Bought FE EP finally

[FalconC45 162]

I was wondering which mods are playable in the EP? I know of Poppy's FM tweaks but any updated plane addons?

 

Falcon

[+Tailspin 3]

Look for Peter01's FM updates for the EP. Any of those planes with Peter's FMs added will work fine. If it doesn't say "updated for the Expansion Pack" or something to that effect then it may or may not work with the EP. Some older planes may "fly" OK for the player but the AI may not perform up to EP standards. Of course some mods may not require updates....depends on the mod I suppose. Clear as mud, huh?

[FalconC45 162]

Whoops I meant Peter's not Poppy's :fool: Anyway yeah clear as mud .

 

Falcon

[+peter01 2]

Thought I'd add my bit (a long bit really ) about the new Flight Engine and compatability issues.

 

I know lots play TKs other games, so first, just want to say although Wings over Israel uses the same new Flight Engine as the First Eagles Expansion Pack, in terms of pre versus new Flight Engine FM issues/problems, they are chalk and cheese.

 

I tried WOI (great game, BTW), loaded some earlier user-made FMs for the previous Flight Engine and did some FMs too :yes: (its very easy modding these, as it is modding TKs WOI FMs too). Basically the early FMs work pretty well in the new game. To get them to TKs WOI standard can be done progressively. New AI data (or using TKs existing default stuff) is probably essential, changing performance a bit (pitch and especially roll) would be advisable. You wouldn't really even need to redo the stalls. To go the whole hog, redo them with the new stuff, it is better....but I have to say its not difficult or complex.

 

I don't mean to say that doing jet FMs is easy - the avionics is far more complex, theres more in the jet FMs like lift devices, various power mechanisms, and of course the "thrill" and challenge is to try to accurately model correct and published performance data - not trivial. BUT, in terms of porting/modding existing FMs, its easy. TK has said as much on his WOI forum, and its true.

 

FE on the other hand.....ahhhhhhhh!!!! .......its completely different. I think I understand why, but won't try to explain. Suffice to say, my guess is it was also quite a challenge for TK as well.

 

FE FMs compatablity.......

 

You shouldn't use pre-EP FMs. They fly like c**p in the EP. The AI is completely different and also c**p. Stalls won't work, and are too low anyway. Some pre-EP FMs may also cause issues with your game - the new Flight Engine is very sensitive to some things we have done in FE.

 

If you really have to use the pre-EP FMs, you know, gotta have the N11 etc, this is what you can do. Delete the AI data section in the FM - it will then use TKs default (in the Aircraftobject.ini). In the control surfaces section at end of data ini increase roll (cldc) and pitch (cmdc) numbers by 20-30% to get equivalent EP performance, ie, less sluggish. Stalls won't work properly at all, and the plane will still fly like c**p, but at least performance wise and as AI they will be similar to TKs.

 

Needless to say I don't recommend this. If you want to fly all the planes, you are better off just sticking to the pre-EP game. They all work well in that environment.

 

So whats the best solution for the EP??? Actually, there is only one..........to do all the FMs from scratch.

 

You can't use anything from the pre-EP game. At all. It doesn't work. This is a mistake I made several times along the way... the pre and EP FMs seem similar, but they aren't.

 

Really really unfortunately, doing all of them again is not easy - actually its far harder than it should be IMO. Its not just the sheer number of addon planes. Its also the complexity (or perhaps more accurately, limitations) of the new Flight Engine as it applies to First Eagles. They are very hard and time consuming to do - at least 5 to 10 times as long to do a good one compared to pre-EP FMs. Of course this may get easier over time, with experience, and with new ways of doing FMs that can be then reused etc, but still......at the moment, I spend hours on hours changing a few numbers by miniscule amounts with this either "making or breaking" the FM. Its tricky.... almost unbelievably so. It was not like this at all before.

 

Yes, thats right, you guessed it, I am very frustrated by it all. And I don't have the time I had last year.

