Atreides 144 Posted February 3, 2008 Clicky Love the part of the Katana, truly the best sword out there, that if made properly, the blade never needs to be sharpened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longestpants 1 Posted February 3, 2008 Really interesting stuff, thanks for the link. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted February 3, 2008 There is no best sword. There never has been, and there never will be, no matter who made it or where it was made. The katana is probably the most overrated sword I have ever run across. Yep, it's sharp all right...but then so is every combat sword. The katana can cut through a 7" piece of bamboo, but so can a blunt European longsword! The katana is fast. A German-made bastard sword is inherantly faster because of where it is balanced (toward the hilt) and because on average it weighs about 1/2lb less than a katana. A katana can cut through a car. Wait, no it can't, nor can it cut through a fighter plane, or a historic breast plate, or even properly made maille. Do I think it's a bad weapon? Hell no! The katana evolved into what it was just as any other sword, through centuries of use, trial, error and arms evolution. But it sure as heck ain't God's gift to swords either! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Bounder Posted February 3, 2008 "nor can it cut through a fighter plane, or a historic breast plate, or even properly made maille. " maybe not but it can Pearce it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted February 3, 2008 It definatly is a nice sword. Nothing to spaz out about though. What is the smaller version of the Katana called? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted February 3, 2008 Maille, I wouldn't doubt, a breast plate on the other hand, highly unlikely. Maille is vulnerable to thrusts, but the Katana does not taper as much as a straight sword, and doesn't have as easy a time as, say a later bastard or true two-hander when punching through the rings, it's a matter of blade geometry. As for a breast plate, I have yet to see any sword thrust through an all-metal plate (peascod, gothic or otherwise.) Even masters such as Talhoffer and Ringeck (fl. mid-1400's) advocate attacks at the vulnerable points in the harness, utilizing Halbschwert (half-sword, to increase maneuverability) or the mordtschlag (using the hilt as a mace or hammer to crash down on the opposing man's helm) because a sword simply could not defeat the plates with the blade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted February 3, 2008 Smaller sword is the wakizashi. Then there's the tanto, the dagger. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted February 3, 2008 (edited) Smaller sword is the wakizashi. Then there's the tanto, the dagger. Thanks! I guess I have a Wakizashi then. Guess I also have a Type 95 shin gunto. Edited February 3, 2008 by JA 37 Viggen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,847 Posted February 4, 2008 You're all wrong... The sharpest thing in the is.... wait for it... wait for it.... a fart. It goes right through your pants, and dosent' leave a hole Wrench kevin stein Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Zurawski 33 Posted February 4, 2008 You're all wrong... The sharpest thing in the is.... wait for it... wait for it.... a fart. It goes right through your pants, and doesn't' leave a hole Wrench Kevin Stein ... Groan. I can't even muster a witty retort for that one. Question remains. "Which is more silent and deadly... One of Wrenches farts or a well made and perfectly balanced sword?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted February 4, 2008 Well, I mean, if you're going for an area effect, I think the answer is pretty obvious, it's the gas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mannie 21 Posted February 4, 2008 What is it with you guys? No sword in the world can beat my .357 magnum. Israeli military industries desert eagle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sixgun 0 Posted February 4, 2008 I am a student of the Japanese sword (shinkendo), and I have several katanas. I also have several European swords, including rapiers and broadswords. I have to say that the Japanese sword is probably the best cutting sword in the world. The main reason for this is that the curvature of the blade is such that it always presents a cutting angle (not square on) to the target. The other reason is that the forging and shaping methods leave the cutting edge very hard, while letting the body of the blade be softer and thus more able to withstand shock and return to true. European blades are historically mono-tempered to a somewhat lower hardness in order to remain flexible. Most well made katanas exhibit a superb balance at about 4.5"-5.5" from the "tsuba" or hilt. At far as the armor piercing ability of the Katana, it is quite impressive.The fact that the spine of the blade remains the same thickness until the last 1-2 inches of the blade allows for great tip strength. Thrusts against plate-mail, however, are generally ill advised due to the curved plates' ability to deflect a thrust that is not right angles to the plate. http://www.chenessinc.com/videos/steelchair.wmv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted February 4, 2008 What is it with you guys? No sword in the world can beat my .357 magnum. Israeli military industries desert eagle You mean this? OUCH! