA Sapfir-21M wasn't used in any country until the Mig-21bis was exported. Also the Mig-21MF-75 was fitted with a RP-22 radar also but with a Mig-21bis cockpit layout.

[gerald14]

For "flogger", MLD model has some APU's (for R-60).

 

"Fishbed" has four main spine shapes;

 

"F" style, basic series

"PF" teardrop style, PF and PFM (S)

"MF" style-M,SM,R,MF

"BiS" style, BIS and subvariants;

"SMT" humpback with fuel.

 

I think it is impossible to name all subvariants in correct way

"Odd" type include early "MA" without a gun, and its spine seems a little deeper in tail;

More "odd" are some SMT's exported to Iraq, that got BIS-spine.

Some earliest BIS-es had R-13 engine.

 

Both R-13 and R-25 have WEP, but those are not quite "engine-burnout" regimes, but more speed-altitude dependent ones (like combat-plus on Kfirs J-79).

 

Having a flat piece of land nearby is desirable when using WEP, however...

 

MiG-21M is roughly-MF with R-11 engine from PFM, licenced by India. "Paper" max thrust is similar to R-13, but considering humidity, temperature, elevated airstrips and engine bleed for flaps, it was not particulary a good deal.

 

Weapon refits vary from "standard" R-13 quartet, over Egyptian Sparrow/sidewinder combo, Yugoslav quad R-60MK on dual launchers with underwing tanks...

 

Yada, yada, yada... :blush2:

 

nele, I think you got your info wrong. Mig-21SMT's wasn't exported to Iraq at all!!! The Mig-21SMT was made for PVO use and

home use also. The engine fit still didn't provide enough thrust to keep up with the MiG-21SMT's weight growth, and in fact the MiG-21SMT was something of a disappointment, being built in limited numbers. So the Znamya Trudaya plant built 15 examples of an export version of the MiG-21SMT designated the "MiG-21MT" or "I-96T" in 1971, but they never left the country. So that means that Iraq never had any Mig-21SMT or Mig-21MT was exported. Also the Mig-21SMT was fitted with a

R-13-300 engine not the Mig-21bis. Also that's why the Mig-21bis was fitted with a much powerful R-25-300 engine so they won't make that thrust problem again as the Mig-21SMT!!! The R-25-300 can out climb the F-16A types and the F-14A also.

Iraq did made a deal to get Mig-21bis but some wasn't never delivered. As for the Egyptian Mig-21's they were upgraded to carry Sidewinders not Sparrows ( think) and other western avionics .