 

On a more positive side, if the EP FMs are done well, they are lots better than the previous game. ...and an real dream to fly IMO. And of course the AI are better, and we have stalls/spins. I also noticed in WOI, TK has introduced a seemingly true torque variable for gyro stuff, I presume, though it isn't yet enabled, so maybe he's going to introduce this to FE - no point really in WOI?

 

So maybe its worth continuing, pursuing.

 

I am progressing redoing all the EP FMs I have uploaded, and some new ones, as well as optimising the ai stuff for TKs planes - of TKs, some are redone, and the current versions are definitely better than previously uploaded, and maybe even better than TKs for feel - obviously better in terms of relative performance and AI .

 

99% there, but that 1% seems to be taking forever... And then there are all the others to be done!!

 

But, the current crop do look good, to me at least.

 

To be honest, have had reservations about all this, uploading anything anymore, and still have. So not promising anything. But to me the game is a mess FM-wise at the moment, it may be getting easier for me doing FMs for the EP, and I probably will do it all for myself at least in the end in any case - I do like the game, I do like the WW1 period, and I love all the addon models we have.

Edited March 11, 2008 by peter01

[Uriah 1]

Peter01,

 

it is good to hear from you on what is going on with all the work needed for doing fm for the new EP. I have the impression you are the only one doing fm for the EP standard. A few questions: Are you changing the FM for the planes that TK has made or just for the planes that modders have made?

 

Do you feel like doing an online game against each other?

 

Uriah

[+peter01 2]

I have the impression you are the only one doing fm for the EP standard.

Yes I am - its a bit lonely

 

Are you changing the FM for the planes that TK has made or just for the planes that modders have made?

TKs too. Some are underdone performance wise.

 

Do you feel like doing an online game against each other?

How is online going? Have't heard a lot about this lately.

[themightysrc 5]

Peter,

 

I've downloaded oodles of user-generated aircraft, campaigns and so forth, and I was wondering if you'd care to proffer an opinion about adding in your flight model into that heady mix. I didn't get the FE expansion pack - I could see no point, and various posters seemed to think it was only of minimal benefit. So, if I download and install your FM, would I be right in thinking that I'll shoot down even fewer aircraft than I do now, and end up getting shot down even more?

 

Biggles' continued existence depends on your answer!

 

Cheers,

 

Si

[Firecage 1]

TKs too. Some are underdone performance wise.

 

Hey Peter...

 

Just my 2 cents but I feel the albs New FM still needs a bit more climb rate maybe. I dont really see the albs winning a turn fight iwth the Camels but I was thinking the drag on lift surface could be looked at? I was seeing the albs as a bit more Z and B than a camel but a bit less than the spads of its time.

 

I agree the planes from Pre Exp pack just dont work right. I wanted ot get a new plane fest going but the fights are a bit wierd in the Per Exp. planes.

 

One thing I found was the bombers worked ok from the per exp pack in the new FM. I didnt fly one but as AI they were doing pretty good on escorts and all.

 

Great job on all the FMs your updating. I for one think ya for taking the time to do them all.

[+peter01 2]

Peter,

 

I've downloaded oodles of user-generated aircraft, campaigns and so forth, and I was wondering if you'd care to proffer an opinion about adding in your flight model into that heady mix. I didn't get the FE expansion pack - I could see no point, and various posters seemed to think it was only of minimal benefit. So, if I download and install your FM, would I be right in thinking that I'll shoot down even fewer aircraft than I do now, and end up getting shot down even more?

 

Biggles' continued existence depends on your answer!

 

Cheers,

 

Si

 

Hi themightysrc,

 

Probably wise decision about the EP at this point in time... I wonder myself.

 

Yes, I can say, hand on heart, its ratchets the difficulty level up very considerably. Among the best AI in any flight sim. The only complaint you could really make is that it may be too tough,eg, in a campaign...you wouldn't survive long. See below for more on this.

 

There are two other benefits using my FMs for the pre-Expansion pack game:

 

- there is a consistency in plane performance from early 1915 right thru to the end of war. In some ways that was my major achievement....it wasn't there at all initially. So, you know, the Dh2 is better than the Fokker E3, not as good as the Alb D2, and the AlbD3 is better than the AlbD2 etc.