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted February 4, 2008 I really just can't agree, because there are so many swords to compare the katana to, and across a long timeline. It'll cut better than the tapered straight sword, like a bastard or late longsword because of the design of the blade, (wide, flat blades cut better than thin ones, but are poorer at thrusts) but that's not to say straight swords can't cut well, or better against different materials. As for forging and shaping methods, Europe has gone through all sorts of techniques, from "damascus" pattern welding, to the folding so commonly associated with the katana, to twisting in a "false damascine" pattern of soft and hard steel, to later forges made of one high-quality bar of steel. But compare the cutting capacity of, say a falchion, grossemesser or the kriegsmesser, or a non-european blade such as a shamshir, and they'll cut similarly. http://www.thearma.org/Videos/NTCvids/test...ndmaterials.htm Check some of the test-cutting videos from the International Gathering in 2003. With a flick at the wrist, a messer cuts through a rolled straw mat, but fails to damage the maille, while maintaining the blade edge without damage. A well-made sword should hold its edge when striking even a metal target regardless of where it was made, Europe, Asia or otherwise and punching through a steel chair is no surprise to me, as I can get my two-hander's parrying hooks through a thin steel target without damaging them. Modern SCA armor or soft steel is not a good show of penetrating power. Unfortunately, very few people are willing to drop a thousand bucks+ on a well-made breastplate for test-to-destruction purposes. I know I wouldn't! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sixgun 0 Posted February 4, 2008 It's true, a properly forged and sharpened European blade will cut really well. I enjoyed the vids of Hank Reinhardt cutting shipping tubes. I have a couple of his blades... The hardest cut I have made to date was a cardboard carpet roll tube that they use to hold large spools of area carpet. They are about 6" diameter and have walls of approximate 3/8" thickness. If your blade angle isn't just right, you're not going to get through. My bias towards the Japanese blade comes from its combination of strength, quick handling, and cutting ability. Sure a Grosse Messer will cut targets as easily if not more so, but when it comes to multiple cuts, a katana is faster and it's edge will last longer. There are few other sword designs that compare...a relatively short blade (under 30") with a two handed grip. Aesthetics are another area where the katana shines. Plus, there's something to be said for a design that has basically remained the same for over 600 years. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted February 4, 2008 (edited) My God, the first civilized person I've ever run into with the East/West sword debate! I salute you sir, and agree, "I guess we will have to agree to disagree." *Edit: I say "civilized" because I normally end up trying to explain that every blade can cut to anime fanboys, vehimately backing the sword using references to shows, rather than experience, "t3h catana iz t3h uber 1337 hax" types... Edited February 4, 2008 by Caesar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Zurawski 33 Posted February 5, 2008 "Having accepted that their learned opinions differ, Sixgun and Caesar turn their attention to steak knives"... Just ribbing you guys! Despite my keen interest in swords, I must confess to know little to nothing. I have inherited from my father a Japanese officers sword (apparently justified by the hilt and scabbard per my late father)... and what he and I thought was a US Cavalry sword that he pulled from a condemed pole barn when he was a teen. We did a little research on the D-guard and the manufacturer's stamp in the ricasso, but came away with nothing. Cool stuff all the same! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted February 5, 2008 From the little I know of Japanese swords, I will say Zur that they WWII sword you have is probobly a Type 94 or a Type 95. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Zurawski 33 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) From the little I know of Japanese swords, I will say Zur that they WWII sword you have is probobly a Type 94 or a Type 95. Definitely was a 94 or 95... non-commissioned officer sword. Edited February 5, 2008 by Zurawski Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted February 5, 2008 Did it look like this? That is a Type 95. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...le-p1000712.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sixgun 0 Posted February 5, 2008 I have a Kai-gunto...my first Japanese blade purchase...anyone know what that is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Zurawski 33 Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Did it look like this? That is a Type 95. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...le-p1000712.jpg Like that, except the hand guard was shaped like a flower... Edited February 5, 2008 by Zurawski Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted February 5, 2008 If by flower you mean Cherry Blossom then it is the Type 94. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted February 5, 2008 Proud owner of a two-hander (nowadays, not historically, called "Zweihander") here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