 

- the game had huge issues with the AI flying properly (fixed in EP) - they would stall, loop, go in circles. My FMs pretty well were built to fix this aspect, and it did. I must have spent about 90% of my time on the FMs making sure that they didn't do all this.

 

Its easy to install these FMs, just a couple of minutes. Probably wise to back up your aircraft folder before doing this. Congrats on getting all the other stuff, its a huge effort.

 

On a more general note, they are consistent only in Hard FM mode. And hard is hardly hard in that game. Stalls didn't work well in that game (again fixed in EP), so stalls were kept low. I'd also recommend you change the mg effectiveness - it improves the game significantly too - there's a thread somewhere here on this. If you are interested and can't find it, I can give you my files or a link to the thread.

 

Re FE and where it stands in the crowd (I read some of your previous posts), its a great game, but limited.

 

Its great in all the planes we have, the quality of the planes/cockpits, easy to run on most computers, huge dogfights, fantastic AI, very good FMs (due to TKs excellent Flight Engine, its hugely more sophisticated than RBD3 and OFF for example).

 

Its pretty woeful on campaigns, tho a couple Charles did (cambrai etc) are decent. Its just not a strong point in FE. I mainly play custom missions (easy to do say 12 Alb D3s versus 12 Dh2s, or any combination of numbers and planes), with quick missions and instant action for variety. In the campaign respect, and hence perhaps overall immersion, RBD3 and OFF leave FE for dead. I play both FE and OFF. Neither provides it all. But each does one part well. Seemss like you play RBD3, which overall is the best, just dated, unfortunately - a truly great game in its time.

 

Cheers

Edited March 13, 2008 by peter01

[+peter01 2]

Hey Peter...

 

Just my 2 cents but I feel the albs New FM still needs a bit more climb rate maybe. I dont really see the albs winning a turn fight iwth the Camels but I was thinking the drag on lift surface could be looked at? I was seeing the albs as a bit more Z and B than a camel but a bit less than the spads of its time.

 

I agree the planes from Pre Exp pack just dont work right. I wanted ot get a new plane fest going but the fights are a bit wierd in the Per Exp. planes.

 

One thing I found was the bombers worked ok from the per exp pack in the new FM. I didnt fly one but as AI they were doing pretty good on escorts and all.

 

Great job on all the FMs your updating. I for one think ya for taking the time to do them all.

 

He he, I already increased the climb on TKs originals by about 30% or more!......it was the major reason for redoing them.

 

Appreciate your comments and its good to discuss, we don't seem to do this much on this forum, ie, comparative performance of planes, historically and in game. I don't know why.

 

So this time, the long story . Happy to be contradicted....just my opinion. Okay?

 

The Albs didn't climb well. The camel outclimbed the AlbD3 (160hp) by about 20 % (a comparatively significant advantage), the later Alb D3s with bigger engines were not any better in this respect and certainly less manoeuvrable. The Alb Dvs had even less climb than the D3s. Less agile too.

 

Somehow there is a perception that Albs climbed well, but say, didn't roll well. Its how I've seen them done often. I think its the converse.

 

The Alb D3 160 hp was probably the best Alb. But it had structural problems (I doubt many pilots dived this plane, tho the OAW built version apparently didn't suffer structural failures), and bigger engines meant better performance at higher altitudes and higher ceilings - that was where the advantage was from mid 1917, and the reason heavy inline engines of increasing power were used for Albs, and indeed every other plane on both sides. Rotaries didn't perform well at altitude - some planes with rotaries were the exception, largely due to very low wing loads (hence likely easy to fly, low stalls and very agile planes too - Pup, Snipe, Hanriot).

 

So i doubt ZnB tactices were used by Alb pilots, say compared to se5 and Spad pilots. The AlbDvs had structural problems too.

 

I have tested the Albs extensively in the game. You can on initial pass or with some speed gathered, just outclimb a camel, only just. And use that to win a dogfight. But if the Camel gets on your tail, which it will in an turning fight, its almost impossible to shake them. So the Albs can beat a camel. They can't outclimb the Se5 and Spad, but can with some difficulty out-manoeuvre them. Flying the Albs against this opposition is hard, but really I have survived many dogfights (currently ALbs are my favourites), but its always a challenge. It probably was too in real life. BTW, they are quite ferocious AI if you underestimate them.

 

What you haven't seen, is that the Alb D3 completely dominates the earlier allied planes, with maybe only the Nieup 17 a challenge. Tripe and Pup are later planes, both better. I have all the other stuff going, whether I ever (I mean that) finish the early planes is another matter. At moment as AI for me they are fine, and I need them for testing.

 

I agree about multi-engined bombers, they seem to work okay in the EP. Don't feel great to fly, but yep, as AI they are fine.

 

Cheers

Edited March 13, 2008 by peter01

[guitarclassic55 0]

Its great in all the planes we have, the quality of the planes/cockpits, easy to run on most computers, huge dogfights, fantastic AI, very good FMs (due to TKs excellent Flight Engine, its hugely more sophisticated than RBD3 and OFF for example).

 

Its pretty woeful on campaigns, tho a couple Charles did (cambrai etc) are decent. Its just not a strong point in FE. I mainly play custom missions (easy to do say 12 Alb D3s versus 12 Dh2s, or any combination of numbers and planes), with quick missions and instant action for variety. In the campaign respect, and hence perhaps overall immersion, RBD3 and OFF leave FE for dead. I play both FE and OFF. Neither provides it all. But each does one part well. Seemss like you play RBD3, which overall is the best, just dated, unfortunately - a truly great game in its time.

 

Cheers

 

Two questions, to peter01 and anyone else interested...

 

1) Would it be possible to add a front-end campaign program to FE, similar to OFF? Would that not be sort of the best of both worlds? I'm not discounting the fact that it would be a major major undertaking...

 

2) Is my best bet at the moment for playing early war missions and campaigns to do another install of the original FE and forget the EP? I'd like to start early on and advance through the war. I noticed Firecage has a campaign out that does that...? Of course I'd use your pre-EP FMs, peter01.

 

Thanks,

 

Guitarclassic55

[+peter01 2]

Oops, sorry, forgot Firecage's campaigns. :blush2: Yes, they are as good as it gets for campaigns in FE. I know a lot of people enjoyed them. But try Charles' ones as well - he did two, I think.

 

1) Would be a large undertaking, maybe not possible without access to the code?? But who knows.

 

2) Yes, for the present. It will change, but may take some time. I think most of us were quite happy with the game as it was previously - it worked well. We just hoped TK would improve stalls and a few other things, not, you know, change everything!. But if you now fly the EP, its sorta hard to fly the planes in the previous version, they are quite different. For early war, that may be okay tho...

 

Cheers

[+Tailspin 3]

I have very mixed emotions about the EP. It brought some needed improvements yet "fixed" (ie, broke ) some things that didn't need fixing. Completely eliminated force downs or soft landings. Screwed up the horizon. Didn't get rid of or even introduced a couple of bugs in the AI routines. And, IMHO, FMs are overdone in areas like roll and turn rates making it actually too easy to fly certain planes despite the new stall/spin routines. The Camel is a good example.

 

I could very easily get used to flying the "old" version of FE again.

[guitarclassic55 0]

1) Would be a large undertaking, maybe not possible without access to the code?? But who knows.

 

True enough. I guess we're all looking for the perfect WWI sim. I recently downloaded and played the original Red Baron on DosBox, mainly to hear the music again and remember what it was that got me hooked in the first place.

 

2) Yes, for the present. It will change, but may take some time. I think most of us were quite happy with the game as it was previously - it worked well. We just hoped TK would improve stalls and a few other things, not, you know, change everything!. But if you now fly the EP, its sorta hard to fly the planes in the previous version, they are quite different. For early war, that may be okay tho...

 

Oops, sorry, forgot Firecage's campaigns. :blush2: Yes, they are as good as it gets for campaigns in FE. I know a lot of people enjoyed them. But try Charles' ones as well - he did two, I think.

 

Honestly, I've only had FE for a week now, the EP for a day less. I flew for a day in FE and I've probably flown a total of 30 minutes in EP... and if I use the next waypoint key, my flights usually last about a minute before I get shot out of the sky ... :-)

 

So I think I'll revert to the former version, mainly because I want to fly early-war aircraft in Firecage's campaign... I'll also try Charles's two 1917 campaigns, they look good. Are your FMs for user-made planes available in one spot, or will I need to download several files? I know nothing about using custom planes or anything yet but I'm sure I'll figure it out as I tackle it. Looking forward to it. Thanks for your help.

 

Guitarclassic55

[guitarclassic55 0]

I have very mixed emotions about the EP. It brought some needed improvements yet "fixed" (ie, broke ) some things that didn't need fixing. Completely eliminated force downs or soft landings. Screwed up the horizon. Didn't get rid of or even introduced a couple of bugs in the AI routines. And, IMHO, FMs are overdone in areas like roll and turn rates making it actually too easy to fly certain planes despite the new stall/spin routines. The Camel is a good example.

 

I could very easily get used to flying the "old" version of FE again.

 

I'm sold, then... you guys seem really torn and definitely leaning to the pre-EP version. I noticed the horizon problem, too, and the slower frame rates. Are the INI changes for the pre-EP version recommended? My main hesitation is all the work it's going to take just getting everything set up. Probably nothing compared to the work it took on your FMs, peter01, and your terrain and object enhancements, Tailspin... so I'll stop complaining! I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again for your input.

 

Guitarclassic55

[guitarclassic55 0]

Forgot one thing, should I patch the original version? Thanks.

[+peter01 2]

I have very mixed emotions about the EP. It brought some needed improvements yet "fixed" (ie, broke ) some things that didn't need fixing. Completely eliminated force downs or soft landings. Screwed up the horizon. Didn't get rid of or even introduced a couple of bugs in the AI routines. And, IMHO, FMs are overdone in areas like roll and turn rates making it actually too easy to fly certain planes despite the new stall/spin routines. The Camel is a good example.

 

I could very easily get used to flying the "old" version of FE again.

 

Well now we're discussing it in some depth, maybe its time to clarify things.

 

The pre-EP FMs work fine in the EP. Huh? Yes they do, exactly like they did in the pre-EP game, no difference. The environment hasn't changed. The reason I say they feel like c**p is a relative thing - its compared to the new FMs. I can't fly one then the other, the difference to me is too great - but doing FMs is a matter of feel, not numbers, so I'm very sensitive to that, ya know. Others may find it okay. Its why some are saying you can use the previous FMs in the EP.

 

What has changed in the EP (and WOI for that matter) is how TK does the FMs. There are two parts to this. First the forces on the planes are streamlined/done differently and it gives a smoother feel, a lightness, that makes pre-EP FMs feel sluggish. Secondly, as you pointed out, roll and turn is better in the EP, but maybe only 10% or a bit more. I suggest 20% or so increases to offset the sluggish feel on the first point, but really, the plane will then perform better comparatively. Its over compensation if you like.

 

Stalls of course are different, but pre-EP FM stalls should be ok. I say should, because they may not have been done properly, it wasn't important at that time, and they certainly are low.

 

How the AI works has changed. I have no idea what exactly, but its different. Some parameters that worked before don't work anymore, some seem to work differently. You can't use the old ones, but you can say use TKs default ones.

 

This new FM - perhaps best to not talk of a new Flight Engine, its actually the same, except for stalls, damage modelling etc etc etc ... a lot of etc so it is a new Flight Engine , but the environment the plane flies in, the forces on it, are the same - was, without a doubt, developed for the TKs jet sims, not for FE. Just like the first version of FE was based on his previous jet games, and again with different FMs to simulate the early period. TKs Flight Engine/FMs are exceptionally good to be able to adapt to all these periods!

 

Another thing about the new style FM, is that its not complete. TK probably has minimised the changes to minimise the problem of older FMs not working well together with his new FMs - he knows that there is a huge number of FMs done for his jet games over the years, so he's minimised/selected how he's done it. Because that was his aim, for WOI, porting older FMs isn't really difficult. Some difficulties, but not that bad.

 

Its different for FE, because the way FMs were done for the pre-EP FE was different naturally for WW1 planes to the previous jet games FMs for jet planes. Duh, sounds stupid, sorry, its hard explaining. And now its different to what it was, and different of course to the current jet game (WOI) again. But the path isn't the same for preEP to EP as with the jet FMs, and he didn't/couldn't then make it such that the transition of older FMs to the new type of ones as easy probably for both FE and the jet FMs, because the starting and ending position/path of each is different. Does that make sense?

 

He made the right choice of course, but to our detriment. The difference in pre-EP RMs and EP FMs is significant, and there is no easy migration or mods. But I wonder...he could have just done the EP FMs the same as before, stalls/AI different, is all.....I'm not sure why he actually felt he needed to do it. Good reasons no doubt, but why? More changes coming? For stalls to work effectively? Thinks its far better? Sell more? ???

 

In addition, the new syle FM was developed for the jet games, not FE. It gives the planes more feel, and it makes them smoother at the same time. Good for jets...not so good for WW1 planes really. However, having said that he's done some truly wonderful/difficult work on the WW1 FMs, and the result is you can produce very nice FMs, albeit with considerable difficulty. Probably it will get easier, TK will show other ways of doing it, add more things etc..but at the moment its not easy simulating WW1 planes in this style. Too smooth...and when you try to make it less smooth, you very quickly run into limitations and problems. Again, not so with the jet FMs. No problems at all.

 

Finally, TK has said that this a transition FM .... another will come down the track, with Vista. He's indicated that transition (existing FMs to new FM style) will be more difficult. I hate to think what this means for FE FMs, when he was talking about jet FMs, given the more difficult transition we have now. So, you have to wonder....

 

And some questions I have asked myself ...

 

Is the new FM the best one for FE? Are they that much better than the old ones, because it is probably far far easier just redoing stalls and AI for the pre-EP FMs and using them in the EP. And redo the Camel and Dr1 as per the old style - not as stupid as it sounds, the continous climb on these is driving me nuts .

 

Is it worth redoing all the FMs to find TK releases a new type FM (on the other hand, he may not bother for FE...EP1 may be the first and the last EP). The answer to this is definitely not, at least right now. Not for me, anyway. I won't be going back and doing them all (you never know tho). Some more yes, maybe, but all the way back...no.

 

 

Hidden in this are a whole range of choices - for me, for everyone.

 

Perhaps its best to just redo the AI and stalls on the pre EP FMs for say the 1915- mid 1916 period and use that in a install of a EP game. For earlier type planes its viable, they should feel different. Its a far easier solution. The problem is mailny the transition planes, the Halb/Dh2/N11, but not too many. Still, starting to sound complex.

 

Maybe redo stalls, AI for all pre-EP FMs. Just use that. Thats simpler. Redo camel/dr1.

 

Just move all the stuff from the pre-EP game to the EP game. It will work pretty much as before tho AI stuff should change. This is what basically will happen to those that haven't purchased the EP, but upgrade when TK makes the improvements available via a patch.

 

Or move on, and do what you can with this one in terms of new FMs?

 

The last is basically what I thought, but I have to say I'm having second thoughts about it all.

 

I'd be interested what others think. Specifically about the new FMs. Are they better? Much better/marginally better?

 

Obviously from a point of view of moving forward going with the EP is the way to go, but, really, realistically, its probably not going to go too far doing all new FMs.

 

Arrrggg...all this probably makes little sense.

Edited March 13, 2008 by peter01

[+Tailspin 3]

Forgot one thing, should I patch the original version? Thanks.

 

Yes. Patch up to the last patch for First Eagles. I have both versions FE and FE/EP.

 

Regarding the EP. I was just really "settled in" and happy with the pre-EP game. Maybe I'm just resistant to change. I did try a couple of the old planes in EP and thought the AI was doing strange stuff like a lot of climbing straight up, hanging on their props, stalling, etc. Perhaps, Peter, you could provide some pointers to adapting the old planes, AI data wise...if necessary, to the EP. You know, advise what to change and what to look for so if we wanted, we could change it ourselves and take some of the load off of yourself. I don't know though. It may not be that easy?

[guitarclassic55 0]

Yes. Patch up to the last patch for First Eagles. I have both versions FE and FE/EP.

 

Thanks, Tailspin. Will do. I'm going to keep my install of FE/EP, but until things get sorted out better I'm going to give original FE with everyone's mods, planes, etc. a thorough try.

 

Peter, sounds exhausting doing all that work and then being torn between the two variants. Looking forward to experiencing your work, getting that incremental increase in performance from aircraft to aircraft as they were introduced, as you mentioned earlier.

[+peter01 2]

The first is an easy one, and is one of the AI changes in EP. BTW, these changes should be done for the Hanriot too.

 

In the [AIData] section, change the line

 

PitchForAltitude=0.01 (or a similar number)

 

to

 

PitchForAltitude=0.0002 for planes with good pitch, ie turn, eg, hanriot

 

PitchForAltitude=0.0008 for planes with less pitch

 

Sometimes, but rarely, somewhere in between (stock camel FM is 0.0004, but I think it should be less) . This fixes the problem you raised sometime ago (with N28) of Autopilot climbing way from the squadron plus what you just wrote, and if its a problem with TKs stock ones, reduce that number for them as well. It doesn't affect anything else. To test, if inclined, do a test flight with a high waypoint, check to see if autopilot climbs around 60mph. If the number is too high, it will try to climb too steeply, speed dropping to stall speed etc.

 

The following variables should always be set to these values (they wouldn't in pre-EP)

 

MinRollHeading=5.0

MaxRollForHeading=15.0

 

If not set to these values, the AI/autopilot will roll wildly, especially climbing, or alternately not use roll climbing at all - problem keeping formation.

 

The rest are not that simple, but are important. I'll have a look at it, but there isn't actually a set of numbers that work well...each plane needs to be tested, optimised, and earlier planes generally should behave differently, eg, Fokker Es shouldn't roll around the place like Tripes.

 

Another option is to use TKs default values, either by deleting the [AIData] section from the data ini completely (defaulting to that in the Aircraftobject.ini), or copying that to data ini. BUT, PitchForAltitude= should be less then default (PitchForAltitude=0.00087, I think) for planes that have good pitch. It may have been a problem with the stock Fokker Dr1/Camel FMs. But again, TKs default values won't work/weren't designed for the early planes.

Edited March 13, 2008 by peter01

[+Tailspin 3]

Forgot to add, guitarclassic55, that the last patch for FE fixes most of the issues that the original "Ini tweaks" were intended for.

[+peter01 2]

Are your FMs for user-made planes available in one spot, or will I need to download several files? I know nothing about using custom planes or anything yet but I'm sure I'll figure it out as I tackle it. Looking forward to it. Thanks for your help.

 

Guitarclassic55

Sorry guitarclassic55, got carried away with the other stuff.

 

There are about 3 files, in download section here http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...amp;showcat=213

 

easy to install - just drop the "Aircraft" Folder in the zip into your "Objects" directory. You do need all the 3D models first , thats the hard work. If you don't have them all its ok, dropping the above file will just create a aircraft specific folders with the data ini only, but it won't cause a problem.

[+Tailspin 3]

Thanks for the tips Peter.

[+peter01 2]

Peter, sounds exhausting doing all that work and then being torn between the two variants. Looking forward to experiencing your work, getting that incremental increase in performance from aircraft to aircraft as they were introduced, as you mentioned earlier.

 

Thanks, sorry you inadvertently got caught up in all this...its been simmering within me for the past couple of months.

 

That performance improvement was a huge undertaking - you have to test every plane against most other planes, then change and redo the FMs. There must be 60. And you have to have a starting point and a finishing point (basically TKs models), with everything fitting nicely inbetween, from Morane L to the Snipe.

Edited March 14, 2008 by peter01

[+Tailspin 3]

Yes, sorry for running off track. Didn't mean to hijack your thread, Falcon.

 

 

edit: Oooops...Sorry Falcon, it was your thread wasn't it?